Israel

[SydneyRover]

Sorry, I don't bother reading many of BRR's posts for obvious reasons, but you must know what he's talking about nc

[Glyn_Wigley]

There won't be peace. Without worldwide pressure, which won't ever happen so long as the US remains strong, Israel won't budge the slightest bit on its racist apartheid position, never mind recompense the Palestinians for the theft of their land, the murder of their people, and the oppression put upon them.

Without US funding, the state wouldn't exist. It should have been put in an area in the States somewhere.

If only you thought the same about the theft of Ukrainian land.

[Filo]

Both sides have to compromise if there’s ever going to be peace in Palestine, both sides won’t budge, Israel provoke things by constantly building settlements in occupied land, and Hamas wants the total destruction of Israel, peace is never going to happen while this situation remains. What will happen now is Gaza will be turned to rubble

[BillyStubbsTears]

The scale of this attack is quite shocking.

It feels part of a narrative. There is one major country that benefits if shit starts kicking off all over the place.

That's why Azerbaijan has been given the green light to ethnically cleanse Nagorno- Karabakh.

It's why Serbia has been given the green light to start sabre-rattling over Kosovo.

And it's no coincidence that Hamas is funded by Iran who are in bed with...

Join the dots and the arrow points in one direction.

I detest what Israel has done to Palestinians. But massacring innocent civilians on this scale is not the answer.

The single thing it will do is to strengthen Putin's hand by dividing those who stand against Putin.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Anyone who still doubts that Starmer had to root out some of the fellow travellers that infested the Labour Party, just look at what ex MP Chris Williamson is saying today. Glorying in this uprising that has already resulted in hundreds of civilians dying.

[wilts rover]

I do wonder if we're already in WW3.

As sproty will tell you from his study of history, until the last century most major wars started in the middle east. Even one of those had the objective of controlling the oilfields in the middle east.

What he can also tell you is that there is a very strong and influential radical right-wing Christian movement in the US. The objective of which is to start a major war in the middle east in order to bring about Armageddon and the second coming of Christ. You might not believe this - but they do.

[wilts rover]

There won't be peace. Without worldwide pressure, which won't ever happen so long as the US remains strong, Israel won't budge the slightest bit on its racist apartheid position, never mind recompense the Palestinians for the theft of their land, the murder of their people, and the oppression put upon them.

Without US funding, the state wouldn't exist. It should have been put in an area in the States somewhere.

What do you think happens to the 6m Jewish people if you give the Palestinians the land?

For accuracy in this thread nc, I think you should define which land you mean and who are the owners.

The land that Bristol Red is talking about, I was replying to his post.

Hamas want to destroy Israel and have previously denied the holocaust.

Jewish Zionists want to destroy Palestine because they believe all biblical land should be controlled by Israel.

Not an easy situation is it.

Not all Palestinian's support Hamas and not all Jewish Israelis are Zionists. But there are enough of each to make compromise impossible.

[Bristol Red Rover]

There won't be peace. Without worldwide pressure, which won't ever happen so long as the US remains strong, Israel won't budge the slightest bit on its racist apartheid position, never mind recompense the Palestinians for the theft of their land, the murder of their people, and the oppression put upon them.

Without US funding, the state wouldn't exist. It should have been put in an area in the States somewhere.

What do you think happens to the 6m Jewish people if you give the Palestinians the land?

The land can be shared. Tho some Israelis are against peace more than Hamas, total fruit loops, they'd probs be imprisoned. There is a lot of work done between the various semites there, getting them together,  healing the divide. But, Israel constantly harms this. Without that harm,  without killing Palestinians, without robbing them, Hamas wouldn't exist.

[Sprotyrover]

There won't be peace. Without worldwide pressure, which won't ever happen so long as the US remains strong, Israel won't budge the slightest bit on its racist apartheid position, never mind recompense the Palestinians for the theft of their land, the murder of their people, and the oppression put upon them.

Without US funding, the state wouldn't exist. It should have been put in an area in the States somewhere.

What do you think happens to the 6m Jewish people if you give the Palestinians the land?

For accuracy in this thread nc, I think you should define which land you mean and who are the owners.

The land that Bristol Red is talking about, I was replying to his post.

Hamas want to destroy Israel and have previously denied the holocaust.

Jewish Zionists want to destroy Palestine because they believe all biblical land should be controlled by Israel.

Not an easy situation is it.

Not all Palestinian's support Hamas and not all Jewish Israelis are Zionists. But there are enough of each to make compromise impossible.

I do wonder if we're already in WW3.

As sproty will tell you from his study of history, until the last century most major wars started in the middle east. Even one of those had the objective of controlling the oilfields in the middle east.

What he can also tell you is that there is a very strong and influential radical right-wing Christian movement in the US. The objective of which is to start a major war in the middle east in order to bring about Armageddon and the second coming of Christ. You might not believe this - but they do.

More concerning is that 51% of all. Jews live in the US and control vast financial resources They hold a massive sway in Politics.
Ask yourself why the US has stored Billions of Dollars worth of Arms and Ammunition in Israel?

[Sprotyrover]

The disjointed Israeli Government has had little or no control over Right wing factions stealing land from Palestinians and building on it.

[Sprotyrover]

Nanny Biden has openly threatened any other power in the Region not to get involved

[Bristol Red Rover]

The scale of this attack is quite shocking.

It feels part of a narrative. There is one major country that benefits if shit starts kicking off all over the place.

That's why Azerbaijan has been given the green light to ethnically cleanse Nagorno- Karabakh.

It's why Serbia has been given the green light to start sabre-rattling over Kosovo.

And it's no coincidence that Hamas is funded by Iran who are in bed with...

Join the dots and the arrow points in one direction.

I detest what Israel has done to Palestinians. But massacring innocent civilians on this scale is not the answer.

The single thing it will do is to strengthen Putin's hand by dividing those who stand against Putin.

Wow, BST has had a fuse. Can someone introduce him to the United States? It is the country that is behind this problem. There is no doubt about this whatsoever. The problem is the state of Israel, it's government, it's section of looney population, and the people that sponsor it, that support it.

This includes Starmer who is weilding his his authoritarian sword right now at the Labour Party conference. No free speech there. Something he has already instilled through the party over the last year. His Zionist sponsors will be proud and ever more generous.

[Bristol Red Rover]

The disjointed Israeli Government has had little or no control over Right wing factions stealing land from Palestinians and building on it.

It's part of their policy not to. The government are totally responsible for that. This is one significant cause of what just happened.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Anyone who still doubts that Starmer had to root out some of the fellow travellers that infested the Labour Party, just look at what ex MP Chris Williamson is saying today. Glorying in this uprising that has already resulted in hundreds of civilians dying.

How hollow of you BST. Yes, the extreme statements needed dealing with, some members needed educating (how society progresses - a socialist thing), and a few needed expelling. Starmer took this far far far past reason and logic and legality. You are backing totalitarianism here.

[Bristol Red Rover]

There won't be peace. Without worldwide pressure, which won't ever happen so long as the US remains strong, Israel won't budge the slightest bit on its racist apartheid position, never mind recompense the Palestinians for the theft of their land, the murder of their people, and the oppression put upon them.

Without US funding, the state wouldn't exist. It should have been put in an area in the States somewhere.

If only you thought the same about the theft of Ukrainian land.

Two totally different situations. There was a long standing problem that had pretty much been held in check until the west poured petrol onto it over many years, the touch paper being lit before the coup. And then more fuel added, all for nefarious reasons. Yes Russia trod over the line, but that was as sure as day folling night with what the west did.

[Bristol Red Rover]

There won't be peace. Without worldwide pressure, which won't ever happen so long as the US remains strong, Israel won't budge the slightest bit on its racist apartheid position, never mind recompense the Palestinians for the theft of their land, the murder of their people, and the oppression put upon them.

Without US funding, the state wouldn't exist. It should have been put in an area in the States somewhere.

What do you think happens to the 6m Jewish people if you give the Palestinians the land?

Genocide

Which is why nearly all Paestinians, and many Jews, want to "share" the land. Coming up with the genocide comment does nothing but fuel this, right here, and from a right wing, actually facist, ultra Zionist perspective - is that who you are?

[Bristol Red Rover]

From what I can make out, apart from this being an action to scupper the Israeli "new middle east" thing with Saudi, Egypt, Sudan, and... Jordan?, on the ground the Palestinians seemed to focus on the military bases and police stations, grabbing over 40 vehicles including tanks, heavy arms, and ammunition. Also many vehicles, including tanks, put out of action. Seems they also shot down helicopters, four of them?

Hostages were also took, obviously, as they are bargaining chips. And no doubt some civilians tried to defend themselves and so were taken out, and some Palestinians were probably just charged up and wanted to kill. War is crap.

Israel is promoting the angle of Palestinians murdering civilians, even seen paid ads with this on an online game I was playing which was weird, as that appeals to the mainstream narrative. Apart from that being outright hypocrisy it's far from the central story.

[BillyStubbsTears]

He can't do it.

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1710632920950489167

He cannot look inside himself and unreservedly condemn the killing and kidnapping of civilians.

Those of you on the left who complain about the Corbynistas being blindsided and neutralised, grow up. This is who he is.

"The unfolding events."

Jesus f**king wept.

[DonnyOsmond]

From what I can make out, apart from this being an action to scupper the Israeli "new middle east" thing with Saudi, Egypt, Sudan, and... Jordan?, on the ground the Palestinians seemed to focus on the military bases and police stations, grabbing over 40 vehicles including tanks, heavy arms, and ammunition. Also many vehicles, including tanks, put out of action. Seems they also shot down helicopters, four of them?

Hostages were also took, obviously, as they are bargaining chips. And no doubt some civilians tried to defend themselves and so were taken out, and some Palestinians were probably just charged up and wanted to kill. War is crap.

Israel is promoting the angle of Palestinians murdering civilians, even seen paid ads with this on an online game I was playing which was weird, as that appeals to the mainstream narrative. Apart from that being outright hypocrisy it's far from the central story.

What about the 250+ innocent civilians at the music festival? Quite a few who weren't even Israeli.

[Bristol Red Rover]

A poor interview but the Palestinian Ambassador spoke very clearly about the problem. Worth a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8TGW10jkCM

[Bristol Red Rover]

He can't do it.

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1710632920950489167

He cannot look inside himself and unreservedly condemn the killing and kidnapping of civilians.

Those of you on the left who complain about the Corbynistas being blindsided and neutralised, grow up. This is who he is.

"The unfolding events."

Jesus f**king wept.

He's 100% correct. Will you condem Israel for its crimes, not least the current genocide on Gaza.

You are so right wing and increasingly plastic. Or is your beef because Corbyn beat you at conkers when you were a kid.... or a few years back?

[ncRover]

There won't be peace. Without worldwide pressure, which won't ever happen so long as the US remains strong, Israel won't budge the slightest bit on its racist apartheid position, never mind recompense the Palestinians for the theft of their land, the murder of their people, and the oppression put upon them.

Without US funding, the state wouldn't exist. It should have been put in an area in the States somewhere.

What do you think happens to the 6m Jewish people if you give the Palestinians the land?

The land can be shared. Tho some Israelis are against peace more than Hamas, total fruit loops, they'd probs be imprisoned. There is a lot of work done between the various semites there, getting them together,  healing the divide. But, Israel constantly harms this. Without that harm,  without killing Palestinians, without robbing them, Hamas wouldn't exist.

There’s problems on both sides.

But you seem to be an apologist for these recent terrorist actions from Hamas such as the one at the music festival and other evil crimes against civilians. I think that’s a bit sick.

Did UK civilians who have died at the hands of Islamist extremists have it coming for the actions of Bush and Blair destabilising the Middle East and giving rise to ISIS?

If shit was to hit the fan in areas where Israelis and Palestinians hypothetically lived together (something that propaganda and disinformation could easily whip up), who would hold more power - 2 million Palestinian civilians or 30,000 armed Hamas fighters? Likewise for the Israeli defence forces and right-wing militant factions?

Both sides want to destroy each other.

I’m not clued up on the historical context of the land I’ll be honest but I’m just looking at the here and now, the right and wrong and possible unintended consequences.

[ncRover]

The scale of this attack is quite shocking.

It feels part of a narrative. There is one major country that benefits if shit starts kicking off all over the place.

That's why Azerbaijan has been given the green light to ethnically cleanse Nagorno- Karabakh.

It's why Serbia has been given the green light to start sabre-rattling over Kosovo.

And it's no coincidence that Hamas is funded by Iran who are in bed with...

Join the dots and the arrow points in one direction.

I detest what Israel has done to Palestinians. But massacring innocent civilians on this scale is not the answer.

The single thing it will do is to strengthen Putin's hand by dividing those who stand against Putin.

I know that Israel have been hesitant to take sides on the Ukraine issue due to them having a fair share of Russians in their population.

But I think Ukraine came out in support of Israel in recent days. Would they do that if this was part of a Putin master plan?

[drfchound]

He can't do it.

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1710632920950489167

He cannot look inside himself and unreservedly condemn the killing and kidnapping of civilians.

Those of you on the left who complain about the Corbynistas being blindsided and neutralised, grow up. This is who he is.

"The unfolding events."

Jesus f**king wept.

BST, I know that with hindsight you have abandoned Corbyn but only four years ago you were campaigning in a way that would have had him as PM had Labour won.

[Bristol Red Rover]

There’s problems on both sides.

But you seem to be an apologist for these recent terrorist actions from Hamas such as the one at the music festival and other evil crimes against civilians. I think that’s a bit sick.

Did UK civilians who have died at the hands of Islamist extremists have it coming for the actions of Bush and Blair destabilising the Middle East and giving rise to ISIS?

If shit was to hit the fan in areas where Israelis and Palestinians hypothetically lived together (something that propaganda and disinformation could easily whip up), who would hold more power - 2 million Palestinian civilians or 30,000 armed Hamas fighters? Likewise for the Israeli defence forces and right-wing militant factions?

Both sides want to destroy each other.

I’m not clued up on the historical context of the land I’ll be honest but I’m just looking at the here and now, the right and wrong and possible unintended consequences.

I don't know what happened at the music festival. Holding it nearby Gaza is a bit daft. I can't see I'm being an apologist, can't you point out where? I detest war and violence, but see how it happens, and see how people in power can avert it in almost all cases. Many people in power, Israel being the prime examle, breed conflict. They are one of the most evil governments on the planet, and have been since their very earliest beginings. Even more evil are their sponsors worldwide, including how they weaponise antisemitism, zionism, Judaism - hypocrisy, obviously.

How many UK citizens died as a result of ISIS? Yes, Bush and Blair -  though in reality it was clearly the people that pulled their strings - willingly created carnage and destruction. And the UK and US do that endlessly worldwide. A UK or US citizen travelling anywhere has the results of that coming at them - it's just how the world works. How are you thinking differently? Moreso the UK citizen who was in the IDF - job description.

Your hypothetical scenario is making a lot of assumptions, most of which wouldn't be there if that happened. What you say gives support to the Israeli hold on the situation which is racist and worse.

There are lots of positive projects in Israel and the Palestinian territories where Jews and Moslems, and Christians, and Israelis, and Palestinians are brought together in positive ways. This is what happened in Ireland too. It can be done. It won't be easy. First major stage is to halt the insane facist Zionists who are to this day being given permission to illegally take Palestinian land. Then, all land taken in the West Bank should be returned, and those who perpetrated the crimes be punished. However, that won't happen because these mental extreme Zionists hold power, and the US won't dare interfer. So we have this, deaths at music festivals, thousands of Palestinians murdered in what is genocide.

One theory I have heard, may or may not be true, is Israel powers knew about the plans of Hamas and let it happen just so they could get stuck in and try to destroy them. They won't ever destroy them, but some in the government will up their falling ratings, including arch facist Netanyahu.

I'll keep saying it too, and it is totally on topic here - Starmer supports these psychos. he is the same proven in his lockdown on free speech, and his inability, or deliberate perversity, and bowing to his Zionist paymasters, to not distinguish between antisemitism and anti Israel. That's not even to mention that Palestinians are Semites by definition. "Human Rights Lawyer" - he's twisted beyond Orwellian proportions.

[tommy toes]

Hound.
You campaign for the Party.
Leaders come and go but the beliefs and values remain broadly the same.
 Even you should realise that. Unless you're stirring the pot again as per.

[albie]

I really wish that were true, Tommy.

But the party has to represent a set of principles that remain consistent, although the policies to deliver them may be revisited.

The issue now is a large divide between sections of Labour on key principles.
Israel is a very good example. Starmer belongs to Labour Friends of Israel, which is a whitewash of the government of Israel, and its role in the continued occupation of Palestine.

I don't see how these positions can reconcile.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is Corbyn.

https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1711022592247619972

Cannot find it in himself to explicitly condemn the murder of 250 people at a concert. Then gets stroppy when he's questioned on it.

Utterly shameful. But not surprising.

[drfchound]

Hound.
You campaign for the Party.
Leaders come and go but the beliefs and values remain broadly the same.
 Even you should realise that. Unless you're stirring the pot again as per.

No Tommy, I’m astonished that he could support Corbyn so vehemently, to the point where had Labour won, Corbyn would have been PM.
That is a fact.
In recent times he has denounced him so much that you would think he (Corbyn) is the devil.
God knows where we would be now had Labour won and Corbyn had been in charge.
The change in opinion is astonishing.
Yes you campaign for the Party but if the Party wins you know who is going to be in charge.
I’m sure you will agree.

[glosterred]

There won't be peace. Without worldwide pressure, which won't ever happen so long as the US remains strong, Israel won't budge the slightest bit on its racist apartheid position, never mind recompense the Palestinians for the theft of their land, the murder of their people, and the oppression put upon them.

Without US funding, the state wouldn't exist. It should have been put in an area in the States somewhere.

What do you think happens to the 6m Jewish people if you give the Palestinians the land?

Genocide

Which is why nearly all Paestinians, and many Jews, want to "share" the land. Coming up with the genocide comment does nothing but fuel this, right here, and from a right wing, actually facist, ultra Zionist perspective - is that who you are?

No