Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Filo on April 21, 2018, 05:21:21 pm
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Alcock, Blair, Kongolo, and May, need to find better than these
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It’s a disgrace that fergie pocked kongolo he’s not once shown he’s worth a place in the team all season!!
Matty is a good squad player but he shouldn’t be relied on as a 1st choice imo
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Spot on filo add mandeville Lund williams Evina to that list.
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Add McCullough to those and Whiteman runs them close.
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Jesus! If all that lot is not good enough we're going to need a new team next season! Totally agree about Kongolo though, I have no idea what Ferguson, or anyone else sees in him.
Can't comment on anything too 're sent though having not been for over 3 months
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We had one player today - Marquis. That's about it.
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We had one player today - Marquis. That's about it.
He’s been the best player for weeks now
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Thought Whiteman was ok
It was painful watching Alcock and May with McCullough not far behind
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Alcock, Blair, Kongolo, and May, need to find better than these
Agree with all four of those today. Blair has upside and needs to play out wide or else it's useless him being on really.
The other three however can all go for me. Alcock is very poor these days, May showed nowhere near enough substance again and Kongolo is a joke. He went down with cramp? Then straight down the tunnel with his head down low. He's never looked like he wants to be here and needs to shape up big time if he wants to make it as a professional footballer. Waste of a squad space all season.
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By comparison, in the modern age (i.e. post-Richardson) we have played in the third tier for a total of eight seasons, including this season, under Penney, SOD, Saunders/Flynn, Dickov and Ferguson.
Aside from the relegation season under Ferguson which was clearly the worst season, we might struggle not to turn in the second worst season this season. We would need 8 points from our remaining four games in order to avoid this.
2004/5 - 66 points (10th place)
2005/6 - 69 points (8th)
2006/7 - 63 points (11th)
2007/8 - 80 points (3rd)
2012/13 - 84 points (1st)
2014/15 - 61 points (13th)
2015/16 - 46 points (21st)
2017/18 - 54 points currently and max points possible 66 points
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Add McCullough to those and Whiteman runs them close.
All about opinions. I thought McCullough had a good game today apart from the mistake that led to the goal.
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Pointless post really as players shouldn’t be judged on just today’s showing.
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If the expectation this season was midtable and we achieve midtable.
Who on earth cares what we did when we were spending fortunes and were amongst the favourites for promotion?
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A few players had terrible games but Kongolo faked an injury to be subbed off. Should never wear the shirt again!!
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Add McCullough to those and Whiteman runs them close.
All about opinions. I thought McCullough had a good game today apart from the mistake that led to the goal.
I don't even blame him for that, whoever gave him the pass fired it at him, into a position of much pressure and he couldn't do a lot. I agree he had a decent game compared to most today.
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If the expectation this season was midtable and we achieve midtable.
Who on earth cares what we did when we were spending fortunes and were amongst the favourites for promotion?
People who pay hard earned money to be served up lack of effort care. What a stupid post.
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McCullough showed he’s slow of thought slow on his feet. He’s one of a very poor midfield, which as been the worst part of the team all season but today was the worst I’ve seen in years at this level.
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I wish Ferguson would come on here and explain just what he sees in Kongolo. He contributed nothing today and hasn't anytime I've seen him.
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McCullough showed he’s slow of thought slow on his feet. He’s one of a very poor midfield, which as been the worst part of the team all season but today was the worst I’ve seen in years at this level.
Give over
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Jesus! If all that lot is not good enough we're going to need a new team next season! Totally agree about Kongolo though, I have no idea what Ferguson, or anyone else sees in him.
Can't comment on anything too 're sent though having not been for over 3 months
never had a game in his natural role of defensive midfielder. Might help the kid.
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To be fair I think we need better than what McCullough brings, but thought he did ok today, Kongolo on the other hand is a waste of a shirt, truly awful today & have a feeling he was relieved to be subbed.
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A few players had terrible games but Kongolo faked an injury to be subbed off. Should never wear the shirt again!!
Eh !
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Jesus! If all that lot is not good enough we're going to need a new team next season! Totally agree about Kongolo though, I have no idea what Ferguson, or anyone else sees in him.
Can't comment on anything too 're sent though having not been for over 3 months
never had a game in his natural role of defensive midfielder. Might help the kid.
How many times have you seen him play?
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Kongolo for what ever reason is totally lacking in confidence. As soon as he gets the ball he wants rid, tries to give it to anybody in red shirt regardless of whether they are in position to receive it.
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Enough. The lad is man city under 23 captain and youth international so he can't be that bad.
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We've watched him all year and he's been crap. He's never a defensive midfielder either, not got the strength nor the commitment for it.
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you've never seen him play there so how can you judge.
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you've never seen him play there so how can you judge.
Because I've watched him in midfield all season and can see what qualities he does and doesn't possess. Same way I know Butler would be no good as a left winger.
How many times have you seen Kongolo play holding midfield?
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A few players had terrible games but Kongolo faked an injury to be subbed off. Should never wear the shirt again!!
Eh !
There is no way he was injured. Went down and put his leg up for cramp, he then hobbled so far then jogged the last 10 yards. Just looked as if he'd given up and wanted off. Be surprised if we ever see him in a shirt again. Man city U23 captain or not, he's going to end up none league..
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If the expectation this season was midtable and we achieve midtable.
Who on earth cares what we did when we were spending fortunes and were amongst the favourites for promotion?
People who pay hard earned money to be served up lack of effort care. What a stupid post.
Ok, yes they may care. But surely they’ve enough about them to realise a side just gaining promotion is hardly a comparative side to one that was spending a lot of money on top players at this level to gain promotion.
And one that was amongst the favourites for promotion.
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Our budget this season top 8.
We are not on rations.
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Pointless post really as players shouldn’t be judged on just today’s showing.
Quite. A squad is not judged on one game. Though I agree that Kongolo certainly & the ones out on loan can go.
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Our budget this season top 8.
We are not on rations.
We were signing top league one players on massive wages, were not doing anything like that now.
No matter what distain you have for Ferguson you can acknowledge that
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I have expressed no view on Ferguson in this thread.
What you have is objective fact.
We are not on rations and have a good, solid budget, which is top 8.
Whether Ferguson is to blame, or the players, a combination of both, of the famed Gypsy's Curse somehow following us from Belle Vue, is irrelevant to this.
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Where's the proof we have a top 8 budget again? I genuinely can't remember where that's come from.
Comparing to our worst season under Dickov is rubbish because now we're coming up from a lower league, then we were on the way down and still recovering from the mess that was the experiment.
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McCullough has shown numerous times he's a good player and anyone who judges players on just one game is a retard.
Today he gave fringe players a chance to prove themselves for next season and they didn't. You can't berate him for testing out the fringe players when were 99% safe.
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
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Can someone point out where this top 8 budget has been published?
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It isn't and it never will be!
If we have a top 8 budget, I will be extremely surprised. However, we are going to need it this summer. We are nowhere near a strong enough squad. Clear out?
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Our budget two year ago was top 8. It isn't now.
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I agree
But even if it was, it’s not set in stone that you’ll do well,
Look at chesterfield, look at bury, look at Accrington, look at Shrewsbury
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Can someone point out where this top 8 budget has been published?
No they can’t, not in the public domain.
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
Sorry Dickos you could be right but you can’t say fact because it’s not published in the public domain.
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Can someone point out where this top 8 budget has been published?
No they can’t, not in the public domain.
So it's a figment of someone's imagination is it?
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Can someone point out where this top 8 budget has been published?
No they can’t, not in the public domain.
So it's a figment of someone's imagination is it?
No but he relys someone knowing but it’s not available for everyone to see.
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
Sorry Dickos you could be right but you can’t say fact because it’s not published in the public domain.
What’s not??
We were signing players like hayter, o Connor, wellens, roberts,
We’re now signing youngsters!
This is in the public domain
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Can someone point out where this top 8 budget has been published?
No they can’t, not in the public domain.
So it's a figment of someone's imagination is it?
No but he relys someone knowing but it’s not available for everyone to see.
So who is this HE who knows what the budget is and also every other clubs budget?
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But the facts we can see is the players in our midfield whatever they are paid have been a let down this season and are the weakest part of the team. We need either them to improve or we need to bring in better with what ever budget we have.
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Can someone point out where this top 8 budget has been published?
No they can’t, not in the public domain.
So it's a figment of someone's imagination is it?
No but he relys someone knowing but it’s not available for everyone to see.
So who is this HE who knows what the budget is and also every other clubs budget?
Typing error he.
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But the facts we can see is the players in our midfield whatever they are paid have been a let down this season and are the weakest part of the team. We need either them to improve or we need to bring in better with what ever budget we have.
Might be the case but we were discussing the relative budgets of when we were pushing for promotion out of this league and what we have now.
It’s obviously miles apart
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
You have no idea what my motovation was to make that post. You have made up my motivation.
I did not claim you said we were on rations. This is something you have made up.
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
Sorry Dickos you could be right but you can’t say fact because it’s not published in the public domain.
What’s not??
We were signing players like hayter, o Connor, wellens, roberts,
We’re now signing youngsters!
This is in the public domain
Weird that, a manager known for taking a punt on younger players to flog for big bucks signing young players that can be developed to probably sell on at a profit, eh...
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Most Teams try to keep a stable Team and really hate it when Players get injured or suspended which disrupts them.
We seem not to bother with such things as that and disrupt our own Team with changes (for whatever reason the Manager decides) which has exactly the same effect
True it was a poor draw against Bury in the end but we did set off like a house on fire until the own goal so why not stick with the vast majority of that side ?
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The tinker man.
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Alcock, Blair, Kongolo, and May, need to find better than these
Add, 'can't cross the ball' Mason to this list
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Not judging on just one game - in my opinion McCullough is not good enough for a starting role either at CB or midfield
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McCullough has shown numerous times he's a good player and anyone who judges players on just one game is a retard.
Today he gave fringe players a chance to prove themselves for next season and they didn't. You can't berate him for testing out the fringe players when were 99% safe.
Agreed about judging a player on one game, but we saw a lot of McCullough’s weaknesses as a midfield player today. He mis-controlled several simple balls. One of them, leading to the break from which they scored, was dreadful. He misplaced several simple passes. Yes he gives us some physical presence in that position and that helps, but if you’re a profligate with possession as he was today, you’re putting the team at a major disadvantage.
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
Sorry Dickos you could be right but you can’t say fact because it’s not published in the public domain.
What’s not??
We were signing players like hayter, o Connor, wellens, roberts,
We’re now signing youngsters!
This is in the public domain
Weird that, a manager known for taking a punt on younger players to flog for big bucks signing young players that can be developed to probably sell on at a profit, eh...
Why is it weird?
So you’re saying if he had the money that Penney and sod had he’d still be signing youngsters with no experience of this level?
I’m pretty sure he’d be signing experienced top notch league one players just as Penney and sod did
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I sit behind the dugouts and fergie was about to sub roddy before he went down injured or not
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May had a good game today not his fault nothing came from midfield they was crap
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
You have no idea what my motovation was to make that post. You have made up my motivation.
I did not claim you said we were on rations. This is something you have made up.
I have a pretty good idea comrade,
I think it would be pretty hard to find a post of yours that isn’t having a sly or not so sly dig at him.
And in my opinion no way is our budget top 8, and even if it was, stevie wonder could see it’s nothing like the one we had in most of those years you’re trying to compare this season to
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
Sorry Dickos you could be right but you can’t say fact because it’s not published in the public domain.
What’s not??
We were signing players like hayter, o Connor, wellens, roberts,
We’re now signing youngsters!
This is in the public domain
Weird that, a manager known for taking a punt on younger players to flog for big bucks signing young players that can be developed to probably sell on at a profit, eh...
Why is it weird?
So you’re saying if he had the money that Penney and sod had he’d still be signing youngsters with no experience of this level?
I’m pretty sure he’d be signing experienced top notch league one players just as Penney and sod did
The man has a history of signing young players. Why does it strike you as a sign of our budget that he is doing what he's always done?
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
You have no idea what my motovation was to make that post. You have made up my motivation.
I did not claim you said we were on rations. This is something you have made up.
I have a pretty good idea comrade,
I think it would be pretty hard to find a post of yours that isn’t having a sly or not so sly dig at him.
And in my opinion no way is our budget top 8, and even if it was, stevie wonder could see it’s nothing like the one we had in most of those years you’re trying to compare this season to
And not for the first time you would be wrong. We definitely have a budget firmly in the top 10 and by careful evaluation you can ascertain that we sit somewhere about 8th place. If you spend as much time talking to people at the EFL as I do then you can work out the exact position. The transfer windows have a habit of upsetting the pecking order but it soon becomes apparent where you are. The EFL even tell each club where they are in terms of budget.
You could take my word at face value, or you could wait about 18 months for all clubs to publish their accounts, but it will become apparent sooner or later.
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Bet it'll come down when Williams goes.
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May had a good game today not his fault nothing came from midfield they was crap
You were n't at the same game as me if you think that, he was awful, muscled out of everything, he is not a L1 player
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
You have no idea what my motovation was to make that post. You have made up my motivation.
I did not claim you said we were on rations. This is something you have made up.
I have a pretty good idea comrade,
I think it would be pretty hard to find a post of yours that isn’t having a sly or not so sly dig at him.
And in my opinion no way is our budget top 8, and even if it was, stevie wonder could see it’s nothing like the one we had in most of those years you’re trying to compare this season to
And not for the first time you would be wrong. We definitely have a budget firmly in the top 10 and by careful evaluation you can ascertain that we sit somewhere about 8th place. If you spend as much time talking to people at the EFL as I do then you can work out the exact position. The transfer windows have a habit of upsetting the pecking order but it soon becomes apparent where you are. The EFL even tell each club where they are in terms of budget.
You could take my word at face value, or you could wait about 18 months for all clubs to publish their accounts, but it will become apparent sooner or later.
Don’t start with all the condescending nonsense Martin
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
Sorry Dickos you could be right but you can’t say fact because it’s not published in the public domain.
What’s not??
We were signing players like hayter, o Connor, wellens, roberts,
We’re now signing youngsters!
This is in the public domain
Weird that, a manager known for taking a punt on younger players to flog for big bucks signing young players that can be developed to probably sell on at a profit, eh...
Why is it weird?
So you’re saying if he had the money that Penney and sod had he’d still be signing youngsters with no experience of this level?
I’m pretty sure he’d be signing experienced top notch league one players just as Penney and sod did
The man has a history of signing young players. Why does it strike you as a sign of our budget that he is doing what he's always done?
He also has a history of spending a lot more money on players than he has done for us.
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But again, budget comparisons are all relative and it doesn't tell the whole story. It's not necessarily how big it is but how you use it (or waste it whichever way you want to look at it)
A fair amount of this seasons budget has been taken up with players who have no future and long term injuries. Sure, every team will have their fair of injuries and that's where you need a bit of luck to stay relatively injury free, especially to key players.
I'm more concerned about how players progress/develop. I don't think DF has the same coaching skills as SO'D but he may have advantages in other areas. I can't say there's many players that have improved under DF and the mental toughness seems to be lacking at times.
As said, with departing players, it should free up decent funds for DF to get some quality in key areas.
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May had a good game today not his fault nothing came from midfield they was crap
Is that a joke??? May was the worse player on the pitch by a country mile
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May had a good game today not his fault nothing came from midfield they was crap
Is that a joke??? May was the worse player on the pitch by a country mile
Absolute rubbish........... Your comment, not May's performance. He did nothing wrong. He got absolutely no service.
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Have you got Alcock blindness?
The next worst player was the entire midfield!
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
You have no idea what my motovation was to make that post. You have made up my motivation.
I did not claim you said we were on rations. This is something you have made up.
I have a pretty good idea comrade,
I think it would be pretty hard to find a post of yours that isn’t having a sly or not so sly dig at him.
And in my opinion no way is our budget top 8, and even if it was, stevie wonder could see it’s nothing like the one we had in most of those years you’re trying to compare this season to
And not for the first time you would be wrong. We definitely have a budget firmly in the top 10 and by careful evaluation you can ascertain that we sit somewhere about 8th place. If you spend as much time talking to people at the EFL as I do then you can work out the exact position. The transfer windows have a habit of upsetting the pecking order but it soon becomes apparent where you are. The EFL even tell each club where they are in terms of budget.
You could take my word at face value, or you could wait about 18 months for all clubs to publish their accounts, but it will become apparent sooner or later.
Don’t start with all the condescending nonsense Martin
You shouldn't make claims that you can't support.
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I haven’t
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
Sorry Dickos you could be right but you can’t say fact because it’s not published in the public domain.
What’s not??
We were signing players like hayter, o Connor, wellens, roberts,
We’re now signing youngsters!
This is in the public domain
Weird that, a manager known for taking a punt on younger players to flog for big bucks signing young players that can be developed to probably sell on at a profit, eh...
Why is it weird?
So you’re saying if he had the money that Penney and sod had he’d still be signing youngsters with no experience of this level?
I’m pretty sure he’d be signing experienced top notch league one players just as Penney and sod did
The man has a history of signing young players. Why does it strike you as a sign of our budget that he is doing what he's always done?
He also has a history of spending a lot more money on players than he has done for us.
So we didn't spend six figures on Ben Whiteman? a lot would argue that's a lot of money at this level.
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You wouldn’t have made the post you did if you hadn’t a problem with Ferguson.
Nowhere have I suggested we’re on rations, just simply stated we are not dining at the same table as we were then.
Also fact
Sorry Dickos you could be right but you can’t say fact because it’s not published in the public domain.
What’s not??
We were signing players like hayter, o Connor, wellens, roberts,
We’re now signing youngsters!
This is in the public domain
Weird that, a manager known for taking a punt on younger players to flog for big bucks signing young players that can be developed to probably sell on at a profit, eh...
Why is it weird?
So you’re saying if he had the money that Penney and sod had he’d still be signing youngsters with no experience of this level?
I’m pretty sure he’d be signing experienced top notch league one players just as Penney and sod did
The man has a history of signing young players. Why does it strike you as a sign of our budget that he is doing what he's always done?
He also has a history of spending a lot more money on players than he has done for us.
So we didn't spend six figures on Ben Whiteman? a lot would argue that's a lot of money at this level.
Your right some would, but you’re changing the arguement.
Ferguson spent millions at Peterborough much more money than we’ve ever spent.
So it’s not the case that he’s known for taking a punt on youngsters. And he’s certainly not following the model he had at Peterborough with us.
In his second spell he spent around 8 million just on transfer fees alone.
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Dickos- you seem to be saying that Fergie is a "chequebook manager." If that's the case, he doesn't really fit our business model.
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That was mostly reinvestments from players sold. If we sold Beestin for £5million, I'm sure we'd use some of that to strengthening the team again and potentially sign a player worth a million or so.
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Dickos- you seem to be saying that Fergie is a "chequebook manager." If that's the case, he doesn't really fit our business model.
I’m not, I’m just pointing out he’s not doing now what he did at Peterborough
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Players worth a million would cost too much in wages to bring them here, even if we had the means to pay the fee.
I’d like to see us source players with the potential to increase in value. I’m sure there must be plenty of targets out there.
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That was mostly reinvestments from players sold. If we sold Beestin for £5million, I'm sure we'd use some of that to strengthening the team again and potentially sign a player worth a million or so.
I agree,
Clubs don’t spend money like they did then though, Peterborough were selling players for 5-6 million in league one.
And buying players for 1-2 million on quite a regular basis.
Doesn’t really happen now
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That was mostly reinvestments from players sold. If we sold Beestin for £5million, I'm sure we'd use some of that to strengthening the team again and potentially sign a player worth a million or so.
I agree,
Clubs don’t spend money like they did then though, Peterborough were selling players for 5-6 million in league one.
And buying players for 1-2 million on quite a regular basis.
Doesn’t really happen now
Thing is though he needs to sign the players to find that one gem, if May turned into the next Charlie Austin then he would be the start of that but unfortunately it doesn't look like it, he just needs to keep signing those unknown quantities and hopefully one of them turns out to be a gem.
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Yes I agree, mason has the potential to go for a big fee as does beestin, whiteman, Wright, McCullough and houghton if we sign him
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I’d like to see us source players with the potential to increase in value. I’m sure there must be plenty of targets out there.
Players like Mason, Whiteman, Lawlor, Wright, Houghton and Marquis?
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That was mostly reinvestments from players sold. If we sold Beestin for £5million, I'm sure we'd use some of that to strengthening the team again and potentially sign a player worth a million or so.
I agree,
Clubs don’t spend money like they did then though, Peterborough were selling players for 5-6 million in league one.
And buying players for 1-2 million on quite a regular basis.
Doesn’t really happen now
So you agree that he signed players for Peterborough to sell on at a profit which funded these massive fees, yet he's not doing what he did at Peterborough? which is it? :laugh:
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Marquis came to us an OK League Two striker now he's got 14 in League One and definitely established at this level. His value must have sky rocketed.
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That was mostly reinvestments from players sold. If we sold Beestin for £5million, I'm sure we'd use some of that to strengthening the team again and potentially sign a player worth a million or so.
I agree,
Clubs don’t spend money like they did then though, Peterborough were selling players for 5-6 million in league one.
And buying players for 1-2 million on quite a regular basis.
Doesn’t really happen now
So you agree that he signed players for Peterborough to sell on at a profit which funded these massive fees, yet he's not doing what he did at Peterborough? which is it? :laugh:
It’s not the case I’m afraid, the first two seasons he spent almost 8 million and recouped about half of that.
So yes he was spending money on youngesters but they were very expensive youngsters.
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But you said if he had money he'd be signing experienced players... yet, when he did have money, he spent it on youngsters?
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He didn’t though
He spend well over a million on Tyrone Barnett, half a million on Michael bostwick, I remember he once signed Torres from Wycombe.
My only point was that if he had the money sod and Penney had then he’d be signing more experienced players. Never said he wouldn’t sign any youngsters.
But he’d definitely be signing players in their mid twenties with lots of experience at this level
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I’d like to see us source players with the potential to increase in value. I’m sure there must be plenty of targets out there.
Players like Mason, Whiteman, Lawlor, Wright, Houghton and Marquis?
Yes, exactly. I certainly wasn’t suggesting we hadn’t done that already to some degree.