Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Filo on February 25, 2017, 05:29:11 pm
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Aint no Jordan Houghton, turns back too many times for me
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Like replacing a rolls Royce with a Lada
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Middleton had very little to do with the outcome of the game; Sloppy in defense and sloppy in attack. Three glaring chances 1) May 2) Williams 3) Rowe.
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Williams misses chance shock :blush:
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Didn't think he was too bad. Definitely not our worst today. Played a couple of good balls.
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We've slipped into the same problems that contributed to our collapse last season. Too many square pegs in round holes, conceding early, then when we are ahead playing as if it's 3 or 4-0 open to the inevitable sucker punch.
Today's team - Mason and Blair not natural full backs, Alcock a full back playing centre back, Grant (left sided) on the right, Rowe on the left where he is less effective, and Copps (traditionally right sided) through the centre.
Need to improve because I'm beginning to fear that history will repeat itself and we will collapse like last season.
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I don't think Middleton played too badly, save for the opening 15 minutes, but overall his game just isn't suited to that position and I don't feel it's our best option.
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Midfield was awful today, Middleton stifles us & our normal passing game was virtually non-existent, weather conditions accepted. Mistakes for both of their goals & players below par meant we struggled to get control of the game, fair play to Accrington though, battled well for their point.
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Despite being far from our best I thought we did enough to win that game. Good chances missed but also two clear cut penalties denied by the ref who gave us nothing all game. I thought he was shocking.
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We've slipped into the same problems that contributed to our collapse last season. Too many square pegs in round holes, conceding early, then when we are ahead playing as if it's 3 or 4-0 open to the inevitable sucker punch.
Today's team - Mason and Blair not natural full backs, Alcock a full back playing centre back, Grant (left sided) on the right, Rowe on the left where he is lesse effective, and Copps (traditionally right sided) through the centre.
Need to improve because I'm beginning to fear that history will repeat itself and we will collapse like last season.
Your fears are totally unfounded. This team is nothing like the one that collapsed last season.
This is still just a blip. It's only 1 defeat in 5 games. Hardly disastrous is it.
We are getting no luck at the moment and the refs have been atrocious.
The foul on Rowe was a clear cut penalty. How many are we not going to get given.
Stop worrying we are going up and as Champions.
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The supposed 'foul' on Rowe was one of the most blatant dives I've ever seen. 1/10.
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We've slipped into the same problems that contributed to our collapse last season. Too many square pegs in round holes, conceding early, then when we are ahead playing as if it's 3 or 4-0 open to the inevitable sucker punch.
Today's team - Mason and Blair not natural full backs, Alcock a full back playing centre back, Grant (left sided) on the right, Rowe on the left where he is lesse effective, and Copps (traditionally right sided) through the centre.
Need to improve because I'm beginning to fear that history will repeat itself and we will collapse like last season.
Your fears are totally unfounded. This team is nothing like the one that collapsed last season.
This is still just a blip. It's only 1 defeat in 5 games. Hardly disastrous is it.
We are getting no luck at the moment and the refs have been atrocious.
The foul on Rowe was a clear cut penalty. How many are we not going to get given.
Stop worrying we are going up and as Champions.
fwiw I thought the Rowe incident was one thing the ref got right. Tried to buy the pen when he should've stayed on his feet and squared it. Was right behind it in the South Stand
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Five games without a win for the table topping team is more than a blip. Definitely a wobble.
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Five games without a win for the table topping team is more than a blip. Definitely a wobble.
Yes but, amazingly, we are getting away with it. Nobody is really closing the gap. Portsmouth are the only team on a small winning streak and they are still 10 points behind. It's still ours to lose which is a miracle considering the injuries we've had from start to nearly finish.
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If we continue this form we won't get promoted.
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It will change when we get Mandeville back. That lad makes a difference.
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Middleton played ok today. Agreed he is no Houghton but I actually think his range of passing is better than Houghton's. The first goal we conceded was a carbon copy of last weeks goal which even Houghton couldn't prevent. I suppose seeing as Williams didn't start Middleton becomes the scapegoat.
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None of the top sides are doing particularly well are they.
One less game to play and we are still ten points clear of fourth.
Lots of panicking n here right now.
Despite us not winning today I am still comfortable that we will get promotion.
Plymouth fans will be saying that they are glad Donny drew today.
As for Middleton, I also thought he did well enough today after a dodgy first ten or fifteen minutes.
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We've slipped into the same problems that contributed to our collapse last season. Too many square pegs in round holes, conceding early, then when we are ahead playing as if it's 3 or 4-0 open to the inevitable sucker punch.
Today's team - Mason and Blair not natural full backs, Alcock a full back playing centre back, Grant (left sided) on the right, Rowe on the left where he is lesse effective, and Copps (traditionally right sided) through the centre.
Need to improve because I'm beginning to fear that history will repeat itself and we will collapse like last season.
Your fears are totally unfounded. This team is nothing like the one that collapsed last season.
This is still just a blip. It's only 1 defeat in 5 games. Hardly disastrous is it.
We are getting no luck at the moment and the refs have been atrocious.
The foul on Rowe was a clear cut penalty. How many are we not going to get given.
Stop worrying we are going up and as Champions.
fwiw I thought the Rowe incident was one thing the ref got right. Tried to buy the pen when he should've stayed on his feet and squared it. Was right behind it in the South Stand
Well we all said def pen from where we were sat in South East almost in line with goal/ bye line.
Clipped from behind no question.
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Five games without a win for the table topping team is more than a blip. Definitely a wobble.
Glass half full / Glass half empty
Mine is definitely half full.
If we were playing rubbish and or not creating chances then I would be worried.
Neither of those are happening.
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Like replacing a rolls Royce with a Lada
That says all !!
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says f**k all about the glaring chances we missed.
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Agreed on that, we had enough chances to have won easily.
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Middleton maybe no Houghton but as he did ok today, I think there are other players that could justify a thread of their own for not performing as well as they can.
Mightily disappointed with Grant who had a poor game today aside his decent crosses. He seems to be going through the motions rather than busting a gut to make a name for himself.
Rowe. Yes you could argue he contributed today, but too many times for me he disappears and runs away from the ball and what was he doing going down like that when it was easier to stay on his feet and square the ball!
Overall, we're over complicating things at times instead of keeping it simple. The simplest basic thing off all is not hitting the target often enough.
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You can look all over the pitch today for reasons we did not win. But 2 things stand out for me
Unsettled back 4 (3) for last 5 games or so. Once Butler and Baudry are fit and playing for 90mins things will improve at the back
Confidence - we are looking nervous in front of goal (except Marquis). Copps / Rowe taking touch too many, or pulling shot. If Williams header goes in and we win -what a different team next week.
Manderville is not the answer - he was on a roll in a winning team, it would be different if he came back tomorrow.
Biggest mistake today (and I don't blame DF, it's not his fault we missed loads of chances) but taking Copps and May off when we still needed another goal. For me take Grant off and bring on McSheffrey. We were the threat so why change the shape?
Next win and we go on a run again.........
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Although I didn't think Coppinger should have come off the change made us better balanced. Rowe went further forward, Grant went left and Blair right. Grant is a much better player on his natural side, although I'm beginning to think he's Martin Woods reborn.
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Copps asked to be substituted. Agree with the rest.
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You can look all over the pitch today for reasons we did not win. But 2 things stand out for me
Unsettled back 4 (3) for last 5 games or so. Once Butler and Baudry are fit and playing for 90mins things will improve at the back
Confidence - we are looking nervous in front of goal (except Marquis). Copps / Rowe taking touch too many, or pulling shot. If Williams header goes in and we win -what a different team next week.
Manderville is not the answer - he was on a roll in a winning team, it would be different if he came back tomorrow.
Biggest mistake today (and I don't blame DF, it's not his fault we missed loads of chances) but taking Copps and May off when we still needed another goal. For me take Grant off and bring on McSheffrey. We were the threat so why change the shape?
Next win and we go on a run again.........
Copps asked to be taken off saw him gesturing to the bench
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Copps asked to come off and May looked a bit leggy after 70 minutes or so.
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Copps asked to be substituted. Agree with the rest.
Fair enough. He does have a slight injury so maybe he felt it.
Shame McSheffrey didn't get a run for the last few minutes I thought.
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I think we need to go back To basics. Back to a 4-4-2 diamond which worked well for us earlier in the season.
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I think we need to go back to the high tempo pressing game or at least matching the opposition's work rate. Today we looked leggy and tired. Certainly it's the first time Fergie has really lost it with the team for ignoring what he wanted.
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I think we need to go back to the high tempo pressing game or at least matching the opposition's work rate. Today we looked leggy and tired. Certainly it's the first time Fergie has really lost it with the team for ignoring what he wanted.
Agree regarding the opposition workrate, that's the 3rd home game in succession we haven't matched it, today Accrington won almost every second ball. We were never in control of the game, whereas most home games this season we have been. Although we have showed the bottle to hold on to our home record.
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Nothing to do with Middleton but Baudry has to start on Tuesday, he's our best defender and we look so much more stable at back when he plays.
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middleton wasn`t helped by Grant having a poor game, but if we dont put the chances away that May and Rowe missed we wont win games, the next two matches will show what we are made of.
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Well we all said def pen from where we were sat in South East almost in line with goal/ bye line.
Clipped from behind no question.
Then the ref had a very much better view of it than you did Campsall.
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Bit harsh on May, they were lining up on the line to cover the keeper
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Well we all said def pen from where we were sat in South East almost in line with goal/ bye line.
Clipped from behind no question.
Then the ref had a very much better view of it than you did Campsall.
How do you work than one out.
HE WAS CLIPPED FROM BEHIND NO QUESTION. Was just about to cross the ball and was fouled.
To dive WHICH HE DID NOT would have been madness as we would probably have scored.
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I have not seen anyone ask where the covering left back is for their first goal.Was this because he does not appear anywhere in the film footage?
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Sorry, I have watched the film again, and think I spotted him treading water at the start of the run on goal,about 40yds out of position,and a bloody great gap behind him on our left flank.
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I have not seen anyone ask where the covering left back is for their first goal.Was this because he does not appear anywhere in the film footage?
Whoa hold your horses, we were attacking with acres of space on the left for Mason to go into. The facts that Copps and Grant fannyed about and lost possession with everyone out of position and that Middleton was never going to catch him and that Butler was too late in commiting himself are the reasons they scored, but hey lets blame the new whipping boy instead.
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I have not seen anyone ask where the covering left back is for their first goal.Was this because he does not appear anywhere in the film footage?
Whoa hold your horses, we were attacking with acres of space on the left for Mason to go into. The facts that Copps and Grant fannyed about and lost possession with everyone out of position and that Middleton was never going to catch him and that Butler was too late in commiting himself are the reasons they scored, but hey lets blame the new whipping boy instead.
I agree with that, thats why we play with wing backs, Copps poor pass to Grant was the reason they broke, Middleton should have fouled him when he had chance
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If anyone should have taken him out it should have been Butler at least it could have been deemed as challenging for the ball no booking perhaps. If Middleton had took him out it would have been a definite booking, but 1 or the other should have sorted it other teams would have!
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No reason for Middleton not to believe Butler would hold him up and maybe get a chance to catch him up or get behind the ball, so not worthy of taking him down for an assured yellow.
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I have not seen anyone ask where the covering left back is for their first goal.Was this because he does not appear anywhere in the film footage?
Whoa hold your horses, we were attacking with acres of space on the left for Mason to go into. The facts that Copps and Grant fannyed about and lost possession with everyone out of position and that Middleton was never going to catch him and that Butler was too late in commiting himself are the reasons they scored, but hey lets blame the new whipping boy instead.
I agree with that, thats why we play with wing backs, Copps poor pass to Grant was the reason they broke, Middleton should have fouled him when he had chance
We didn't play wing backs on Sat, we played a flat back 4 Blair, Alcock, Butler, Mason
The full backs still go forward and attack with that formation.
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Miss kick in the area at Carlisle,miss kick and beaten to the ball v Luton,no cover and out of position at the weekend.
Not a whipping boy at all,unlike Middleton for some people,I genuinely want him to play well, but Mason has not done it for me lately,just saying what I have seen in the games.
For me he has been O.K.all season nothing more,but credit to him he is playing left sided when a right sided player,it does not help the balance of our team,and is the prime reason Roe is pushed wide left where he is not as effective.
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Someone should have been covering for Mason on Sat.
That is where we miss Houghton because he does that job so well.
Against Carlisle and Luton Mason was in a 3 at the back and is out of his depth in that position. He is really a right back (but has done well at left back) or a defensive midfielder.
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Paul,as you stated previously we started with a back four,Mason should have been the covering player,he was thirty yards too forward, after only seven minutes,watch Alcock play that position on the right he covers the central players when we push forward brilliantly,like chalk and cheese mate.
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Well we all said def pen from where we were sat in South East almost in line with goal/ bye line.
Clipped from behind no question.
Then the ref had a very much better view of it than you did Campsall.
How do you work than one out.
HE WAS CLIPPED FROM BEHIND NO QUESTION. Was just about to cross the ball and was fouled.
To dive WHICH HE DID NOT would have been madness as we would probably have scored.
You described where you were sat in your first post. Given your position, the ref was most certainly better placed than you to judge.
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Paul,as you stated previously we started with a back four,Mason should have been the covering player,he was thirty yards too forward, after only seven minutes,watch Alcock play that position on the right he covers the central players when we push forward brilliantly,like chalk and cheese mate.
Just out of interest how many times did Alcock get forward when switched to right back? He playec lije a 3rd centre half when switched Excellent defender but not a wing back, that is why he covers better than Mason or even Blair as they are expected to get forward at every opportunity
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Well we all said def pen from where we were sat in South East almost in line with goal/ bye line.
Clipped from behind no question.
Then the ref had a very much better view of it than you did Campsall.
How do you work than one out.
HE WAS CLIPPED FROM BEHIND NO QUESTION. Was just about to cross the ball and was fouled.
To dive WHICH HE DID NOT would have been madness as we would probably have scored.
You described where you were sat in your first post. Given your position, the ref was most certainly better placed than you to judge.
We can go on for ever on this one. If you think the ref got it right then that is your opinion.
All of us sat around the same area are 100% sure he was fowled end of.
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Raven,defend first attack when you can,and not at the expense of leaving gaps that can be exposed,move forward together in shape, and retreat together in shape.
Watch the Italians,and Germans,they are the masters ,and its not new ,they have been doing it since the 50s.
The Liverpool side in the 70s and the present Chelsea sides are prime examples,and dare I say the Leicester side last season,two Italian managers and old heads at Liverpool who studied the game.
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Comparing Intenational and PL players to L2 ones and expecting the same results?
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Harry dropped to bench tonight
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Quite possible/probable. Maybe more of a battle tonight....dare I suggest Keegan gets a run out but with Baudry restored alongside Butler?
Half expect Williams to start instead of Alfie.
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Same side as Saturday except Baudry in for Middleton
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Raven,defend first attack when you can,and not at the expense of leaving gaps that can be exposed,move forward together in shape, and retreat together in shape.
Watch the Italians,and Germans,they are the masters ,and its not new ,they have been doing it since the 50s.
The Liverpool side in the 70s and the present Chelsea sides are prime examples,and dare I say the Leicester side last season,two Italian managers and old heads at Liverpool who studied the Raven,defend first attack when you can,and not at the expense of leaving gaps that can be exposed,move forward together in shape, and retreat together in shape.
Watch the Italians,and Germans,they are the masters ,and its not new ,they have been doing it since the 50s.
The Liverpool side in the 70s and the present Chelsea sides are prime examples,and dare I say the Leicester side last season,two Italian managers and old heads at Liverpool who studied the game.
Don't think wing backs were ever mentioned in those days, defenders never moved further than the halfway line unless it was the centre half going up for a corner. In later years if a full back went forward a midfielder usually dropped in to cover him keeping a solid 4 at the back. As soneone has already said can't compare how Rovers play to International or top flight teams of later years
Our manager demands that our "full backs" get forward at every opportunity just listen to him during the game.
Anyway lets just agree to disagree we could go on back and forth for ever