A Good Article

[Mustapha-Dump]

Well written, I'm not against this proposed takeover like I was the SC one, the only thing that's really annoying me is he isn't 'rovers till he dies' as claimed in the article, he's always been a Man U fan. Fair enough he's giving us some PR at the right time so it's hard to be too narked off! But I just don't like seeing 'buying his boyhood club' when we weren't

[BobG]

That's a misuse of terms Sad - designed to mislead and to support an argument you never tire of forcing down peoples throats.

The directors of the VSC represent the members of the VSC. They have no remit to represent others - but as that throng of people are not represented by any other body, it is natural and inevitable that the views and opinions of the VSC members are extrapolated by the wider world to be those of the wider circle of supporters also. It is wrong therefore for you to seek to abuse the VSC directors for something over which they have no control; against which they repeatedly struggle and from which they get nothing but ill judged grief from the maladroit like you.

Cheers

BobG

[Sad-Rovers]

That's a misuse of terms Sad - designed to mislead and to support an argument you never tire of forcing down peoples throats.

The directors of the VSC represent the members of the VSC. They have no remit to represent others - but as that throng of people are not represented by any other body, it is natural and inevitable that the views and opinions of the VSC members are extrapolated by the wider world to be those of the wider circle of supporters also. It is wrong therefore for you to seek to abuse the VSC directors for something over which they have no control; against which they repeatedly struggle and from which they get nothing but ill judged grief from the maladroit like you.

Cheers

BobG

I'm quoting directly from the VSC Bob, I'm not sure how I can misrepresent with a direct, unedited quote...

Anyway, I'm a VSC member, do they represent my views Bob?

[streatham dave]

Just one quick point. The guy who wrote this doesn't claim to be the voice of us all/VSC. He is expressing his personal feelings. I agree with him, others won't. I've talked to James at a couple of Rovers games. The only difference between James and any other fan is that he clearly has contacts in the media and writes for a living. It stretches credibility for me to assume this piece is some sort of plant, although I could be wrong. Most of us on here will have no sway in the takeover. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't be concerned. Maybe however, we could see what unfolds and chill a bit. People (in general) seem to be getting a bit tetchy with each other. Will be glad when it's all sorted and we can start to look at photos of trialists again. 

[BobG]

Sad

1) You can misrepresent very easily whilst quoting as you know full well. I could write a complete thesis on how good for humanity the Nazi party was. And all done with quotes too.
2) Yes. They do. As a member of a collective body you are included in the views of the overall group as identified by whatever means the body chooses. The Govt represent me. The fact I can't abide the buggers is irrelevant. My choice was over ridden by the choice of the majority so they do speak in my name until such time as either they are chucked out or enough other folk adopt the same views as me and force a change upon them. That's how almost all collective groups work. You can always stand for election you know.

BobG

[PDX_Rover]

Come on folks... I don't think anybody is against a takeover IF it is in the best longer term interests of the club. IF being the key word.

John Ryan is indeed the self proclaimed messiah. He worked his way into a position whereby he could put money into the club and you cannot doubt that he was instrumental in us still having a club to support. But... He has acted in pure self interest over the past year. He acted to destabilise the club with his SC antics and went way down as a man in my eyes. He downright lied about a number of things, but it seems that's ok for some folks.

People have very short memories. What about the supporters who bought shares in the club only to have them basically stolen when Patienceform took over? One man benefitted from that.

I respect JR for what he achieved but his behaviour and pettiness this past year leaves a sour taste... The door has been open to him all the time yet apparently he wants to oust the very same people who were also instrumental in taking us to the next level as a club. It's all one big cock stroking ego trip.

[Sad-Rovers]

You can always stand for election you know.

I assume I can rely on you vote?

I think you're confusing representing someone and representing someones VIEWS.

To use your analogy the government do represent me (as they do ALL citizens) but my political views are best represented elsewhere.

Your NAZI sympathies are noted, however.

[BobG]

The question was to distinguish between representative and representing. I simply pointed out the fallacies in your argument that sought to defend yourself by claiming quotations cannot be misrepresentative. Now you bring up an entirely irrelevant and pointless claim that your own personal views are somehow important to this conversation. They're not. neither are mine. The question, again, is to distinguish between representative and representing. QED.

Your final point doubly confirms your inability to learn anything from previous experience. everyone on this forum, except you clearly, knows the substance of my political views. You though clearly neither read nor see. Instead you decide them for me. And if you now claim that your accusation of me of being a Nazi is simply a jest I remind you of last night: when you can come up with a constructive and argued position I will respect it and I will respect you. Whilst you can do nothing except chuck abuse around I will criticise you and abuse you. You started this. I was perfectly polite. You were not. I despise people who behave like you have done. And I won't hide it going forwards until the day you learn to argue constructively rather than destructively.. When that day dawns, I will be a good friend to you.

BobG

[BigColSutherland]

...When that day dawns, I will be a good friend to you.

BobG

Wow. What an incentive. How could one resist.

[Sad-Rovers]

Like your constructive and argued position that John Ryan is taking financial advantage of LT?

You've been outed as a bitter individual Bob, who is prepared to sling muck to justify your position.

But I do think JR spending vast amounts of a kids money in support of JR's dream is shameful.

You're obviously privy to the finer details of this deal, having formulated that view. Why not put us out of our collective misery and let us all know?

[Wellred]

Sad

1) You can misrepresent very easily whilst quoting as you know full well. I could write a complete thesis on how good for humanity the Nazi party was. And all done with quotes too.
2) Yes. They do. As a member of a collective body you are included in the views of the overall group as identified by whatever means the body chooses. The Govt represent me. The fact I can't abide the buggers is irrelevant. My choice was over ridden by the choice of the majority so they do speak in my name until such time as either they are chucked out or enough other folk adopt the same views as me and force a change upon them. That's how almost all collective groups work. You can always stand for election you know.

BobG

One small point Bob (and I can't abide them either) but the majority did not vote for this government.

[The Red Baron]

This is another situation that slows down player recruitment,if it keeps going on we are going to plummet through the leagues.
It didn't take long for Luton etc to drop through the league's,there needs to be a time limit on this or a straight no thanks,we have a hard season coming up.
I'm not decided either way till i know more,but i'm quite happy with the present owners if nothing happens.

I'm just hoping it all gets sorted out within a couple of weeks- one way or another. Otherwise we'll be in the same situation as we have been for the last two seasons- pre-season wasted, players arriving at the last minute and possibly starting the season with a wafer-thin squad.

We got away with it two years ago and last season we were fortunate that there was the best part of a fortnight between the first two League games. Even so, I think our lack of preparedness showed in the Blackpool game.

[IDM]

A good article?  OK it is this guy's opinion and I respect what he says and that many may agree with him.

But, I question his credentials a little when he writes:

"it took until April for Rovers to win a game, our 24th of the season"

That game was in December.  How can a proper writer and a football fan, get that so obviously wrong?  A typo - April for December???

Now, for the record, I am not in any sort of "bubble".  Yes, I would welcome investment in DRFC, from LT, JR or anyone with a genuine interest in DRFC and clear intentions and openness of who they actually are.  We didn't get that with SC so it is equally OK to be cautious of the LT/JR business until we know more.  My feelings on JR are that, regardless of what happened last season, he would be welcome back in the right circumstances.

[Alickismyhero]

Mr Ryan, why can't you just leave in style? Its over! Your TO failed miserably the last time even with all those mysterious leaks to the press against Terry and Dick.

Why you think this TO will work I just don't know. I am expecting more planned articles in your press campaign designed to split and turn the supporters against the board.

If Terry and Dick say "Yes" then that is OK by me but if they say "NO" then that is also OK by me its as simple as that. I think I know which way it will go.

 I see the board as a very safe pair of hands that sees themselves as temporary custodians of the club working to give Donny a successful, stable and financially secure club for the future.

Thats what I want to see whichever way it goes.

Mr Ryan come and join us in the South Stand where you will always be respected for the past but I am sorry to say I can see no future on the board.

[The Red Baron]

You can always stand for election you know.

I assume I can rely on you vote?

I think you're confusing representing someone and representing someones VIEWS.

To use your analogy the government do represent me (as they do ALL citizens) but my political views are best represented elsewhere.

Your NAZI sympathies are noted, however.

I invoke Godwin's Law. 

[Tokyos Boot]

The government best represent all those who turn out to vote - a privilege bestowed upon all British citizens to have their opinion.

That opinion is theirs, privately exchanged through a vote, in a booth, away from anyone elses knowledge or influence.

When you have a public political opinion about the party that was elected to represent you, you put yourself forward to have people disagree with you, and to have that debate amongst each other about rights and wrongs.

However - that government, upon disagreement and criticism dont retain the right to stifle your voice and opinion, to legislate who has the right to a voice or  - regardless of how 'immature' or disagreeable that opinion is.

Id argue, in that manner, the VSC is nothing like the government - combine that with an election system that isn't diplomatic nor transparent and its not a very good analogy really.

[Filo]

The government best represent all those who turn out to vote - a privilege bestowed upon all British citizens to have their opinion.
That opinion is theirs, privately exchanged through a vote, in a booth, away from anyone elses knowledge or influence.

When you have a public political opinion about the party that was elected to represent you, you put yourself forward to have people disagree with you, and to have that debate amongst each other about rights and wrongs.

However - that government, upon disagreement and criticism dont retain the right to stifle your voice and opinion, to legislate who has the right to a voice or  - regardless of how 'immature' or disagreeable that opinion is.

Id argue, in that manner, the VSC is nothing like the government - combine that with an election system that isn't diplomatic nor transparent and its not a very good analogy really.

Are you sure all British citizens are afforded that privilage?

[Sad-Rovers]

The ones in prison can't.


For now.

[Tokyos Boot]

You can be a pedant all you like (and you do like), but the point im making is right.

This forum, and politics do run in some interesting trends though. Much like the recent voting in of UKIP what we have in the rovers fanbase, akin to society, is a movement of disassociated people who dont feel the current board best represent their needs and opinions. These peoples have been regarded as lesser and ignored by the board, there needs not considered and as such have been completely underestimated in their numbers.

What we have in our fanbase is a large number of people who, i think, disagree with a lot of the motives, opinions and actions of the vsc and have no real alternative to vent to or ways to implement change.

If the government had listened to the needs of these many and just made waves to serve them instead of burying their heads in the sand and believing they were serving the masses we wouldnt have a UKIP situation.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Sad

1) You can misrepresent very easily whilst quoting as you know full well. I could write a complete thesis on how good for humanity the Nazi party was. And all done with quotes too.
2) Yes. They do. As a member of a collective body you are included in the views of the overall group as identified by whatever means the body chooses. The Govt represent me. The fact I can't abide the buggers is irrelevant. My choice was over ridden by the choice of the majority so they do speak in my name until such time as either they are chucked out or enough other folk adopt the same views as me and force a change upon them. That's how almost all collective groups work. You can always stand for election you know.

BobG

One small point Bob (and I can't abide them either) but the majority did not vote for this government.

59.1% voted either Tory or LibDem. Presumably they were happy to see their party in power.

[Filo]

You can be a pedant all you like (and you do like), but the point im making is right.

This forum, and politics do run in some interesting trends though. Much like the recent voting in of UKIP what we have in the rovers fanbase, akin to society, is a movement of disassociated people who dont feel the current board best represent their needs and opinions. These peoples have been regarded as lesser and ignored by the board, there needs not considered and as such have been completely underestimated in their numbers.

What we have in our fanbase is a large number of people who, i think, disagree with a lot of the motives, opinions and actions of the vsc and have no real alternative to vent to or ways to implement change.

If the government had listened to the needs of these many and just made waves to serve them instead of burying their heads in the sand and believing they were serving the masses we wouldnt have a UKIP situation.

You sound a bit of a drama queen, if I'm honest (and I do like to be honest)

[Sad-Rovers]

The classic response of someone not prepared to argue their position. Disappointing, Filo.

[Filo]

The classic response of someone not prepared to argue their position. Disappointing, Filo.

Come on Sad, you know from a previous post of mine the other day, It was in the thread where we both agreed that we should n't fight millionaires battles, that I stated I have n't got a position at the moment due to the lack of information available to me, I did however urge caution until we know the details, so don't be too disappointed mate, I'd hate to spoil your Sunday.

[Sad-Rovers]

Believe me Filo, no one on this forum could put me in a worse mood than my current bout of sciatica has me in.

I'm currently on industrial grade pain relief and I'm cooped up in the house with nothing but the internet for company...

[BillyStubbsTears]

You have my sympathy Sad. Been there and it is hell.

I was stuck in bed for 6 weeks recently with a different illness. With hindsight, I wish I'd not spent so much of that time on here, having pointless arguments to while away the time. Like whether Andy Carroll should have been sent off for that elbow on Chico Flores. I only got half way through my complete collection of John Le Carre novels. I'd have spent the time far more productively if I'd put the phone down and read the other half.

Good luck with your back.

[Filo]

Believe me Filo, no one on this forum could put me in a worse mood than my current bout of sciatica has me in.

I'm currently on industrial grade pain relief and I'm cooped up in the house with nothing but the internet for company...

Try Badoo, if you want some Company, I've heard it's the place to be, highly recommended by a young chap on facebook






Good luck with the back pain, been there and done it, not nice

[IDM]

What we have in our fanbase is a large number of people who, i think, disagree with a lot of the motives, opinions and actions of the vsc and have no real alternative to vent to or ways to implement change.

Really?  If you disagree so strongly with the VSC, you can join, then you can stand to be part of the organisation/board whatever it is called.  According to the screen I see here, you aren't even a member?

And, having read through so much drivel on here over recent years it is clear to me that much of the objections are not to folks having different opinions, more like how those opinions are presented.  Sometimes the mods have responded in kind, but I can imagine that is out of frustration.

Too much silly personal sniping on here...

[BigColSutherland]

...having pointless arguments to while away the time. Like whether Andy Carroll should have been sent off for that elbow on Chico Flores...

He shouldn't have been.

[BillyStubbsTears]

...having pointless arguments to while away the time. Like whether Andy Carroll should have been sent off for that elbow on Chico Flores...

Of course he should, you daft t**t.

He shouldn't have been.

[Wellred]

Sad

1) You can misrepresent very easily whilst quoting as you know full well. I could write a complete thesis on how good for humanity the Nazi party was. And all done with quotes too.
2) Yes. They do. As a member of a collective body you are included in the views of the overall group as identified by whatever means the body chooses. The Govt represent me. The fact I can't abide the buggers is irrelevant. My choice was over ridden by the choice of the majority so they do speak in my name until such time as either they are chucked out or enough other folk adopt the same views as me and force a change upon them. That's how almost all collective groups work. You can always stand for election you know.

BobG

One small point Bob (and I can't abide them either) but the majority did not vote for this government.

59.1% voted either Tory or LibDem. Presumably they were happy to see their party in power.

Ridiculous post.
59% didn't vote for a coalition.