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Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on February 07, 2018, 09:12:43 pmQuote from: selby on February 07, 2018, 07:48:49 pmBilly I accept everything you say about people being misled, and that's part of the problem, there are older generations that feel they were misled into voting to join something that morphed into something completely different to what they voted to join. They are the ones that were lied to, and have had to accept everything since, not all bad admittedly, but not what they voted for. The big difference is , their generation respected the vote once declared, something this generation seem incapable of doing. And the politicians who disagreed, joined forces in parliament to make joining work, something else the present generation could learn.The people who voted in the 1975 referendum didn't vote to join anything, they voted for the status quo as it was at that time, which is what they got. Where the UK went in the EU after that was decided by the successive UK governments that were also voted for by the British public.I am not sure that I agree with that but maybe I misunderstand what you are sayingIn 75 I voted against joining the Common Market (quite ironic given I am a remainer now) but it seemed that the Vote was largely made on Party Lines and so it was YEARS and I do mean YEARS till I ever met anyone that voted YES to joiningSo I believe I voted NOT to join the Common Market. Ironically the Tories won that Vote and since then half of them have pulled themselves apart time and again trying to get us back out and finally they have done it - and again ironically a lot of Labour Party voters helped them as they voted "Leave"
Quote from: selby on February 07, 2018, 07:48:49 pmBilly I accept everything you say about people being misled, and that's part of the problem, there are older generations that feel they were misled into voting to join something that morphed into something completely different to what they voted to join. They are the ones that were lied to, and have had to accept everything since, not all bad admittedly, but not what they voted for. The big difference is , their generation respected the vote once declared, something this generation seem incapable of doing. And the politicians who disagreed, joined forces in parliament to make joining work, something else the present generation could learn.The people who voted in the 1975 referendum didn't vote to join anything, they voted for the status quo as it was at that time, which is what they got. Where the UK went in the EU after that was decided by the successive UK governments that were also voted for by the British public.
Billy I accept everything you say about people being misled, and that's part of the problem, there are older generations that feel they were misled into voting to join something that morphed into something completely different to what they voted to join. They are the ones that were lied to, and have had to accept everything since, not all bad admittedly, but not what they voted for. The big difference is , their generation respected the vote once declared, something this generation seem incapable of doing. And the politicians who disagreed, joined forces in parliament to make joining work, something else the present generation could learn.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42977967 and now ignore the report of what will happen as it doesn't include the guesswork outcome of what we most likely can't have
Quote from: Donnywolf on February 07, 2018, 09:27:18 pmQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on February 07, 2018, 09:12:43 pmQuote from: selby on February 07, 2018, 07:48:49 pmBilly I accept everything you say about people being misled, and that's part of the problem, there are older generations that feel they were misled into voting to join something that morphed into something completely different to what they voted to join. They are the ones that were lied to, and have had to accept everything since, not all bad admittedly, but not what they voted for. The big difference is , their generation respected the vote once declared, something this generation seem incapable of doing. And the politicians who disagreed, joined forces in parliament to make joining work, something else the present generation could learn.The people who voted in the 1975 referendum didn't vote to join anything, they voted for the status quo as it was at that time, which is what they got. Where the UK went in the EU after that was decided by the successive UK governments that were also voted for by the British public.I am not sure that I agree with that but maybe I misunderstand what you are sayingIn 75 I voted against joining the Common Market (quite ironic given I am a remainer now) but it seemed that the Vote was largely made on Party Lines and so it was YEARS and I do mean YEARS till I ever met anyone that voted YES to joiningSo I believe I voted NOT to join the Common Market. Ironically the Tories won that Vote and since then half of them have pulled themselves apart time and again trying to get us back out and finally they have done it - and again ironically a lot of Labour Party voters helped them as they voted "Leave"We joined on Jan 1st 1973 so you certainly didn't vote not to join anything, we were already in it.And it certainly wasn't fought on party lines - it was the only time I can remember that Cabinet Collective Responsibility was suspended, so that Government Ministers were able to stand on opposing sides of the argument and disagree with one another. Members of other parties were allowed to stand on opposing sides too - it was as far removed from being on party lines as you could get.How do you make it that the Tories 'won' the vote? Both Wilson and Heath were on the 'Yes' side, and Wilson was PM at the time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43001931Jesus wept. Barnier and Davis are like an exasperated parent and a child who is slow on the uptake then has a tantrum. How many times does Barnier have to state the bleeding obvious?1) If Britain wants a transition period where we retain all the benefits of trade with Europe, then Europe insists that we keep our side of the deal in the rights of people coming from the EU to Britain. 2) If Britain wants a Hard Brexit then there are going to be serious implications for the Irish border. These things aren’t hard to grasp. They are bleeding obvious to anyone who spends 5 minutes looking at the issues. Yet Barnier is having to repeat them week after week after week, while Davis moans that he’s not being fair and WHY, WHY, WHY can’t we have the deal that WE want and I HATE YOU!!!
Errr, Barnier has already made a concession. We said we were going to leave the EU in March 2019 but wanted a transition/implementation period for some time after it. He said fair enough.Why Davies has now decided that this mean the UK can have different rules accessing the EU to the 27 remaining members seems bonkers to me - and very worrying to many people in Northern Ireland - so perhaps someone can explain it?
What, he wants us to stick to rules that something we want to be a part of and benefit from for a while longer will be implementing? the bas**rd.
Barnier my way or the highway. I will punish you if you don't agree to everything I demand theres no negotiation this idiot just demands wait for it................
Sporty. Yeah. What a Kitson that Barnier is. Telling us there might be some rules that we’ll need to follow if we’re going to be able to trade with the EU after we leave. Who the f**k does he think he is?If only we had an aircraft carrier with some planes on it, we should invade the bas**rds and put them in their place. Mind, the Benelux countries would be a bit pissed off if we invaded them, given that Barnier is French. Still, the f**kers are all the same aren’t they?