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this one https://londonairtravel.com/2022/06/13/monday-briefing-13-june-2022/or this onehttps://www.ft.com/content/52633077-89f8-4e95-a3aa-a60128b367c5Do I have to guess?
And from the same link above .........''Last week the chief executive of easyJet, Johan Lundgren, contradicted claims by the aviation minister Robert Courts (and Tyke) that it was “not likely” Brexit had caused staff shortages which have led to disruption at airports. Lundgren countered that 8,000 job applications from EU citizens had been rejected by his firm because candidates did not have permission to work in the UK''
Quote from: SydneyRover on June 26, 2022, 01:47:27 amAnd from the same link above .........''Last week the chief executive of easyJet, Johan Lundgren, contradicted claims by the aviation minister Robert Courts (and Tyke) that it was “not likely” Brexit had caused staff shortages which have led to disruption at airports. Lundgren countered that 8,000 job applications from EU citizens had been rejected by his firm because candidates did not have permission to work in the UK''You'd think those staff would have easily got jobs in the EU countries in that sector struggling to get staff wouldn't you? Or they could easily operate the planes from the non UK leg of their airline if it was such an issue (like wizzair do). I wonder why the issue persists in Europe too then.
Quote from: Not Now Kato on June 25, 2022, 11:05:30 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 08:48:29 pmQuote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:47:42 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 07:35:59 pmQuote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:24:25 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 05:00:17 pmKato, there are some things in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.Maybe because he is on your side?People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?Well, what can you say...The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.But I am justifying it wilts.None of my comment was aimed at you.I simply asked Kato why he jumped on me for saying “the vote”,instead of jumping on you for saying “the vote.”You are being very sensitive about something that doesn’t exist. Hound, I haven’t ‘jumped’ on anyone. I simply stated what I believed should have happened given the scenario of the 2016 referendum, and the reason we are in the mess we currently are with respect to leaving the EU. It was you who asked should we honour the result of the referendum, I simply gave my view on that question - or are you suggesting I should be barred from giving my opinion? I stand by my response to your question, wholeheartedly.Kato, in my previous reply to you I said that I agreed with most of what you had written.But then you have slightly altered the context of my post.Your words were “it was you who asked if we should honour the result of the referendum”.But I didn’t , I simply asked wilts that question, not everyone else, in my direct reply to him after he quoted my post.I had earlier said that I think we have to honour the result of the referendum because there isn’t anything we can do right now to change that decision.This is getting really silly and drawn out now.You wrote the words below and directed them to me:“The 'vote' as you put it”You and I have a history on here of not getting along, probably due to you being an avid Labour supporter and me not agreeing with some of the stuff you sometimes write.I do sometimes agree with what you write by the way.When you wrote what you did about “the vote” part of a post of mine I had thought how odd it was that you didn’t pick up on wilts using “the vote” but chose to do so to me.That’s it, that’s all it was.Oh, and by the way, no I don’t think you should be barred from giving your opinion on stuff.
Quote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 08:48:29 pmQuote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:47:42 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 07:35:59 pmQuote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:24:25 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 05:00:17 pmKato, there are some things in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.Maybe because he is on your side?People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?Well, what can you say...The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.But I am justifying it wilts.None of my comment was aimed at you.I simply asked Kato why he jumped on me for saying “the vote”,instead of jumping on you for saying “the vote.”You are being very sensitive about something that doesn’t exist. Hound, I haven’t ‘jumped’ on anyone. I simply stated what I believed should have happened given the scenario of the 2016 referendum, and the reason we are in the mess we currently are with respect to leaving the EU. It was you who asked should we honour the result of the referendum, I simply gave my view on that question - or are you suggesting I should be barred from giving my opinion? I stand by my response to your question, wholeheartedly.
Quote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:47:42 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 07:35:59 pmQuote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:24:25 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 05:00:17 pmKato, there are some things in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.Maybe because he is on your side?People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?Well, what can you say...The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.But I am justifying it wilts.None of my comment was aimed at you.I simply asked Kato why he jumped on me for saying “the vote”,instead of jumping on you for saying “the vote.”You are being very sensitive about something that doesn’t exist.
Quote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 07:35:59 pmQuote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:24:25 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 05:00:17 pmKato, there are some things in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.Maybe because he is on your side?People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?Well, what can you say...The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.
Quote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:24:25 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 05:00:17 pmKato, there are some things in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.Maybe because he is on your side?People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?Well, what can you say...The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.
Quote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 05:00:17 pmKato, there are some things in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.Maybe because he is on your side?People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?Well, what can you say...The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.
Kato, there are some things in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.Maybe because he is on your side?
Quote from: drfchound on June 26, 2022, 09:46:02 amQuote from: Not Now Kato on June 25, 2022, 11:05:30 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 08:48:29 pmQuote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:47:42 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 07:35:59 pmQuote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:24:25 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 05:00:17 pmKato, there are some things in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.Maybe because he is on your side?People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?Well, what can you say...The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.But I am justifying it wilts.None of my comment was aimed at you.I simply asked Kato why he jumped on me for saying “the vote”,instead of jumping on you for saying “the vote.”You are being very sensitive about something that doesn’t exist. Hound, I haven’t ‘jumped’ on anyone. I simply stated what I believed should have happened given the scenario of the 2016 referendum, and the reason we are in the mess we currently are with respect to leaving the EU. It was you who asked should we honour the result of the referendum, I simply gave my view on that question - or are you suggesting I should be barred from giving my opinion? I stand by my response to your question, wholeheartedly.Kato, in my previous reply to you I said that I agreed with most of what you had written.But then you have slightly altered the context of my post.Your words were “it was you who asked if we should honour the result of the referendum”.But I didn’t , I simply asked wilts that question, not everyone else, in my direct reply to him after he quoted my post.I had earlier said that I think we have to honour the result of the referendum because there isn’t anything we can do right now to change that decision.This is getting really silly and drawn out now.You wrote the words below and directed them to me:“The 'vote' as you put it”You and I have a history on here of not getting along, probably due to you being an avid Labour supporter and me not agreeing with some of the stuff you sometimes write.I do sometimes agree with what you write by the way.When you wrote what you did about “the vote” part of a post of mine I had thought how odd it was that you didn’t pick up on wilts using “the vote” but chose to do so to me.That’s it, that’s all it was.Oh, and by the way, no I don’t think you should be barred from giving your opinion on stuff. You have me wrong Hound, I'm not a Labour supporter. Rather, I'm a supporter of what I believe is best for the, 'majority' - as you can't please everyone - of the people of this country. I have particular concern for those less well off; and it is them who will suffer the worst effect of Brexit the most. I am also an advocate of Proportional Representation as a means of achieving better representation for everyone and making each vote count. At this point in time, given our First Past The Post voting system and the lack of depth of parties other than Labour and the Conservatives then I currently see Labour as the better of the two main options to better represent the people of this country. The Tories have been extremely poor in everything other than the vaccine roll-out. The lies, cronyism and deceit are clear for all to see, (though it appears an awful lot of people in the country don't WANT to see it); and I have said many times that if Johnson were to walk up to some of them and kick them in the groin they'd actually thank him for doing so! The final sentence in Oliver Dowden's resignation letter is a classic example of this where he says, without qualification, "I will, as always, remain loyal to the Conservative Party". So, without any qualification, he's actually saying that it doesn't really matter what the Party do, however corrupt it continues to be, he will always remain loyal to it. Very 1984, Julia would be proud. Then there's Russia's part in the Brexit 'Vote', (that word again!); the lack of an independent enquiry and report into the subject is very telling, as is the redacted report the Government themselves produced - particularly in light of the amount of money the Tory Party receives from wealthy Russians and the election of a Russian with links to the FSB to the House of Lords! But Labour are not without their issues. They need a clear policy, or set of policies, that will address all the failings of the Tory Party - and I see no clear sign of that at present, sadly. They seem to be relying on highlighting the continuing gaffs and failings of Johnson in particular and the Cabinet in general to garner support. Whilst this is highlighting the problems the country faces and can be seen as 'scoring points', it does nothing to address them. Starmer's stance on reviewing membership of the EU in some form or other is also disheartening as any form of partnership or move to PR will be fraught with conflict, particularly with the Liberal Democrats and the SNP who are both ardent re-joiners. Hope the above clears up my political leanings.
Quote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on June 26, 2022, 01:40:56 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on June 26, 2022, 01:47:27 amAnd from the same link above .........''Last week the chief executive of easyJet, Johan Lundgren, contradicted claims by the aviation minister Robert Courts (and Tyke) that it was “not likely” Brexit had caused staff shortages which have led to disruption at airports. Lundgren countered that 8,000 job applications from EU citizens had been rejected by his firm because candidates did not have permission to work in the UK''You'd think those staff would have easily got jobs in the EU countries in that sector struggling to get staff wouldn't you? Or they could easily operate the planes from the non UK leg of their airline if it was such an issue (like wizzair do). I wonder why the issue persists in Europe too then.Some airlines are 'wet leasing' plane and staff in Europe. ''Legal Loophole: The UK Airlines Leasing European Aircraft To Avoid Brexit-Related Recruitment Issues''https://simpleflying.com/uk-airlines-leasing-european-aircraft-avoid-brexit-recruitment-issues/
Quote from: Not Now Kato on June 26, 2022, 04:17:31 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 26, 2022, 09:46:02 amQuote from: Not Now Kato on June 25, 2022, 11:05:30 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 08:48:29 pmQuote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:47:42 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 07:35:59 pmQuote from: wilts rover on June 25, 2022, 07:24:25 pmQuote from: drfchound on June 25, 2022, 05:00:17 pmKato, there are some things in your post that I agree with and I have always said that the public at large shouldn’t have been the people responsible for deciding whether we left the EU but I noticed that you didn’t reprimand wilts for mentioning “the vote” in his post that I quoted and responded to.Maybe because he is on your side?People should be repremanded for asking questions should they hound?Well, what can you say...The question to DD (in response to his question to BST about future Labour policy on trade with Europe) was about what he thinks future Labour Party policy should be. Clearly they have to have one.Wilts, you have picked up the wrong end of the stick matey.Read the the opening sentence of Katos volley at me and he says “the vote, as you put it”.I was explaining to him that you had used the expression (vote) and asked him why he hadn’t jumped on you, rather than me, for calling the vote, the vote, so to speak.I never suggested that people should be reprimanded for asking questions.I have picked up exactly on what you wrote hound. I asked a very simple question and you asked Kato why he didn't repremand me for asking it.If you want to argue with Kato thats between you and him, dont go dragging me into it just for the sake of it - or you will need to justify doing it.But I am justifying it wilts.None of my comment was aimed at you.I simply asked Kato why he jumped on me for saying “the vote”,instead of jumping on you for saying “the vote.”You are being very sensitive about something that doesn’t exist. Hound, I haven’t ‘jumped’ on anyone. I simply stated what I believed should have happened given the scenario of the 2016 referendum, and the reason we are in the mess we currently are with respect to leaving the EU. It was you who asked should we honour the result of the referendum, I simply gave my view on that question - or are you suggesting I should be barred from giving my opinion? I stand by my response to your question, wholeheartedly.Kato, in my previous reply to you I said that I agreed with most of what you had written.But then you have slightly altered the context of my post.Your words were “it was you who asked if we should honour the result of the referendum”.But I didn’t , I simply asked wilts that question, not everyone else, in my direct reply to him after he quoted my post.I had earlier said that I think we have to honour the result of the referendum because there isn’t anything we can do right now to change that decision.This is getting really silly and drawn out now.You wrote the words below and directed them to me:“The 'vote' as you put it”You and I have a history on here of not getting along, probably due to you being an avid Labour supporter and me not agreeing with some of the stuff you sometimes write.I do sometimes agree with what you write by the way.When you wrote what you did about “the vote” part of a post of mine I had thought how odd it was that you didn’t pick up on wilts using “the vote” but chose to do so to me.That’s it, that’s all it was.Oh, and by the way, no I don’t think you should be barred from giving your opinion on stuff. You have me wrong Hound, I'm not a Labour supporter. Rather, I'm a supporter of what I believe is best for the, 'majority' - as you can't please everyone - of the people of this country. I have particular concern for those less well off; and it is them who will suffer the worst effect of Brexit the most. I am also an advocate of Proportional Representation as a means of achieving better representation for everyone and making each vote count. At this point in time, given our First Past The Post voting system and the lack of depth of parties other than Labour and the Conservatives then I currently see Labour as the better of the two main options to better represent the people of this country. The Tories have been extremely poor in everything other than the vaccine roll-out. The lies, cronyism and deceit are clear for all to see, (though it appears an awful lot of people in the country don't WANT to see it); and I have said many times that if Johnson were to walk up to some of them and kick them in the groin they'd actually thank him for doing so! The final sentence in Oliver Dowden's resignation letter is a classic example of this where he says, without qualification, "I will, as always, remain loyal to the Conservative Party". So, without any qualification, he's actually saying that it doesn't really matter what the Party do, however corrupt it continues to be, he will always remain loyal to it. Very 1984, Julia would be proud. Then there's Russia's part in the Brexit 'Vote', (that word again!); the lack of an independent enquiry and report into the subject is very telling, as is the redacted report the Government themselves produced - particularly in light of the amount of money the Tory Party receives from wealthy Russians and the election of a Russian with links to the FSB to the House of Lords! But Labour are not without their issues. They need a clear policy, or set of policies, that will address all the failings of the Tory Party - and I see no clear sign of that at present, sadly. They seem to be relying on highlighting the continuing gaffs and failings of Johnson in particular and the Cabinet in general to garner support. Whilst this is highlighting the problems the country faces and can be seen as 'scoring points', it does nothing to address them. Starmer's stance on reviewing membership of the EU in some form or other is also disheartening as any form of partnership or move to PR will be fraught with conflict, particularly with the Liberal Democrats and the SNP who are both ardent re-joiners. Hope the above clears up my political leanings.Kato, thanks for that honest and well made response to me.You may be surprised to hear that I agree with most of that but perhaps not surprised to hear that FPTP or PR don’t enter my thoughts as I am not particularly interested in politics.I know a bit about it but certainly don’t allow it to dominate my day as appears to be the case with some of our posters.I am with you all the way on Johnson’s failings and think he has to go if the Conservatives want to have a chance of winning the GE, which I think is what will happen because I can’t see a split Labour support getting behind the Party in their current guise.Just a point on Oliver Dowdens words that you highlight, I read it as him saying that he backs the Party but not Johnson.I may be wrong of course.Anyway, I’m glad we appear to have ended what was a daft argument and hope we can get on better in the future.
Meanwhile. The consequence of Austerity and Brexit.https://twitter.com/toby_n/status/1542560637930405890Of course, our retired friends don't feel the effect of this unprecedented depression in wages for working people. But out there in the working world, this is the consequence of a decade of catastrophically bad economic choices.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/04/labour-keir-starmer-vows-cut-red-tape-not-unpick-brexitStarmer announcing new Labour policy to not seek membership of the SM or the CU and seeking a new arrangement with the NIC, that sounds very much like what the Tories are suggesting.Sounds like ToryLite policy, is he right? or is this a pledge that will be conveniently forgotten and kicked into the long grass after he's bagged the votes, this from a man who was a staunch remainer, can he be taken at his word? or is he just a typical politician.
There's no way we can or should reopen the wounds on this at this moment.We WILL end up back in the SM and CU. Maybe back in the EU. But that will only be feasible when enough people in this country realise what damage they have done to our economic prospects by Brexit.And of course the following should go without saying but, y'know.I would be delighted for Labour to be able to make a success of Brexit and restore our prosperity in a way that made rejoining European institutions unnecessary. But I'm a realist. They won't because it ain't possible.