2nd to 6th in 10 months!

[Filo]

It`s all over for the Lib Dems after that result yesterday, you`ve sold your party down the river Nick, the only way to save an ounce of respect for your party now is to pull out of the coaltion and for you to resign as leader, the party`s over Nick!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/byelection/8361265/Barnsley-Central-by-election-Nick-Clegg-laments-bad-result-for-Lib-Dems.html

[The Red Baron]

I can't see them pulling out of the Coalition while they're getting results like these. That would mean a General Election and annihilation for the Lib Dems. They've made their bed and have to lie in it- and hope for a better set of circumstances come 2015.

Good to see UKIP finishing second. Perhaps Barnsley folk have more political nous than I'd have given them credit for!

[Filo]

I can't see them pulling out of the Coalition while they're getting results like these. That would mean a General Election and annihilation for the Lib Dems. They've made their bed and have to lie in it- and hope for a better set of circumstances come 2015.

Good to see UKIP finishing second. Perhaps Barnsley folk have more political nous than I'd have given them credit for!

I see your point about them pulling out now, but for me, it`s the only way they`ll claw back even an ounce of credibility, carry on as they are and they will be wiped out by the next election anyway. Clegg has put the Lib Dems back 50 years all for his own power quest, never again in our lifetime will the Lib Dems be allowed anywhere near Downing Street, this was their chance, and they blew it big style!

[jonrover]

It`s all over for the Lib Dems after that result yesterday, you`ve sold your party down the river Nick, the only way to save an ounce of respect for your party now is to pull out of the coaltion and for you to resign as leader, the party`s over Nick!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/byelection/8361265/Barnsley-Central-by-election-Nick-Clegg-laments-bad-result-for-Lib-Dems.html

I agree.

The Lib-Dems are at possibly the most critical stage of their history. I know its only one by-election and to use this as a basis for general consensus for the level of support for the Lib-dems would be hard to justify, but as you say, from second to sixth in ten months must have even the staunchest Lib-Dem supporters worried about their future as a serious political party.

What happens next is going to be very interesting, especially since the Lib-Dem conference starts a week today in Sheffield (which is at a cost of £2 million to the tax payer for the extra policing alone!). If any of the grass root supporters and back bench MP's had any balls they would be demanding the Lib-Dems resign from the coalition before the worst of these idealogical cuts begin to bite, so they at least regain a little bit of respect from the people who voted for them. I think they have little choice if they are to come out of this saga with any respect or long term future as a credible political party.

[jucyberry]

They will never resign.. Power by proxy is still a power of sorts.. Clegg has already sold his soul to the devil,  not let him borrow it..

He might not quite be in the big chair so to speak, but he is near enough to get off on where he is...

[BillyStubbsTears]

I can't see them pulling out of the Coalition while they're getting results like these. That would mean a General Election and annihilation for the Lib Dems. They've made their bed and have to lie in it- and hope for a better set of circumstances come 2015.

Good to see UKIP finishing second. Perhaps Barnsley folk have more political nous than I'd have given them credit for!

Aye well. Back in the day, folk used to have a pointless protest vote for the Lib Dems. Then one day they woke up and realised that they'd actually put them in Govt and they were far more rabidly Right-Wing than anyone ever thought.

Presumably, when push comes to shove, no-one would be stupid enough to follow the same path with UKIP. God f**king help us if that goggle-eyed gobshite-on-speed Farrage ever gets remotely close to the levers of power. He makes Gadaffi look as sober and sensible as Geoffrey Howe.



As for the Lib Dems, I've said on here before that this is their critical moment. The Tories are also getting crucified in by-elections and opinion polls. Both coalition parties have a lot to lose by the coalition crumbling. So now is the time for the Lib-Dems to play hard-ball and face the Tories down. The Tories cannot afford a General Election any more than the Lib Dems can. So it's a partnership of equal vulnerabilities.

If Clegg wants to (big \"IF\" I'll grant you), he has the opportunity now to take on the Tories and force then more leftwards.

If he doesn't do that, then half of the Lib Dems' vote from the last election is lost for the next two decades. And all they can then do is tack even further to the right and try to eat into the Tories' centr-ist votes.

Either way, he's got himself in a right f**ker of a pickle.

[Ian H]

Either way, he's got himself in a right f**ker of a pickle.

 

As was predicted back last May: it's a good General Election to lose. No money, no chance of any sweeteners, a tough few years ahead - Clegg (and his advisors) had options to join forces with either team - so they opted for the Blues. The Barnsley Reds were never going to be happy with that - we all know that an amoeba in a red rosette would have won this by-election anyway, especially with a turnout of 36.5% of the voting public.

More than 2500 Labour voters couldn't be arsed to make their mark, the tories lost over 4000 & the Lib/Dems over 5000 ..... Nearly 13000 fewer people bothered ... but the UKIP vote was up by 1200 ... does that count as a protest vote?

[Dagenham Rover]

Good to see UKIP finishing second. Perhaps Barnsley folk have more political nous than I'd have given them credit for!

I think you 'll find the good folk of Dingleland thought UKIP was something to do with sleeping

[RedJ]

Good to see UKIP finishing second. Perhaps Barnsley folk have more political nous than I'd have given them credit for!

I think you 'll find the good folk of Dingleland thought UKIP was something to do with sleeping

[BillyStubbsTears]

Either way, he's got himself in a right f**ker of a pickle.

 

As was predicted back last May: it's a good General Election to lose. No money, no chance of any sweeteners, a tough few years ahead - Clegg (and his advisors) had options to join forces with either team - so they opted for the Blues. The Barnsley Reds were never going to be happy with that - we all know that an amoeba in a red rosette would have won this by-election anyway, especially with a turnout of 36.5% of the voting public.

More than 2500 Labour voters couldn't be arsed to make their mark, the tories lost over 4000 & the Lib/Dems over 5000 ..... Nearly 13000 fewer people bothered ... but the UKIP vote was up by 1200 ... does that count as a protest vote?

Of coursde you shouldn;t read too much into single by-elections. But this one pretty much nbang on copies what all the national opinion polls are saying.

Labour has increased its SHARE of the vote bay about 1/3rd compared to the General Election (just like the polls are saying).

The Lib Dems have totally collapsed, with most of their previous supporters from the GE now returning to labour (just like the polls are saying).

The Tories have lost support to UKIP - just like the polls are saying - probably the rabid right of the Tory party who assumed that, having waited patiently for 13 years for the Tories to come back, we'd be out of Europe and chucking the coons out as soon as there was a blue flag above Downing Street. The hang em and flog em brigade don;t like Nice Boy Dave's cuddly image, so they are defecting to UKIP.

But don't read too much into UKIP's share of the vote. That is as high as it will get. It's a protest, amplified by a very small turnout.

[The Red Baron]

Good to see UKIP finishing second. Perhaps Barnsley folk have more political nous than I'd have given them credit for!

I think you 'll find the good folk of Dingleland thought UKIP was something to do with sleeping

I have to say, that is a top response!

[The Red Baron]

The Tories have lost support to UKIP - just like the polls are saying - probably the rabid right of the Tory party who assumed that, having waited patiently for 13 years for the Tories to come back, we'd be out of Europe and chucking the coons out as soon as there was a blue flag above Downing Street. The hang em and flog em brigade don;t like Nice Boy Dave's cuddly image, so they are defecting to UKIP.

But don't read too much into UKIP's share of the vote. That is as high as it will get. It's a protest, amplified by a very small turnout.

Could also be people who are sick of all the main political parties and how they've been let down by them over issues like immigration- which we cannot control while we remain in the EU in its present form.

I'd much rather see those people vote UKIP than vote for the headbangers in the BNP.

[RedJ]

I'd rather see a vote wasted on UKIP than given to the British Nazi Party. They're slightly less.. well I'd rather have a UKIP MP (thankfully still quite a way away) than a BNP MP (which I hope never to see).

[hoolahoop]

Either way, he's got himself in a right f**ker of a pickle.

 

As was predicted back last May: it's a good General Election to lose. No money, no chance of any sweeteners, a tough few years ahead - Clegg (and his advisors) had options to join forces with either team - so they opted for the Blues. The Barnsley Reds were never going to be happy with that - we all know that an amoeba in a red rosette would have won this by-election anyway, especially with a turnout of 36.5% of the voting public.

More than 2500 Labour voters couldn't be arsed to make their mark, the tories lost over 4000 & the Lib/Dems over 5000 ..... Nearly 13000 fewer people bothered ... but the UKIP vote was up by 1200 ... does that count as a protest vote?

I agree with your post in it'e entirety, this bye election means sweet fa especially coming from the Socialist Republic of Dingleland.
Filo, JB, BST et al you team of raving lefties........you are reading far far too much into this. The only point , and this was raised by BST, is that this result gives the Lib/Dems even more influence in the Coalition if they can use it properly.
This vote was just to put the boot into the parties running the country and in Barnsley that was always going to happen. This Coalition, sorry to disappoint some of you, will last and bring us through the mess caused by the shite running of this country by the party you all so fondly admire........Jeez it's pathetic but funny reading you all clutching at straws!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Either way, he's got himself in a right f**ker of a pickle.

 

As was predicted back last May: it's a good General Election to lose. No money, no chance of any sweeteners, a tough few years ahead - Clegg (and his advisors) had options to join forces with either team - so they opted for the Blues. The Barnsley Reds were never going to be happy with that - we all know that an amoeba in a red rosette would have won this by-election anyway, especially with a turnout of 36.5% of the voting public.

More than 2500 Labour voters couldn't be arsed to make their mark, the tories lost over 4000 & the Lib/Dems over 5000 ..... Nearly 13000 fewer people bothered ... but the UKIP vote was up by 1200 ... does that count as a protest vote?

I agree with your post in it'e entirety, this bye election means sweet fa especially coming from the Socialist Republic of Dingleland.
Filo, JB, BST et al you team of raving lefties........you are reading far far too much into this. The only point , and this was raised by BST, is that this result gives the Lib/Dems even more influence in the Coalition if they can use it properly.
This vote was just to put the boot into the parties running the country and in Barnsley that was always going to happen. This Coalition, sorry to disappoint some of you, will last and bring us through the mess caused by the shite running of this country by the party you all so fondly admire........Jeez it's pathetic but funny reading you all clutching at straws!!

Quick lads. I thought the Lib Dems were extinct, but we've found one.

Now, somebody get Shirley Williams lubed up and get Hoola to mate with her sharpish.

[hoolahoop]

Good response Billy but too late I've already had her.

[jucyberry]

funnily enough I have huge respect for my MP. He is something rare in his field, a man of principles. He works tirelessly for his constituency and is one of the few who can hold his head up and say I didn't fiddle my expenses....

He is held in high regard and with a genuine fondness round here, and IF there were more like him in the Tory party then perhaps this time he might have gotten my vote, I just couldn't bring myself to put a cross for the rest of them you see, not this time.

Shame he has  chinless numpty and wonder boy for bosses.

[hoolahoop]

funnily enough I have huge respect for my MP. He is something rare in his field, a man of principles. He works tirelessly for his constituency and is one of the few who can hold his head up and say I didn't fiddle my expenses....

He is held in high regard and with a genuine fondness round here, and IF there were more like him in the Tory party then perhaps this time he might have gotten my vote, I just couldn't bring myself to put a cross for the rest of them you see, not this time.

Shame he has  chinless numpty and wonder boy for bosses.

JB are you comparing these 2 above with the likes of Gordon Brown and the Laughing Gnome now running the Labour Party.........now that is funny.
RTID.

[Viking Don]

I knew there was an underlying reason why we'd never get on Hoola. Now I find you're a tory t**t I take all my apologies back. Cancel the candle-lit meal and soft music.

[hoolahoop]

I knew there was an underlying reason why we'd never get on Hoola. Now I find you're a tory t**t I take all my apologies back. Cancel the candle-lit meal and soft music.

Got me wrong there VD, I was a leftie until I found out that absolute power corrupts absolutely as it did with the Labour Party that I fondly remember from my youth.
Things changed when I found out that they too were also prepared to 'ditch' almost all their founding principles. Tony Blair and his minions saw to that, all we seem to have now is less NOT more freedoms in every walk of life and the march towards Iraq, a virtual police state and disgracefully unnecessary PC legislation as well as corruption of the highest order.
However the table is booked , the candles are lit and you would probably find we have alot more in common than you might think.

I just try to give some balance on this otherwise'leftist' forum to hopefully allow younger members to at least think 'outside of the box' and for themselves. Just perhaps to see that there are many sides to every argument .....is that wrong ? x

We both want to see the Rovers ''hammer'' the Weeds today, surely that is a starting point to our relationship. Hold on please don't ''Dear John'' me quite so hastily. :cry: :cry: :cry:

RTID:scarf:

[Filo]

I knew there was an underlying reason why we'd never get on Hoola. Now I find you're a tory t**t I take all my apologies back. Cancel the candle-lit meal and soft music.

Got me wrong there VD, I was a leftie until I found out that absolute power corrupts absolutely as it did with the Labour Party that I fondly remember from my youth.
Things changed when I found out that they too were also prepared to 'ditch' almost all their founding principles. Tony Blair and his minions saw to that, all we seem to have now is less NOT more freedoms in every walk of life and the march towards Iraq, a virtual police state and disgracefully unnecessary PC legislation as well as corruption of the highest order.
However the table is booked , the candles are lit and you would probably find we have alot more in common than you might think.

I just try to give some balance on this otherwise'leftist' forum to hopefully allow younger members to at least think 'outside of the box' and for themselves. Just perhaps to see that there are many sides to every argument .....is that wrong ? x

We both want to see the Rovers ''hammer'' the Weeds today, surely that is a starting point to our relationship. Hold on please don't ''Dear John'' me quite so hastily. :cry: :cry: :cry:

RTID:scarf:

A virtual Police state? Thatcher introduced that in Yorkshire 27 Years ago!

[The Red Baron]

Either way, he's got himself in a right f**ker of a pickle.

 

As was predicted back last May: it's a good General Election to lose. No money, no chance of any sweeteners, a tough few years ahead - Clegg (and his advisors) had options to join forces with either team - so they opted for the Blues. The Barnsley Reds were never going to be happy with that - we all know that an amoeba in a red rosette would have won this by-election anyway, especially with a turnout of 36.5% of the voting public.

More than 2500 Labour voters couldn't be arsed to make their mark, the tories lost over 4000 & the Lib/Dems over 5000 ..... Nearly 13000 fewer people bothered ... but the UKIP vote was up by 1200 ... does that count as a protest vote?

I agree with your post in it'e entirety, this bye election means sweet fa especially coming from the Socialist Republic of Dingleland.
Filo, JB, BST et al you team of raving lefties........you are reading far far too much into this. The only point , and this was raised by BST, is that this result gives the Lib/Dems even more influence in the Coalition if they can use it properly.
This vote was just to put the boot into the parties running the country and in Barnsley that was always going to happen. This Coalition, sorry to disappoint some of you, will last and bring us through the mess caused by the shite running of this country by the party you all so fondly admire........Jeez it's pathetic but funny reading you all clutching at straws!!

Too right Hoola. Isn't it funny how anyone who questions the Labour Party and all its works is branded as a rabid Tory? Personally I think the 13 years they were in power were an unmitigated disaster for this country. Not just for what they did, but what they didn't do as well (welfare reform for starters).

And before you start, I doubt the current Tory party would have done a lot better.

The whole system is royally f**ked and needs radical change. Proper PR, not this joke called the Alternative Vote, might be a step. So might a fully elected second chamber (oops, another thing Labour avoided doing!)

If you want an illustration of what's wrong with the Alternative Vote, look no further then the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition, the Rt. Hon. Edward Miliband MP. The thought of that joker running the country, along with that idiot Balls, is enough to make me consider emigration. (And again, I'm no fan of David Cameronw, who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, has little idea about how ordinary people live and hasn't ever done a proper job.)

[Glyn_Wigley]

The LibDems aren't going to do anything to potentially rock the boat until after the AV Referendum.

If they get a 'yes' vote, they know they will have more chance of winning marginal seats despite their low poll ratings and can threaten the Tories with a General Election which under AV would dump the Tories out of power while probably leave the LDs with about the same number of seats.

If they get a 'No' vote, they know they'll have to either show that they're actually having an effect on policy, or resign from the coalition on a point of principle (anything will do) to try and regain some credibility and poll ratings - because under FPTP they're going to get decimated. The Tories can't threaten them with calling an early General Election because they'll lose power and they know it.

[Viking Don]

OK Hoola, we're back on. We can definitely agree that they're pretty much all t**ts. Not sure if power corrupts, I suspect they were already like that in the first place to be even seeking power.

[Ian H]

Ah .... they're pretty much all t**ts!  

I can be a bit of a t**t - but I'm not a politician.

Can't all fiddling, lying, cheating politicians be \"bas**rds\"?  .... I'm happy to be a pedantic t**t, but I don't want grouping in with the elected bas**rds, whether by alternative means, first past the post or PR!

So 2nd to 6th in 10 months can be put down to the usual protest against the governing parties and the low turnout and the fact that Barnsley is rock solid labour - weird that these people are the same that voted \"new labour\" and maybe their ancestors voted \"proper labour\" .... do they all represent the same thing?

[jucyberry]

At the end of the day, whilst those in power are rich beyond the dreams of mere mortals there will never be the one thing that would help them understand the ordinary man.. Empathy.

To get people like Clegg and Cameron saying we are all in it together is a piss take of the highest order. I don't know what the answer is, I wouldn't say I hang my colours to any particular mast..

I just know I don't trust this lot...I didn't trust Blair either.

And I don't care, I LIKED Gordon Brown.!

[RedJ]

And I don't care, I LIKED Gordon Brown.!

Some friends' kids all said he was like the uncle who gave them a little extra money until they got their next pocket money instalment. I've also met him in person, and he's such a warm, genuine man, and he works hard for his constituency. Just ask anyone who lives in it.

I'm a Labour member, yes. I hated Blair, he was everything that's wrong with politics. I just pray that sometime within the next few decades the party can actually return to what it was meant to do - fight for the common man.
 

[Viking Don]

Ah .... they're pretty much all t**ts!  

I can be a bit of a t**t - but I'm not a politician.

Can't all fiddling, lying, cheating politicians be \"bas**rds\"?  .... I'm happy to be a pedantic t**t, but I don't want grouping in with the elected bas**rds, whether by alternative means, first past the post or PR!

So 2nd to 6th in 10 months can be put down to the usual protest against the governing parties and the low turnout and the fact that Barnsley is rock solid labour - weird that these people are the same that voted \"new labour\" and maybe their ancestors voted \"proper labour\" .... do they all represent the same thing?

OK Ian, they're bas**rds. t**t is actually too good for them, at least a t**t is useful!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ah .... they're pretty much all t**ts!  

I can be a bit of a t**t - but I'm not a politician.

Can't all fiddling, lying, cheating politicians be \"bas**rds\"?  .... I'm happy to be a pedantic t**t, but I don't want grouping in with the elected bas**rds, whether by alternative means, first past the post or PR!

So 2nd to 6th in 10 months can be put down to the usual protest against the governing parties and the low turnout and the fact that Barnsley is rock solid labour - weird that these people are the same that voted \"new labour\" and maybe their ancestors voted \"proper labour\" .... do they all represent the same thing?

Aye, we're all t**ts.

You're a slightly incorrect t**t though Ian. What happened to the Lib Dems in Barnsley is categorically NOT down to \"the usual protest\" against parties in Govt.

1) If it WAS, how come the Tories' share of the vote didn't collapse by a similar amount.
2) The Lib Dems' collapse has been writ large in every single opinion poll in the last 6 months. The Barnsley result simply reflected and confirmed that.

What we are witnessing is utterly unprecedented in modern British politics. There has never been a case of a party forming a Govt and losing so much support so quickly. At the last Election, there wer upwards of 3.5-4 million or so people who voted for the Lib Dems without really having any idea what they stood for. They thought the Lib Dems were really like Labour without the nastiness, or they though Clegg was a good man, on their side.

What they DIDN'T think was that their votes would put the Tories in power with full LD support for the most radically right-wing economic policies in 80 years.

They've learned that lesson rapidly. In opinion poll after opinion poll, only 40% or so of the people who voted LD in 2010 say that they would do so today. Nearly as many now say they will vote Labour. Those are the people who WERE Labour supporters in the previous decade, who thought that labour needed telling a lesson, but who didn't expect that to lead to Cameron and Gideon pulling the levers.

They will never make the same mistake in the rest of the lives.

The Lib Dems have built an existence on being the nice protest party. Their chickens have now come home to roost now that they've had to come off the fence. I genuinely can't see a way out for them from here:

1) They can't bring the coalition down. The Tories will accuse them of deserting their responsibility in the hour of need. Labour will accuse them of of having made the wrong judgement in the first place by getting into a coalition with the Tories. They will not have a credible answer to either accusation.

2) So they have to stick it out. But even if the coalition's economic policies DO work, they will hurt like hell and the pain will hit the poorest and weakest parts of the country. The left-leaning people who have deserted the Lib Dems will not forgive that. They have lost that 3 million or so votes now for a generation or more.

The one possible redemption might be if there was some huge, unforeseen crisis and a Lib Dem political genius saved us in our hour of need. But who could that be? They are political pygmies. Clegg has had rings run round him by the Tories and taken the rap for every unpopular policy. Cable has looked like a buffoon in falling into politcal traps and totally blowing the potential influence that he had. Laws should be facing 2 years in prison for theft. Alexander looks like a schoolkid on work experience. And the rest  - I can't even picture their faces.

There will be many, many more Barnsley's for the Lib Dems before the next Election. And then when that Election comes along, you'll not see 15 LD MPs elected, even WITH AV. They can then spend fifty years re-building their role as a protest party, and leave the rest of us to get on with voting for parties who more or less do what they say on the tin.

EDIT: Writing that was preferable to contemplating today's result...

[jucyberry]

I was one of those who wasted my vote never dreaming it would end up with the mish-mash we have today..

Our Labour candidate had made such a t**t of himself I couldn't bear t vote for him, and much as I admire Henry I didn't want, couldn't vote tory..So unfortunately I voted Libdem hoping that they could actually deliver.

And no, I will never make that mistake again.