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"The announcement affects clubs subject to the government’s all-seater policy. That includes clubs in the Premier League and Championship, or any club who have been in those divisions for three or more seasons since 1994-95, plus Wembley Stadium and the Principality Stadium."
But will we be able to afford it?
Whether we can or cannot do this yet I don't know. Whether we can offord this yet or not I don't know.But what I do know is having the south stand, a safe standing zone could completely transform the fan experience for the whole of the rovers support base. I would leave the bottom few rows as they are and then have safe standing. The atmosphere could be immense, the capacity could be increased, the attraction of standing and a better atmosphere would bring fans back, especially with a reduction in prices. I even think a campaign to raise funds through the fan base to fund the installation would be a huge success.
Quote from: johnny rovers on September 22, 2021, 04:12:11 pmWhether we can or cannot do this yet I don't know. Whether we can offord this yet or not I don't know.But what I do know is having the south stand, a safe standing zone could completely transform the fan experience for the whole of the rovers support base. I would leave the bottom few rows as they are and then have safe standing. The atmosphere could be immense, the capacity could be increased, the attraction of standing and a better atmosphere would bring fans back, especially with a reduction in prices. I even think a campaign to raise funds through the fan base to fund the installation would be a huge success.Might wrong but Im pretty certain it does not change the capacity. It’s one person allocated per standing space (effectively the seat)
As some of you may know I've played quite a significant part in the Safe Standing campaign and have done for the last 20 years or so. That's one reason why a lot of people defer to me when questions are asked about the current state of our campaign and where its up to. Mind you the campaign is about 32 years old, its just been done in various formats!But there are a lot of misconceptions in a number of the posts above, not surprising really since the interpretation of some of the legislation is deliberately misleading and was one of the key issues we had to tackle.Firstly, the requirements for all seater stadiums in England and Wales only applies to EPL and Championship clubs. Which essentially means that we could have ripped the seats out of the Keepmoat years ago without any issue. But that's just theoretical as we know full well that the local SAG wouldn't have allowed it, plus there's always been the threat that the element of funding that came from the Stadium Development fund could be recalled. That was never in the contract but we all knew it was a veiled threat to make sure all clubs complied.Secondly, you have to distinguish between what some of you are calling Safe Standing with just 'standing'. We deliberately moved away from the phrase 'Safe Standing' some years ago because the safety argument had been won a long time ago, we went with 'Stand Up For Choice', which was copied by the EFL at the same time.Because of UEFA and FIFA legislation then safe standing to EPL clubs is different to what we want or have. They have to have all seater stadiums to compete in Europe, that hasn't changed, therefore they need seats that can be locked in certain positions, that is, seats for European games and rails for EPL games.At the Keepmoat we've had an unreserved ticketing policy for quite a while, and an agreement that stewards wouldn't force people to sit within a certain area, an area that roughly holds about 250 people. I'm not sure there's a justification for ripping out the seats and installing rails ( you don't need the seating element at our level) because it wouldn't necessarily change anything.To increase capacity in that area the club would have to build an intermediate step on each row, and that theoretically gives an increase by a factor of 1.8. But why increase capacity when we can't fill the stadium already? I also don't see the argument that the atmosphere would be necessarily better, people are already stood so I fail to see what would change.The prime example here is any away game. The atmosphere is so much better because just about everybody stands and like minded people get together, it shouldn't be any different at home. You don't need specific standing areas to achieve that.
At the Keepmoat we've had an unreserved ticketing policy for quite a while, and an agreement that stewards wouldn't force people to sit within a certain area, an area that roughly holds about 250 people. I'm not sure there's a justification for ripping out the seats and installing rails ( you don't need the seating element at our level) because it wouldn't necessarily change anything.To increase capacity in that area the club would have to build an intermediate step on each row, and that theoretically gives an increase by a factor of 1.8. But why increase capacity when we can't fill the stadium already? I also don't see the argument that the atmosphere would be necessarily better, people are already stood so I fail to see what would change.The prime example here is any away game. The atmosphere is so much better because just about everybody stands and like minded people get together, it shouldn't be any different at home. You don't need specific standing areas to achieve that.
Quote from: silent majority on September 23, 2021, 12:04:11 pmAt the Keepmoat we've had an unreserved ticketing policy for quite a while, and an agreement that stewards wouldn't force people to sit within a certain area, an area that roughly holds about 250 people. I'm not sure there's a justification for ripping out the seats and installing rails ( you don't need the seating element at our level) because it wouldn't necessarily change anything.To increase capacity in that area the club would have to build an intermediate step on each row, and that theoretically gives an increase by a factor of 1.8. But why increase capacity when we can't fill the stadium already? I also don't see the argument that the atmosphere would be necessarily better, people are already stood so I fail to see what would change.The prime example here is any away game. The atmosphere is so much better because just about everybody stands and like minded people get together, it shouldn't be any different at home. You don't need specific standing areas to achieve that.Yes, but why are you reducing it to atmosphere and capacity? We are talking here about the principle of being able to stand or not, are we not? If you think being lenient on a small section of seats has solved the issue I can tell you it has not. Taking the South Stand as the example, you have the back rows of mainly young lads most people (who want to stand) do not want to get in there with, and the rest of the area where it is the same battle / social pressures in any other areas of the ground. Someone gets in there early and plonks themself down, you're done. Its the same reoccurring story at away games.I find your apparent stance on this quite surprising I must admit, given, as you say, you are the go to guru on standing. You've campaigned for this for so long and now your opinion is - 'its not worth it', based on a few technical issues.
Quote from: silent majority on September 23, 2021, 12:04:11 pmAs some of you may know I've played quite a significant part in the Safe Standing campaign and have done for the last 20 years or so. That's one reason why a lot of people defer to me when questions are asked about the current state of our campaign and where its up to. Mind you the campaign is about 32 years old, its just been done in various formats!But there are a lot of misconceptions in a number of the posts above, not surprising really since the interpretation of some of the legislation is deliberately misleading and was one of the key issues we had to tackle.Firstly, the requirements for all seater stadiums in England and Wales only applies to EPL and Championship clubs. Which essentially means that we could have ripped the seats out of the Keepmoat years ago without any issue. But that's just theoretical as we know full well that the local SAG wouldn't have allowed it, plus there's always been the threat that the element of funding that came from the Stadium Development fund could be recalled. That was never in the contract but we all knew it was a veiled threat to make sure all clubs complied.Secondly, you have to distinguish between what some of you are calling Safe Standing with just 'standing'. We deliberately moved away from the phrase 'Safe Standing' some years ago because the safety argument had been won a long time ago, we went with 'Stand Up For Choice', which was copied by the EFL at the same time.Because of UEFA and FIFA legislation then safe standing to EPL clubs is different to what we want or have. They have to have all seater stadiums to compete in Europe, that hasn't changed, therefore they need seats that can be locked in certain positions, that is, seats for European games and rails for EPL games.At the Keepmoat we've had an unreserved ticketing policy for quite a while, and an agreement that stewards wouldn't force people to sit within a certain area, an area that roughly holds about 250 people. I'm not sure there's a justification for ripping out the seats and installing rails ( you don't need the seating element at our level) because it wouldn't necessarily change anything.To increase capacity in that area the club would have to build an intermediate step on each row, and that theoretically gives an increase by a factor of 1.8. But why increase capacity when we can't fill the stadium already? I also don't see the argument that the atmosphere would be necessarily better, people are already stood so I fail to see what would change.The prime example here is any away game. The atmosphere is so much better because just about everybody stands and like minded people get together, it shouldn't be any different at home. You don't need specific standing areas to achieve that.We will possibly have to agree to disagree on whether the atmosphere would be better or not, I'm firmly in the camp of it definitely would.SM, just a quick question for you, if seats had been bolted to the terracing in the popside do you think the atmosphere would have been the same or less so?? Others welcome to offer their opinions.
Would we benefit at the KMS from a section that is clearly marked as a standing area and communicating that to those in that area? Yes it is light touch at the moment but could we not go the next step and say look this is a/the standing area first and foremost and encourage it? That costs nothing and starts to solve the issue once and for all doesn't it? It could maybe just need a small amount of signage, or stickers on seats?
Those that want to stand in the ss do so anyway, without any need to shell out on rail seats
Quote from: normal rules on September 24, 2021, 01:47:32 pmThose that want to stand in the ss do so anyway, without any need to shell out on rail seats Not entirely true there are people that get there and sit down 6 rows from the back and that's why you see the aisles packed out week in week out.
I am old enough to remember standing at Belle Vue and old enough that now I prefer to sit down. My season ticket seat that I’ve held since the Keepmoat opened is at the back does that mean I have to give it up so others can stand?In the 70’s in a match against Hull ( I’m sure someone on here can give the exact date?) the police decided to move the crowd on the Pop stand. The result of this was terrifying!! I was lifted off my feet and carried up and down the terrace as were many other people. I would have fallen if the two Rovers fans near me hadn’t supported me. ‘We won’t let you fall luv’ and they didn’t. It’s a no from me on the so called Safe Standing. I’m also reluctant to go to away games because of the rude fans who insist on standing anywhere in the stands. The Arsenal game was a point in question where they even stood on the front row! I also would like to know why fans wishing to sit down are expected to sit in seats at the front with a poor view.
It is in fact you who is disregarding others opinions. You are saying no one has a right to stand because YOU prefer to sit. I don't have such arrogance, sorry. If people want to sit, they should be able to.
Quote from: Copps is Magic on September 24, 2021, 09:44:45 pmIt is in fact you who is disregarding others opinions. You are saying no one has a right to stand because YOU prefer to sit. I don't have such arrogance, sorry. If people want to sit, they should be able to.Sorry Copps but that is a very rude and disrespectful response to Lindy.In no way did I read Lindy’s post as self-serving arrogance.He/she expressed a personal opinion and everyone is entitled to that without being subjected to rudeness.Lindy might be a bruiser of a bloke who can stand up for himself but what if Lindy is an elderly female Rovers fan who has followed the club for decades and finds the prospect of unreserved standing a concern?Let’s be a bit more considerate?