5 games in.....

[scawsby steve]

We've gone to Bradford and kept them out with 10 men for half the game. We've come from behind twice to beat both Sutton and Salford, both of which are decent outfits and we went to Northampton and controlled the game and won.

Arguably you could say that we did well to beat Stockport as when the opposition gets a man sent off early doors, the pressure to win the game instantly rises and often this isn't easy to meet.

I don't think we've set the world alight with performances but we have results and we have workrate, ability and grit and i'm not concerned about Mansfield. We've done all the above this season so far and can do Mansfield no problem.

Can't believe i'm saying that after last season.

Actually, Panda, you forgot to mention another unbelievable escape, at Wimbledon, where we were 2 goals down with 6 minutes left.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

We now have the personnel, on and off the pitch, who are able to find a way of getting positive results.

Positive results reinforce the actions taken to get those results, whether it be resolute defending, creative midfield play, taking more shooting opportunities, making timely substitutions, being able to manage the clock in our favour, all result in players gaining belief and confidence in themselves,  their teammates and the management.

As I've said before, GM is a quick learner and he is also benefitting from the results reinforcing his actions. He's absorbed lots of information from those he's tapped into, such as Steve Eyre, Paul Warne, Copps , Steve Carsley and many others.

Just as Paul Warne and others learned their trade during their first ventures into management, being given the opportunity to learn including from the mistakes and being given time, will bring the stability we've been craving for and hopefully the success.

Even in the few games played this season, nobody can say the turnaround is down to luck.

[Panda]

We've gone to Bradford and kept them out with 10 men for half the game. We've come from behind twice to beat both Sutton and Salford, both of which are decent outfits and we went to Northampton and controlled the game and won.

Arguably you could say that we did well to beat Stockport as when the opposition gets a man sent off early doors, the pressure to win the game instantly rises and often this isn't easy to meet.

I don't think we've set the world alight with performances but we have results and we have workrate, ability and grit and i'm not concerned about Mansfield. We've done all the above this season so far and can do Mansfield no problem.

Can't believe i'm saying that after last season.

Actually, Panda, you forgot to mention another unbelievable escape, at Wimbledon, where we were 2 goals down with 6 minutes left.

Yep. Point taken mate.

[Daniel_Smith]

My personal view is we've managed to string these results together in spite of McSheffrey, not because of him.

I think the growing list of injuries is a concern too. Why are we suffering with so many, mirroring last season with the injury list in a lot of respects.

I'm certainly glad we're doing well. Automatic promotion = a successful season in my book.

[PDX_Rover]

My personal view is we've managed to string these results together in spite of McSheffrey, not because of him.

I think the growing list of injuries is a concern too. Why are we suffering with so many, mirroring last season with the injury list in a lot of respects.

I'm certainly glad we're doing well. Automatic promotion = a successful season in my book.

Probably the daftest post on here this season. You are implying that the manager/head coach of the team is an impediment rather than a catalyst?

GMc always needed time to clean up the disaster of last season, sweep clean, assemble his pwn squad and staff and introduce a culture, an identity. He’s always impressed me with his reading of games but didn’t have the tools for the job.

No he’s got those tools and we’ve won 4 and drawn 2, and STILL have some very good players to come back.

I don’t know what you’re huffing mate, but it’s clearly addled your noggin.

[Sammy Chung was King]

I wouldn’t call him a quick learner, he had nearly a whole season and made mistake after mistake. I think he has learned a lot from last season. He has a good backroom staff around him. He has better players than last season.

He has been able to train his own players from pre season, instead of inheriting quite a few and bringing in cheap youth loans. The board I would like to think have learned from last season as well.

They’ve gone about it quietly and got what was needed. There is a long way to go, we are still getting the injuries that could yet scupper progress. Very good start so far though.

[Daniel_Smith]

My personal view is we've managed to string these results together in spite of McSheffrey, not because of him.

I think the growing list of injuries is a concern too. Why are we suffering with so many, mirroring last season with the injury list in a lot of respects.

I'm certainly glad we're doing well. Automatic promotion = a successful season in my book.

Probably the daftest post on here this season. You are implying that the manager/head coach of the team is an impediment rather than a catalyst?

GMc always needed time to clean up the disaster of last season, sweep clean, assemble his pwn squad and staff and introduce a culture, an identity. He’s always impressed me with his reading of games but didn’t have the tools for the job.

No he’s got those tools and we’ve won 4 and drawn 2, and STILL have some very good players to come back.

I don’t know what you’re huffing mate, but it’s clearly addled your noggin.

Ah yes. I forgot I wasn't allowed a contrasting view to the "Saint McSheffrey" brigade. I'm glad you obviously have a really short term memory and totally forgot about his managerial performance last season.

The abuse anyone who dares try and say anything against the club, board or manager gets on this forum should shock me. It doesn't anymore.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I wouldn’t call him a quick learner, he had nearly a whole season and made mistake after mistake. I think he has learned a lot from last season. He has a good backroom staff around him. He has better players than last season.

He has been able to train his own players from pre season, instead of inheriting quite a few and bringing in cheap youth loans. The board I would like to think have learned from last season as well.

They’ve gone about it quietly and got what was needed. There is a long way to go, we are still getting the injuries that could yet scupper progress. Very good start so far though.

I beg to differ. In relative terms, not just on the pitch but off the pitch, he has soaked in alot of information and implemented that learning. He's made the mistakes, which he openly acknowledged, and tried to do things differently.

There's a whole raft of qualities you need to be a football manager and in less than a full season, in two transfer windows, the club is in very different shape to when he took over. Yes, we've had to take our medicine suffering relegation,  but we've come out fighting.

He's done exactly what he said he wanted to do,  with the support staff, the Head of Football role, changing the way we go about recruiting players and improving the quality of players recruited. On top of that, establishing a different culture for those players to thrive in.

[Panda]

Daniel Smith has a valid point but it looks like this forum is following the societal trend of shutting down anyone with an opposing view.

It is a results business and we are near the top of the league and unbeaten and for those fans who simply look at results as markers of managerial ability then it is difficult to argue against their point.

However, many of the results this season have been as a result of good fortune.

How many people at the Sutton game thought we'd even have a decent shot on target let alone score with 5 minutes to go? Lincoln anyone?

Outplayed by Salford before gradually growing into the game.

Saving a draw at Wimbledon after going 2 down and having to react rather than be proactive.

We got the win at Northampton but it was a late penalty (they all count) but subs weren't made to try and get the win before the penalty was given.

Stockport we needed a last gasp winner after playing against 10 men at home for an hour.

Yes, results have been fantastic but we've been extremely fortunate in a lot of games. Cal it spirit and never say die attitude if you want but this doesn't have much to do with McSheffery who still looks like he's putting out 11 players and hoping for lady luck to appear. At some point this luck will run out and then it is all about how he responds and how the team responds.

To GM's credit, he seems to identified some useful additions in the summer and brought them in and getting a side to gel within 5/6 league games is very difficult. However, he did bring in some crap last season ( and continued to play them when everyone could see they were crap) other than Josh Martin i'd say.

Before last season ended i said to a mate that if GM is kept on then he'd be sacked or have fans clamouring for his sacking by Christmas and i have to stick to that, despite our league position.

6 league games when we've done well doesn't gloss over the 6 months of absolutely clueless management offered up by GM last season for me and i'll wait a while longer before truly believing we've got the right man and truly turned a corner.

[idler]

GM also has the presence of of Steve Eyre to help advise and guide him. He has obviously learned a lot from last season and that will probably make him a better and stronger manager in the long run.
The players certainly seem to buy into the club ethos now. Even players like Clayton and Tomlin who have played at a much higher level always talk about the team rather than themselves.

[RobTheRover]

Daniel Smith has a valid point but it looks like this forum is following the societal trend of shutting down anyone with an opposing view.

It is a results business and we are near the top of the league and unbeaten and for those fans who simply look at results as markers of managerial ability then it is difficult to argue against their point.

However, many of the results this season have been as a result of good fortune.

How many people at the Sutton game thought we'd even have a decent shot on target let alone score with 5 minutes to go? Lincoln anyone?

Outplayed by Salford before gradually growing into the game.

Saving a draw at Wimbledon after going 2 down and having to react rather than be proactive.

We got the win at Northampton but it was a late penalty (they all count) but subs weren't made to try and get the win before the penalty was given.

Stockport we needed a last gasp winner after playing against 10 men at home for an hour.

Yes, results have been fantastic but we've been extremely fortunate in a lot of games. Cal it spirit and never say die attitude if you want but this doesn't have much to do with McSheffery who still looks like he's putting out 11 players and hoping for lady luck to appear. At some point this luck will run out and then it is all about how he responds and how the team responds.

To GM's credit, he seems to identified some useful additions in the summer and brought them in and getting a side to gel within 5/6 league games is very difficult. However, he did bring in some crap last season ( and continued to play them when everyone could see they were crap) other than Josh Martin i'd say.

Before last season ended i said to a mate that if GM is kept on then he'd be sacked or have fans clamouring for his sacking by Christmas and i have to stick to that, despite our league position.

6 league games when we've done well doesn't gloss over the 6 months of absolutely clueless management offered up by GM last season for me and i'll wait a while longer before truly believing we've got the right man and truly turned a corner.

No one is getting shut down. It's a debate. Point made, counter point made, further counter point made.

You can clearly see the influence of Steve Eyre in performances, and this is the point about GMc learning. Performances at the end of last season's disaster show improved markedly, and if it had happened a few games earlier you could argue, as unjust as it would have been on balance, we could have stayed up.  GMc is soaking up info and is getting excellent help to process it. It's part of his development. He's getting there.

[Daniel_Smith]

Daniel Smith has a valid point but it looks like this forum is following the societal trend of shutting down anyone with an opposing view.

It is a results business and we are near the top of the league and unbeaten and for those fans who simply look at results as markers of managerial ability then it is difficult to argue against their point.

However, many of the results this season have been as a result of good fortune.

How many people at the Sutton game thought we'd even have a decent shot on target let alone score with 5 minutes to go? Lincoln anyone?

Outplayed by Salford before gradually growing into the game.

Saving a draw at Wimbledon after going 2 down and having to react rather than be proactive.

We got the win at Northampton but it was a late penalty (they all count) but subs weren't made to try and get the win before the penalty was given.

Stockport we needed a last gasp winner after playing against 10 men at home for an hour.

Yes, results have been fantastic but we've been extremely fortunate in a lot of games. Cal it spirit and never say die attitude if you want but this doesn't have much to do with McSheffery who still looks like he's putting out 11 players and hoping for lady luck to appear. At some point this luck will run out and then it is all about how he responds and how the team responds.

To GM's credit, he seems to identified some useful additions in the summer and brought them in and getting a side to gel within 5/6 league games is very difficult. However, he did bring in some crap last season ( and continued to play them when everyone could see they were crap) other than Josh Martin i'd say.

Before last season ended i said to a mate that if GM is kept on then he'd be sacked or have fans clamouring for his sacking by Christmas and i have to stick to that, despite our league position.

6 league games when we've done well doesn't gloss over the 6 months of absolutely clueless management offered up by GM last season for me and i'll wait a while longer before truly believing we've got the right man and truly turned a corner.

You've put it better than I ever could with that post Panda.

[Panda]

Yep. Take your point Rob.

I still feel that GM is reactive though rather than proactive which reflects in his substitutions. Always bringing on subs to rescue a game or leaving them really late when we're level.

He doesn't seem to be learning with regards to this and he's a conservative manager who has gotten out of jail on a number of occasions this season IMO.

[Daniel_Smith]

Daniel Smith has a valid point but it looks like this forum is following the societal trend of shutting down anyone with an opposing view.

It is a results business and we are near the top of the league and unbeaten and for those fans who simply look at results as markers of managerial ability then it is difficult to argue against their point.

However, many of the results this season have been as a result of good fortune.

How many people at the Sutton game thought we'd even have a decent shot on target let alone score with 5 minutes to go? Lincoln anyone?

Outplayed by Salford before gradually growing into the game.

Saving a draw at Wimbledon after going 2 down and having to react rather than be proactive.

We got the win at Northampton but it was a late penalty (they all count) but subs weren't made to try and get the win before the penalty was given.

Stockport we needed a last gasp winner after playing against 10 men at home for an hour.

Yes, results have been fantastic but we've been extremely fortunate in a lot of games. Cal it spirit and never say die attitude if you want but this doesn't have much to do with McSheffery who still looks like he's putting out 11 players and hoping for lady luck to appear. At some point this luck will run out and then it is all about how he responds and how the team responds.

To GM's credit, he seems to identified some useful additions in the summer and brought them in and getting a side to gel within 5/6 league games is very difficult. However, he did bring in some crap last season ( and continued to play them when everyone could see they were crap) other than Josh Martin i'd say.

Before last season ended i said to a mate that if GM is kept on then he'd be sacked or have fans clamouring for his sacking by Christmas and i have to stick to that, despite our league position.

6 league games when we've done well doesn't gloss over the 6 months of absolutely clueless management offered up by GM last season for me and i'll wait a while longer before truly believing we've got the right man and truly turned a corner.

No one is getting shut down. It's a debate. Point made, counter point made, further counter point made.

You can clearly see the influence of Steve Eyre in performances, and this is the point about GMc learning. Performances at the end of last season's disaster show improved markedly, and if it had happened a few games earlier you could argue, as unjust as it would have been on balance, we could have stayed up.  GMc is soaking up info and is getting excellent help to process it. It's part of his development. He's getting there.

I welcome a debate. Just not abuse. My post earlier was called "the daftest post on here this season". It was also implied I was on drugs which had "clearly addled [my] noggin."

(I know you didn't post that. Just trying to highlight there are some on this forum who don't welcome debate - just abuse).

[Jonathan]

Daniel Smith has a valid point but it looks like this forum is following the societal trend of shutting down anyone with an opposing view.

It is a results business and we are near the top of the league and unbeaten and for those fans who simply look at results as markers of managerial ability then it is difficult to argue against their point.

However, many of the results this season have been as a result of good fortune.

How many people at the Sutton game thought we'd even have a decent shot on target let alone score with 5 minutes to go? Lincoln anyone?

Outplayed by Salford before gradually growing into the game.

Saving a draw at Wimbledon after going 2 down and having to react rather than be proactive.

We got the win at Northampton but it was a late penalty (they all count) but subs weren't made to try and get the win before the penalty was given.

Stockport we needed a last gasp winner after playing against 10 men at home for an hour.

Yes, results have been fantastic but we've been extremely fortunate in a lot of games. Cal it spirit and never say die attitude if you want but this doesn't have much to do with McSheffery who still looks like he's putting out 11 players and hoping for lady luck to appear. At some point this luck will run out and then it is all about how he responds and how the team responds.

To GM's credit, he seems to identified some useful additions in the summer and brought them in and getting a side to gel within 5/6 league games is very difficult. However, he did bring in some crap last season ( and continued to play them when everyone could see they were crap) other than Josh Martin i'd say.

Before last season ended i said to a mate that if GM is kept on then he'd be sacked or have fans clamouring for his sacking by Christmas and i have to stick to that, despite our league position.

6 league games when we've done well doesn't gloss over the 6 months of absolutely clueless management offered up by GM last season for me and i'll wait a while longer before truly believing we've got the right man and truly turned a corner.

This is certainly the way you would look at it if you were manically depressed or so deeply entrenched in your views (and there are people on Twitter so addicted to the likes that wanting managers sacked get) that you just can’t see out.

A few counter points in the interests of debate:

- Good fortune? What exactly has been lucky about it? The goals we’ve scored have been well worked and generally come at times that we’ve been on top of the game, sometimes after a slow start.

- Substitutions have been made early (which McSheffrey has been criticised for) and he’s now being criticised for making changes too late in a game that we won with what you describe as a “late penalty” with a further 28 minutes to play. Which earlier substitutions would you have made to win the game that we won?

- You say he brought in “crap” last season other than Josh Martin. Are we to assume you’re including Mitchell, Clayton, Younger and Griffiths in that? Mitchell and Clayton in particular have proved to be very astute signings.

- You attribute the “dross” last season to McSheffrey with no mention of:
a) What he inherited and what we saw for 12 months before that.
b) The pick up in performances towards the end of last season.


Now I get that we’ve not fully clicked this season yet, and I totally accept that some people are unlikely to ever back the manager. That’s fine and it’s a personal choice. But to still be rolling out this kind of stuff when we’re third with 14 points from a very tough first 6 games is quite draining. I think we’ll improve as a team, but I also know we’ll hit a sticky patch like all teams do. And it feels like you’re just waiting for that to happen rather than wanting to support the club, players and manager through it. Is wanting to be right really so important that it trumps all else?

[RobTheRover]

Agreed Jonathan. I think Saturday underlined that we are improving every game. Our most complete performance, for me.

[Sammy Chung was King]

He’s had the foresight to add people around him that are capable of giving him more advice than Lee Carsley managed to.
Luck or not, he’s had a good start which I’m happy about. I don’t want him to fail.
I think we have a very capable squad of players to do well in this league. He has experience in the side, that can manage the team on the pitch for him.

Last season has gone but it isn’t forgotten. If he gets us promoted then I can start to forget. It wasn’t all his fault, there were many factors that contributed to relegation. This season is a new start and we are doing well.

[Campsall rover]

Daniel Smith has a valid point but it looks like this forum is following the societal trend of shutting down anyone with an opposing view.

It is a results business and we are near the top of the league and unbeaten and for those fans who simply look at results as markers of managerial ability then it is difficult to argue against their point.

However, many of the results this season have been as a result of good fortune.

How many people at the Sutton game thought we'd even have a decent shot on target let alone score with 5 minutes to go? Lincoln anyone?

Outplayed by Salford before gradually growing into the game.

Saving a draw at Wimbledon after going 2 down and having to react rather than be proactive.

We got the win at Northampton but it was a late penalty (they all count) but subs weren't made to try and get the win before the penalty was given.

Stockport we needed a last gasp winner after playing against 10 men at home for an hour.

Yes, results have been fantastic but we've been extremely fortunate in a lot of games. Cal it spirit and never say die attitude if you want but this doesn't have much to do with McSheffery who still looks like he's putting out 11 players and hoping for lady luck to appear. At some point this luck will run out and then it is all about how he responds and how the team responds.

To GM's credit, he seems to identified some useful additions in the summer and brought them in and getting a side to gel within 5/6 league games is very difficult. However, he did bring in some crap last season ( and continued to play them when everyone could see they were crap) other than Josh Martin i'd say.

Before last season ended i said to a mate that if GM is kept on then he'd be sacked or have fans clamouring for his sacking by Christmas and i have to stick to that, despite our league position.

6 league games when we've done well doesn't gloss over the 6 months of absolutely clueless management offered up by GM last season for me and i'll wait a while longer before truly believing we've got the right man and truly turned a corner.

This is certainly the way you would look at it if you were manically depressed or so deeply entrenched in your views (and there are people on Twitter so addicted to the likes that wanting managers sacked get) that you just can’t see out.

A few counter points in the interests of debate:

- Good fortune? What exactly has been lucky about it? The goals we’ve scored have been well worked and generally come at times that we’ve been on top of the game, sometimes after a slow start.

- Substitutions have been made early (which McSheffrey has been criticised for) and he’s now being criticised for making changes too late in a game that we won with what you describe as a “late penalty” with a further 28 minutes to play. Which earlier substitutions would you have made to win the game that we won?

- You say he brought in “crap” last season other than Josh Martin. Are we to assume you’re including Mitchell, Clayton, Younger and Griffiths in that? Mitchell and Clayton in particular have proved to be very astute signings.

- You attribute the “dross” last season to McSheffrey with no mention of:
a) What he inherited and what we saw for 12 months before that.
b) The pick up in performances towards the end of last season.


Now I get that we’ve not fully clicked this season yet, and I totally accept that some people are unlikely to ever back the manager. That’s fine and it’s a personal choice. But to still be rolling out this kind of stuff when we’re third with 14 points from a very tough first 6 games is quite draining. I think we’ll improve as a team, but I also know we’ll hit a sticky patch like all teams do. And it feels like you’re just waiting for that to happen rather than wanting to support the club, players and manager through it. Is wanting to be right really so important that it trumps all else?

You posted pretty much what I was going to post there Jonathan. Saved me the job.

Not sure how GM was supposed to get a tune out of the strikers he had at his disposal last season.
Yes we should never had gone down but was that GM’s fault or the players fault. 90% the latter imo.
GM wasnt on the pitch was he.
Morecambe away for example 3-0 up and lost. Who’s fault was that. The players totally crumbled. Did GM tell them to play like that 2nd half.  Probably not I suspect.

The recruitment by GM has been excellent and that is showing now.  He is building his own team and has had a brilliant start to this season. Luck what luck. You make your own luck with work rate and a never say die attitude. That’s what this group of players are doing. 
You can be a little lucky once or twice maybe but not 6 games on the bounce.

Injuries permitted this squad are going up this season. I have seen enough already to tell me that will be the end outcome.
We haven’t got out of 3rd gear yet in most games. Just wait till we do.   

[vaya]

Daniel Smith has a valid point but it looks like this forum is following the societal trend of shutting down anyone with an opposing view.

It is a results business and we are near the top of the league and unbeaten and for those fans who simply look at results as markers of managerial ability then it is difficult to argue against their point.

However, many of the results this season have been as a result of good fortune.

How many people at the Sutton game thought we'd even have a decent shot on target let alone score with 5 minutes to go? Lincoln anyone?

Outplayed by Salford before gradually growing into the game.

Saving a draw at Wimbledon after going 2 down and having to react rather than be proactive.

We got the win at Northampton but it was a late penalty (they all count) but subs weren't made to try and get the win before the penalty was given.

Stockport we needed a last gasp winner after playing against 10 men at home for an hour.

Yes, results have been fantastic but we've been extremely fortunate in a lot of games. Cal it spirit and never say die attitude if you want but this doesn't have much to do with McSheffery who still looks like he's putting out 11 players and hoping for lady luck to appear. At some point this luck will run out and then it is all about how he responds and how the team responds.

To GM's credit, he seems to identified some useful additions in the summer and brought them in and getting a side to gel within 5/6 league games is very difficult. However, he did bring in some crap last season ( and continued to play them when everyone could see they were crap) other than Josh Martin i'd say.

Before last season ended i said to a mate that if GM is kept on then he'd be sacked or have fans clamouring for his sacking by Christmas and i have to stick to that, despite our league position.

6 league games when we've done well doesn't gloss over the 6 months of absolutely clueless management offered up by GM last season for me and i'll wait a while longer before truly believing we've got the right man and truly turned a corner.

No one is getting shut down. It's a debate. Point made, counter point made, further counter point made.

You can clearly see the influence of Steve Eyre in performances, and this is the point about GMc learning. Performances at the end of last season's disaster show improved markedly, and if it had happened a few games earlier you could argue, as unjust as it would have been on balance, we could have stayed up.  GMc is soaking up info and is getting excellent help to process it. It's part of his development. He's getting there.

I welcome a debate. Just not abuse. My post earlier was called "the daftest post on here this season". It was also implied I was on drugs which had "clearly addled [my] noggin."

(I know you didn't post that. Just trying to highlight there are some on this forum who don't welcome debate - just abuse).

It's not abuse. It's satire, which is fine.

[Dutch Uncle]

He’s had the foresight to add people around him that are capable of giving him more advice than Lee Carsley managed to.
Luck or not, he’s had a good start which I’m happy about. I don’t want him to fail.
I think we have a very capable squad of players to do well in this league. He has experience in the side, that can manage the team on the pitch for him.

Last season has gone but it isn’t forgotten. If he gets us promoted then I can start to forget. It wasn’t all his fault, there were many factors that contributed to relegation. This season is a new start and we are doing well.

IMHO this is top of the list that all managers in any profession should do. 

[Panda]

Daniel Smith has a valid point but it looks like this forum is following the societal trend of shutting down anyone with an opposing view.

It is a results business and we are near the top of the league and unbeaten and for those fans who simply look at results as markers of managerial ability then it is difficult to argue against their point.

However, many of the results this season have been as a result of good fortune.

How many people at the Sutton game thought we'd even have a decent shot on target let alone score with 5 minutes to go? Lincoln anyone?

Outplayed by Salford before gradually growing into the game.

Saving a draw at Wimbledon after going 2 down and having to react rather than be proactive.

We got the win at Northampton but it was a late penalty (they all count) but subs weren't made to try and get the win before the penalty was given.

Stockport we needed a last gasp winner after playing against 10 men at home for an hour.

Yes, results have been fantastic but we've been extremely fortunate in a lot of games. Cal it spirit and never say die attitude if you want but this doesn't have much to do with McSheffery who still looks like he's putting out 11 players and hoping for lady luck to appear. At some point this luck will run out and then it is all about how he responds and how the team responds.

To GM's credit, he seems to identified some useful additions in the summer and brought them in and getting a side to gel within 5/6 league games is very difficult. However, he did bring in some crap last season ( and continued to play them when everyone could see they were crap) other than Josh Martin i'd say.

Before last season ended i said to a mate that if GM is kept on then he'd be sacked or have fans clamouring for his sacking by Christmas and i have to stick to that, despite our league position.

6 league games when we've done well doesn't gloss over the 6 months of absolutely clueless management offered up by GM last season for me and i'll wait a while longer before truly believing we've got the right man and truly turned a corner.

This is certainly the way you would look at it if you were manically depressed or so deeply entrenched in your views (and there are people on Twitter so addicted to the likes that wanting managers sacked get) that you just can’t see out.

A few counter points in the interests of debate:

- Good fortune? What exactly has been lucky about it? The goals we’ve scored have been well worked and generally come at times that we’ve been on top of the game, sometimes after a slow start.

- Substitutions have been made early (which McSheffrey has been criticised for) and he’s now being criticised for making changes too late in a game that we won with what you describe as a “late penalty” with a further 28 minutes to play. Which earlier substitutions would you have made to win the game that we won?

- You say he brought in “crap” last season other than Josh Martin. Are we to assume you’re including Mitchell, Clayton, Younger and Griffiths in that? Mitchell and Clayton in particular have proved to be very astute signings.

- You attribute the “dross” last season to McSheffrey with no mention of:
a) What he inherited and what we saw for 12 months before that.
b) The pick up in performances towards the end of last season.


Now I get that we’ve not fully clicked this season yet, and I totally accept that some people are unlikely to ever back the manager. That’s fine and it’s a personal choice. But to still be rolling out this kind of stuff when we’re third with 14 points from a very tough first 6 games is quite draining. I think we’ll improve as a team, but I also know we’ll hit a sticky patch like all teams do. And it feels like you’re just waiting for that to happen rather than wanting to support the club, players and manager through it. Is wanting to be right really so important that it trumps all else?

It has nothing to do with being right. I have an opinion about GM and that is gradually changing from one i had of a bloke completely out of his depth for 6 months of last season to someone who is showing signs of learning and displaying some acumen. I don't care about the difficulties of last season. He took the job on and convinced the hierarchy that he was the man for the job and I didn't see much evidence of that for 6 months.

If we are in and around the top 6 / 8 come Christmas then i can revise my view for the positive but i'm not getting carried away by 6 games. That's madness.

If GM gets us to to play offs minimum then he's done a good job and would be worthy of all the praise and plaudits. Anything less and he hasn't done a good job and would deserve the criticism. After 6 games though nobody is right or wrong because it is too early to judge. It isn't too early to have either concerns or optimism. It all depends on how each individual perceives the first 5/6 games overall.

A more accurate state of where we are and how GM is doing will be gleaned at Christmas. A definitive picture of where we are and how GM is doing will be gleaned at the end of the season.

If this sensible and balanced view makes me a manic depressive then it's a good job you aren't a GP Jonathan. 

[dickos1]

My personal view is we've managed to string these results together in spite of McSheffrey, not because of him.

I think the growing list of injuries is a concern too. Why are we suffering with so many, mirroring last season with the injury list in a lot of respects.

I'm certainly glad we're doing well. Automatic promotion = a successful season in my book.

Probably the daftest post on here this season. You are implying that the manager/head coach of the team is an impediment rather than a catalyst?

GMc always needed time to clean up the disaster of last season, sweep clean, assemble his pwn squad and staff and introduce a culture, an identity. He’s always impressed me with his reading of games but didn’t have the tools for the job.

No he’s got those tools and we’ve won 4 and drawn 2, and STILL have some very good players to come back.

I don’t know what you’re huffing mate, but it’s clearly addled your noggin.

Ah yes. I forgot I wasn't allowed a contrasting view to the "Saint McSheffrey" brigade. I'm glad you obviously have a really short term memory and totally forgot about his managerial performance last season.

The abuse anyone who dares try and say anything against the club, board or manager gets on this forum should shock me. It doesn't anymore.

It’s an embarrassing post purely because you can’t bring yourself to admit you were wrong

[Bessie Red]

GMS is in his very first managerial post and one that he probably wasnt sure whether to take or not! He has made many mistakes and ultimately we were relegated due to a combination of a poor squad and a naive rookie manager.
However, imo, it is more than plain to see that in the last few weeks of last season and the whole of the close season a laser sharp focus has been given to providing GMS with the support network he needed, with the appointment of HOF, and Steve Eyre as an experienced & knowledgeable assistant. Everything has been geared to improve GMS as a manager and I think we are beginning to see results. He is much calmer in his interviews and provides very honest assessments of the games & he now seems to make the right substitutions at the right time to change the pattern of games. He is by far not the finished article and will continue to make the odd mistake however I firmly believe that given time he could be our very own Paul Warne type of manager, by that I mean one who can get the best out of what he has. I agree it is early days but sometimes you need the luck we have had to get to where you need to be. If I saw the exavt same manager as last season then I would be deeply worried, but I dont & I think only those who have never wanted GMS, would say that there hasnt been an improvement in his performances.

[BillyStubbsTears]

To say we've been "extremely fortunate" is just nonsense.

We organised ourselves superbly against Bradford.

We ground down Sutton in the second half. They had 1 (off target) shot in the second half as we took control of the game. The fact that we scored late is irrelevant. We stuck to an approach and it worked.

Stockport, we played the perfect game against 10 men and could have scored half a dozen.

Salford, we started poorly but once we got half a yard closer to them, we broke down their passing game and took control. Then relatively easily closed out the game.

Northampton, we did a classic promotion contender job. Controlled much of the game, barely gave them a chance and forced them into an error.

This is starting to look like a very strong side.

[Panda]

Yes but you could also argue that we could and should have been 2 or 3 down at home to both Sutton and Salford before we finally got going. Then 2 goals would either have gotten us a draw or a loss.

Which goes someway to explaining the luck we've had with the late goals. Getting late goals out of the blue isn't a deliberate tactic, it's good fortune for a lot of the time because we always start so slowly and give ourselves loads to do.

Salford also hit the post second half.

[Campsall rover]

GMS is in his very first managerial post and one that he probably wasnt sure whether to take or not! He has made many mistakes and ultimately we were relegated due to a combination of a poor squad and a naive rookie manager.
However, imo, it is more than plain to see that in the last few weeks of last season and the whole of the close season a laser sharp focus has been given to providing GMS with the support network he needed, with the appointment of HOF, and Steve Eyre as an experienced & knowledgeable assistant. Everything has been geared to improve GMS as a manager and I think we are beginning to see results. He is much calmer in his interviews and provides very honest assessments of the games & he now seems to make the right substitutions at the right time to change the pattern of games. He is by far not the finished article and will continue to make the odd mistake however I firmly believe that given time he could be our very own Paul Warne type of manager, by that I mean one who can get the best out of what he has. I agree it is early days but sometimes you need the luck we have had to get to where you need to be. If I saw the exavt same manager as last season then I would be deeply worried, but I dont & I think only those who have never wanted GMS, would say that there hasnt been an improvement in his performances.

Yes GM probably made some mistakes last season but look at the tools he had to work with.
He had a rookie assistant in Sinclair ( albeit a very good youth coach ) and he inherited a squad bereft of confidence and one that wasn’t anywhere near fit enough. He was without 3 key players in Anderson, Close & Taylor throughout his tenure last season. He also didn’t have one striker good enough for league 2 let alone league 1  As for his subs last season well he didn’t have anyone to bring on that could make a difference did he.
A manager is only as good as the tools at his disposal.  The improvement from late March was considerable it just came too late.

This season as you say Bessie Red he has a HoF in Copps, a very experienced assistant in Steve Eyre. A very good goalkeeping coach in Ian Bennett.
He has brought in some cracking players older experienced some and younger players to give the squad balance.
The squad is fit to play a full 95+ mins and the players are as fit to run in the 95th min as they are in the 1st min.
I think we have potentially a very good manager in the making.

If anyone isn’t satisfied with 14 points from the 1st 6 games and still think he isn’t up to the job, then I give up.
There were a few on here said we wouldn’t get 7 points from the 1st 7 games. We are still work in progress and have 3 of our best players sidelined still. 
This squad when all fully fit ( if that happens) is the best one in this league.

It is very positive from where I am sat and think there is a hell of a lot more to come from this squad this season.
Early days yes but I am backing us to win the league as I said before a ball was kicked.

[scawsby steve]

Yes but you could also argue that we could and should have been 2 or 3 down at home to both Sutton and Salford before we finally got going. Then 2 goals would either have gotten us a draw or a loss.

Which goes someway to explaining the luck we've had with the late goals. Getting late goals out of the blue isn't a deliberate tactic, it's good fortune for a lot of the time because we always start so slowly and give ourselves loads to do.

Salford also hit the post second half.

If we're talking about the woodwork, Panda, don't forget Tomlin thundered against it twice against Stockport.

Look, it's swings and roundabouts. I said on here a few days ago that we wouldn't keep getting away with slow starts, and we need to come out of the traps quicker, which we apparently did on Saturday.

We've not fully clicked yet, and when we do, some team's going to get a right mullering.

[selby]

  Panda, Daniel, your not kidding me about Six games and not judging anyone, if we had lost four, five, or six of those games you would have been making more noise than a can of marbles shook in a small toilet.
   Give over disappointment shows in every every word you write, you would have had the old clay pipe out leading the horse and cart to the guillotine with Gary McSheffrey on the cart, it's killing you.
  On a personal note, I can't stop smiling.

[danumdon]

Yes but you could also argue that we could and should have been 2 or 3 down at home to both Sutton and Salford before we finally got going. Then 2 goals would either have gotten us a draw or a loss.

Which goes someway to explaining the luck we've had with the late goals. Getting late goals out of the blue isn't a deliberate tactic, it's good fortune for a lot of the time because we always start so slowly and give ourselves loads to do.

Salford also hit the post second half.

Isn't it weird that the better we perform the luckier we get?

IF we can't all acknowledge that the progression this season (even with just 6 games) from the management, players, conditioners, physios is light years away from last season debacle then we really are just making noise for the sake of it.

[Lesonthewest]

Daniel Smith has a valid point but it looks like this forum is following the societal trend of shutting down anyone with an opposing view.

It is a results business and we are near the top of the league and unbeaten and for those fans who simply look at results as markers of managerial ability then it is difficult to argue against their point.

However, many of the results this season have been as a result of good fortune.

How many people at the Sutton game thought we'd even have a decent shot on target let alone score with 5 minutes to go? Lincoln anyone?

Outplayed by Salford before gradually growing into the game.

Saving a draw at Wimbledon after going 2 down and having to react rather than be proactive.

We got the win at Northampton but it was a late penalty (they all count) but subs weren't made to try and get the win before the penalty was given.

Stockport we needed a last gasp winner after playing against 10 men at home for an hour.

Yes, results have been fantastic but we've been extremely fortunate in a lot of games. Cal it spirit and never say die attitude if you want but this doesn't have much to do with McSheffery who still looks like he's putting out 11 players and hoping for lady luck to appear. At some point this luck will run out and then it is all about how he responds and how the team responds.

To GM's credit, he seems to identified some useful additions in the summer and brought them in and getting a side to gel within 5/6 league games is very difficult. However, he did bring in some crap last season ( and continued to play them when everyone could see they were crap) other than Josh Martin i'd say.

Before last season ended i said to a mate that if GM is kept on then he'd be sacked or have fans clamouring for his sacking by Christmas and i have to stick to that, despite our league position.

6 league games when we've done well doesn't gloss over the 6 months of absolutely clueless management offered up by GM last season for me and i'll wait a while longer before truly believing we've got the right man and truly turned a corner.

This is certainly the way you would look at it if you were manically depressed or so deeply entrenched in your views (and there are people on Twitter so addicted to the likes that wanting managers sacked get) that you just can’t see out.

A few counter points in the interests of debate:

- Good fortune? What exactly has been lucky about it? The goals we’ve scored have been well worked and generally come at times that we’ve been on top of the game, sometimes after a slow start.

- Substitutions have been made early (which McSheffrey has been criticised for) and he’s now being criticised for making changes too late in a game that we won with what you describe as a “late penalty” with a further 28 minutes to play. Which earlier substitutions would you have made to win the game that we won?

- You say he brought in “crap” last season other than Josh Martin. Are we to assume you’re including Mitchell, Clayton, Younger and Griffiths in that? Mitchell and Clayton in particular have proved to be very astute signings.

- You attribute the “dross” last season to McSheffrey with no mention of:
a) What he inherited and what we saw for 12 months before that.
b) The pick up in performances towards the end of last season.


Now I get that we’ve not fully clicked this season yet, and I totally accept that some people are unlikely to ever back the manager. That’s fine and it’s a personal choice. But to still be rolling out this kind of stuff when we’re third with 14 points from a very tough first 6 games is quite draining. I think we’ll improve as a team, but I also know we’ll hit a sticky patch like all teams do. And it feels like you’re just waiting for that to happen rather than wanting to support the club, players and manager through it. Is wanting to be right really so important that it trumps all else?

It has nothing to do with being right. I have an opinion about GM and that is gradually changing from one i had of a bloke completely out of his depth for 6 months of last season to someone who is showing signs of learning and displaying some acumen. I don't care about the difficulties of last season. He took the job on and convinced the hierarchy that he was the man for the job and I didn't see much evidence of that for 6 months.

If we are in and around the top 6 / 8 come Christmas then i can revise my view for the positive but i'm not getting carried away by 6 games. That's madness.

If GM gets us to to play offs minimum then he's done a good job and would be worthy of all the praise and plaudits. Anything less and he hasn't done a good job and would deserve the criticism. After 6 games though nobody is right or wrong because it is too early to judge. It isn't too early to have either concerns or optimism. It all depends on how each individual perceives the first 5/6 games overall.

A more accurate state of where we are and how GM is doing will be gleaned at Christmas. A definitive picture of where we are and how GM is doing will be gleaned at the end of the season.

If this sensible and balanced view makes me a manic depressive then it's a good job you aren't a GP Jonathan. 

While I disagree with some of your comments Panda, they should be seen as your opinion & contested with proper debate, but I'm afraid you are always going to get childish petty comments thrown at you by some posters, just rise above it.