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Quote from: Sprotyrover on February 25, 2018, 08:28:54 pmOk ladies just to let you know Fox hasn't got a clue, the are conventions governing driving licences and Motor Insurance that pre date Our Membership of the EEC which will facilitate a smooth and seamless Brexit on this issue.So what the f**k are the Telegraph - and then you - getting your knickers in a twist about then?
Ok ladies just to let you know Fox hasn't got a clue, the are conventions governing driving licences and Motor Insurance that pre date Our Membership of the EEC which will facilitate a smooth and seamless Brexit on this issue.
I knew that, I'm trying to find out whether he does or whether he just regurgitates any old crap. He can obviously find the info, but apparently only after he's posted the original claim and got in a froth about it.
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on February 25, 2018, 09:14:29 pmI knew that, I'm trying to find out whether he does or whether he just regurgitates any old crap. He can obviously find the info, but apparently only after he's posted the original claim and got in a froth about it.Well at least it's a step up from Oslo who spouts completely unsubstantiated shite then challenges anyone to disagree with his made up facts to prove him wrong...
Admittedly I didn't hear Corbyn's speech and only seen reports, but for me there is a huge difference between "a customs union" and "THE Customs Union." Since the speech seems to point to the former, which is something that will have to be negotiated with the EU, I can't see that Labour's position is that much different to the Government's. EDIT. This just seems like more cherry-picking to me. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43189878
Labour would seek a final deal that gives full access to European markets and maintains the benefits of the single market and the customs union
TRBI couldnt agree more. I listened to the speech on the radio whilst working on a report so I might not have got all the subtleties. But from what I can see, hes asking for:1) A bespoke CU that gives us all the benefits of trade with the EU and all the flexibility that we want for external trade. 2) Leaving the SM in terms that leave us no worse off. 3) The right to re-work freedom of movement agreements. 4) Nothing that affects the GFA. It doesnt stack up. There are massive internal contradictions in that stance. But its not REALLY about Brexit anyway. This is about appealing to current and actual Labour supporters. Hes still in the mode of telling the pro- and anti-Brexit Labour supporters that hes in both of their sides. Because he needs them both to vote Labour in the General Election that were likely to have in the next 12 months. IF he wins the GE, THEN hell have to formulate a credible Brexit strategy. This speech isnt a credible Brexit strategy.
The Corbyn speech and Labour's new position is designed purely to get Tory rebels onside with the aim of bringing down the Maybot and hopefully paving the way for an election this year, with the added bonus of keeping all Labour voters in the fold.Clever stuff imo whether or not it's a feasible plan with regard to any Brexit deal.
WiltsThe point is, as Corbyn well knows, we’re not going to get a deal that involves:1) Having a pick and mix Customs Union.2) Having significant restrictions on freedom of movement. 3) Leaving the Single Market. 4) Having a day in CU/SM decisions affecting Britain. 4) Having an economic result which is at least as beneficial as the status quo ante. Which is, in a nutshell, what he said his aim was today. He’s still essentially saying that we want all the benefits and none of the things we don’t like. There’s zero chance of the EU agreeing to that. I’m sure he knows that (at least I bloody well hope he knows that because it’s bleeding obvious to anyone who studies the issue in any detail). That’s why I said that this isn’t really a credible Brexit stance. Yes, of course, the more sensible approach to other European agreements and agencies is infinitely preferable to the idiocy of May’s approach, but that’s a pretty low standard by which to judge anyone. But as I said before, this isn’t about Brexit. It’s about the next GE and it might well work.
Aye, and you also attacked Corbyn before as a poor leader because he wouldn't be able to put aside his principles to achieve power....politicians eh. But of course you are right it is not aimed as negotiating stance to the EU (how could it be, he's not the one in negotiations) but at a domestic audience to show he is a credible leader. The CBI seem to like it, so there you are, Labour the party of business.I am not so sure that any future GE is a guarantee for Labour tho. There were a lot of leave voters on the radio and tv saying he had betrayed them. He needs to win a few of them round first.
Ldr In fairness, both main political parties are in horrendous situations. Tory supporters are overwhelmingly and vehemently anti-EU. So May has little option (if she wants to remain leader) but to play to that. As does anyone else in the Tory party who has leadership pretensions. Whether May or Johnson or Rees-Mogg or whoever actually understand how economically disastrous a hard Brexit will be is irrelevant. They couldn’t argue for a soft-Brexit anyway because there party would have them. Corbyn’s situation is even tougher. 1/3rd of Labour supporters are anti-EU. 2/3rds are strongly pro-EU. But he needs all of them to have a chance of winning power. Oh aye,and he himself has been strongly against the EU throughout his political lifetime. But the majority of his Parliamentary colleagues are pro-EU. So, despite having won the leadership as a straight-talking politician with strong beliefs who doesn’t engage in grubby stuff like dissembling and avoiding the core of issues he’s...well, dissembling and avoiding the core issue. I don’t massively blame either of them. That’s what politics is. It’s not noble. It’s not pure. Unfortunately it IS necessary to act this way if you are going to be able to attain and remain in power to do the things you actually believe in.
What did Sir Martin Donnely say... Brexit is like giving up a 3 course meal for the promise of a packet of crisps.... I don’t think he's far wrong either, but I do wonder how many of those leave voters will enjoy their crisps.
Quote from: Not Now Kato on February 27, 2018, 11:15:02 amWhat did Sir Martin Donnely say... Brexit is like giving up a 3 course meal for the promise of a packet of crisps.... I don’t think he's far wrong either, but I do wonder how many of those leave voters will enjoy their crisps.They'll say but at least we get to choose what flavour crisps we have and that's more important than having a full belly.
I'll see your Liam Fox and raise it with Boris Johnson believing the Irish border is like the London congestion charge zone!http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson_uk_5a952465e4b02cb368c56016?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage