Coronavirus

[Bristol Red Rover]

Conclusion:

Boris Johnson was wrong because he delayed Lockdown. Then he was wrong because he ended them too early. On the other hand, he was wrong because we went into lockdown too early, and then he was wrong because he kept us in lockdown too long! But then, he was wrong anyway because we shouldn't have gone into lockdown at all!

Boris Johnson never made a decision, I mean do you really think he has a Scooby about anything beyond cardboard buses and feeding Etonians? It was all conveniently outsourced to a particular branch of  "science". I'm not saying Labour would have done better, they're even more under the thumb in this realm.

[Nudga]

A communist behavioural scientist and her nudge unit was behind a lot of decisions

[Panda]

Susan Michie probably. Vile human.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If only the media had never reported COVID. Maybe 200,000 UK people wouldn't have died of it.

Where do you get those figures?

"My opinion is based on a careful and detailed analysis of the evidence"

Lost count how many times I've set this out, but here goes again.

As of the end of August, there had been 182,000 deaths where COVID had been stated as a contributing factor on the death certificate.

In addition, in March-April 2020, at the height of the first wave, there was a surge of 25,000 in excess deaths that were recorded as being due to flu/pneumonia type symptoms, but where COVID wasn't on the death certificate.

The ONS has investigated that surge in detail and concluded that by far the most likely explanation is that they were undiagnosed COVID cases. So that takes the total death toll to 207,000.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Isn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .

Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .

Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .

Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .

Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who  had this pandemic to deal with .

Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .

You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid.

There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.

One city.

But yeah, it was all a stitch up.

[Ldr]

If only the media had never reported COVID. Maybe 200,000 UK people wouldn't have died of it.

Where do you get those figures?

"My opinion is based on a careful and detailed analysis of the evidence"

Lost count how many times I've set this out, but here goes again.

As of the end of August, there had been 182,000 deaths where COVID had been stated as a contributing factor on the death certificate.

In addition, in March-April 2020, at the height of the first wave, there was a surge of 25,000 in excess deaths that were recorded as being due to flu/pneumonia type symptoms, but where COVID wasn't on the death certificate.

The ONS has investigated that surge in detail and concluded that by far the most likely explanation is that they were undiagnosed COVID cases. So that takes the total death toll to 207,000.

As an analyst this is why I have issue with what you state.

“A contributing factor” does not equate to “died of it” as you well know

Please stop misrepresenting figures.

Far too many people have died without you making things use

[Nudga]

A lot of those people were left to die, doctors guess it was COVID, no post mortems . But yeah,all covid.

[Panda]

Not to mention the evidence across the US and Europe that Covid was with us as early as October 2019.

[Bristol Red Rover]

BST - that's way off the mark in terms of careful and detailed analysis. You know this.

Deaths with does not equal deaths from - lets start there.

Further, the excess deaths that can be measured are partly to do with (I'm being kind) a stretched health service that let people die it would otherwise have kept alive. And then there are direct deaths from the lockdown effect - suicides, vulnerable people not receiving proper care, people not asking for help due to the "only contact the health service if it's essential", and so on, lots more reasons.

I have no doubt covid was a very serious illness, especially in its first incarnation.

The management should have been to protect vulnerable, isolate the infected, and to allow others to get on with their lives, as has been the case through most of human history.

[Panda]

BST - that's way off the mark in terms of careful and detailed analysis. You know this.

Deaths with does not equal deaths from - lets start there.

Further, the excess deaths that can be measured are partly to do with (I'm being kind) a stretched health service that let people die it would otherwise have kept alive. And then there are direct deaths from the lockdown effect - suicides, vulnerable people not receiving proper care, people not asking for help due to the "only contact the health service if it's essential", and so on, lots more reasons.

I have no doubt covid was a very serious illness, especially in its first incarnation.

The management should have been to protect vulnerable, isolate the infected, and to allow others to get on with their lives, as has been the case through most of human history.

This is a common sense approach and the only appropriate approach to the situation that sadly far too many seem unable to grasp.

[tyke1962]

One or two looking at this the wrong way in my opinion .

Your looking at this with today's eyes on and not what we were looking at in early 2020 .

As we went in to summer a thousand people were dying everyday of this awful virus .

Tell you something else too , we weren't locked down , not really unless you consider not going to the pub as locked down .

You could food shop , diy shops were open , you could get out and go for walks .

Let's have some perspective here , we weren't locked down in the full sense of the term .

[Panda]

One or two looking at this the wrong way in my opinion .

Your looking at this with today's eyes on and not what we were looking at in early 2020 .

As we went in to summer a thousand people were dying everyday of this awful virus .

Tell you something else too , we weren't locked down , not really unless you consider not going to the pub as locked down .

You could food shop , diy shops were open , you could get out and go for walks .

Let's have some perspective here , we weren't locked down in the full sense of the term .

Some of us didn't buy into it back in early 2020 and we now know the magnitude of the death and destruction of the virus was magnified a thousand times over by an obsessed MSM and agenda driven scientists. Some of us saw through that bull pretty much straight away.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Isn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .

Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .

Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .

Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .

Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who  had this pandemic to deal with .

Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .

You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid.

There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.

One city.

But yeah, it was all a stitch up.

And once again we see a chorus of "it wasn't that bad! You're misrepresenting the numbers. It was all a hoax."

And the horror of Bergamo is just ignored.

[Ldr]

Billy, it’s a fact, you are misrepresenting the numbers, you don’t even need to. Too many people died, that’s not been argued. What you cannot state as fact is that everyone where it states a contributing factor died FROM it.

Surely you can agree with that

[tyke1962]

One or two looking at this the wrong way in my opinion .

Your looking at this with today's eyes on and not what we were looking at in early 2020 .

As we went in to summer a thousand people were dying everyday of this awful virus .

Tell you something else too , we weren't locked down , not really unless you consider not going to the pub as locked down .

You could food shop , diy shops were open , you could get out and go for walks .

Let's have some perspective here , we weren't locked down in the full sense of the term .

Some of us didn't buy into it back in early 2020 and we now know the magnitude of the death and destruction of the virus was magnified a thousand times over by an obsessed MSM and agenda driven scientists. Some of us saw through that bull pretty much straight away.

Do you honestly believe a Tory government would pay folk like me 80% of my wages to stop at home for 6 months without genuine reason ? .

[Nudga]

Isn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .

Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .

Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .

Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .

Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who  had this pandemic to deal with .

Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .

You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid.

There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.

One city.

But yeah, it was all a stitch up.

And once again we see a chorus of "it wasn't that bad! You're misrepresenting the numbers. It was all a hoax."

And the horror of Bergamo is just ignored.

You ignore the current horrors of 1k excess deaths per week.

[Panda]

One or two looking at this the wrong way in my opinion .

Your looking at this with today's eyes on and not what we were looking at in early 2020 .

As we went in to summer a thousand people were dying everyday of this awful virus .

Tell you something else too , we weren't locked down , not really unless you consider not going to the pub as locked down .

You could food shop , diy shops were open , you could get out and go for walks .

Let's have some perspective here , we weren't locked down in the full sense of the term .

Some of us didn't buy into it back in early 2020 and we now know the magnitude of the death and destruction of the virus was magnified a thousand times over by an obsessed MSM and agenda driven scientists. Some of us saw through that bull pretty much straight away.

Do you honestly believe a Tory government would pay folk like me 80% of my wages to stop at home for 6 months without genuine reason ? .

The genuine reason was due to the scientists and their dodgy modelling, criminal catastrophizing and hidden agendas leading to them becoming power crazed over being able to dictate to the Government. Give them an inch and all that. That was the reason the Government went along with it initially. They were led by the scientists who all along proved they were a bunch of lying, conniving, useless manipulators. They were wrong too.

Makes my piss boil when the likes of Chris Whitty et al nearly destroyed my life, my kids education and instead of facing criminal charges, they get Knighthoods and get to retire with a fat pay off and loads of perks. I'll never stop trying to hold those cnuts to account until the day i die. Not through vaccine death though as i'd never put that mRNA filth in my system in the first palce.

[Panda]

Isn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .

Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .

Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .

Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .

Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who  had this pandemic to deal with .

Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .

You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid.

There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.

One city.

But yeah, it was all a stitch up.

And once again we see a chorus of "it wasn't that bad! You're misrepresenting the numbers. It was all a hoax."

And the horror of Bergamo is just ignored.

You ignore the current horrors of 1k excess deaths per week.

Yes. Oddly enough no mention of this in the MSM. No mention of the people vaccine damaged and dead due to the vaccine who have finally been given a voice on GB News, particularly by Mark Steyn and who would not have got a look in they were to rely on MSM to highlight their plight.

It is almost as if this isn't happening and these people don't exist when in fact it is a very real and serious problem that is only getting worse.

[Panda]

There is a news report that in Iceland (country not supermarket  ) the vaccine damage claims are hugely disproportionate to what one could reasonably expect and this is easily recordable due to the sparse population of the country.

Iceland has a large number of people, relative to population size who are claiming / have claimed for vaccine damage / injury / death.

The mRNA in particular is not something i'd want to be putting into my body put it that way.

[tyke1962]

Isn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .

Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .

Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .

Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .

Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who  had this pandemic to deal with .

Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .

You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid.

There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.

One city.

But yeah, it was all a stitch up.

And once again we see a chorus of "it wasn't that bad! You're misrepresenting the numbers. It was all a hoax."

And the horror of Bergamo is just ignored.

You ignore the current horrors of 1k excess deaths per week.

Yes. Oddly enough no mention of this in the MSM. No mention of the people vaccine damaged and dead due to the vaccine who have finally been given a voice on GB News, particularly by Mark Steyn and who would not have got a look in they were to rely on MSM to highlight their plight.

It is almost as if this isn't happening and these people don't exist when in fact it is a very real and serious problem that is only getting worse.

They say lots of things on GB News , ever considered why that might be ?

Have a think about it .

[Panda]

I had my own views on things before GB news came to air and they just happen to say things that i already agreed with and thought. I don't get influenced by them because i already hold those views.

Same with Talk Radio. I'm not daft enough to not think they have an agenda too but i am very much of the same views as Talk Radio and GB News as the MSM do not consider the other side of anything at all.

[ravenrover]

I've lost track of all this but the Christmas befire lockdown me and the Mrs were so ill with what we thought was flu, never had anything like it but the symptoms later appeared to be very Covid related.
We both locked down and had our jabs as requested all fine until Feb this year when we both caught Covid from our 6 year old grandaughter, nothing worse than a bad cold in comparison with what we had experienced in 2019.
Coming back from a week away with Mrs daughter and 2 kids in a caravan last week in the same car and I come back with a heavy cold, eventually tested and was positive. Neither my Mrs or my Daughter and the Grandkids tested pisitive how does that work?
My advice to EVERYONE vaxed or not, if you think you have a heavy cold take a test to be sure

[tyke1962]

I had my own views on things before GB news came to air and they just happen to say things that i already agreed with and thought. I don't get influenced by them because i already hold those views.

Same with Talk Radio. I'm not daft enough to not think they have an agenda too but i am very much of the same views as Talk Radio and GB News as the MSM do not consider the other side of anything at all.

With the rise of Trade Unions and people like Dave Ward and Mick Lynch becoming extremely relevant with their Enough is Enough group you'll see this autumn just how much GB News represents your views .

[drfchound]

Raven, my story is similar to yours.
Before we knew about covid I was also I’ll with what I thought was a bad case if flu. I was too poorly to even go out of the house, probably as bad as I can ever remember.
Earlier this year, after having my covid jabs myself and my wife plus four other adult family members took my grandkids out for the day to Sunnybank near Lindholme.
Within a few days, all the adults tested positive for covid and we all had mild cold like symptoms for a couple of weeks but none of us were particularly unwell.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Isn't Captain Hindsight a wonderful man to know .

Let's not believe the medical experts , the data , the images that hit our tv screens from northern Italy in the early days , the ability of the NHS to cope with the scale of this thing .

Let's not consider the elderly , those with serious health issues or anybody else for that matter .

Were mistakes made , yes , is mental health important yes it is .

Some people need to walk a few miles in the shoes of the people who  had this pandemic to deal with .

Folk like Neil Oliver spouting on GB News to his legion of conspiracy theorists didn't .

You're wasting your time Tyke I'm afraid.

There's a level of insistence among some folk to refuse to engage with the scale of horror that Bergamo showed us. The single place in the world that had an unmitigated COVID outbreak. A city a bit bigger than Sheffield saw 5-6000 COVID deaths in 6 weeks. It nearly brought down the health system if the whole of Lombardy, one of the richest and most developed places on earth. They were ferrying bodies all over northern Italy in freezer trucks for cremation.

One city.

But yeah, it was all a stitch up.

And once again we see a chorus of "it wasn't that bad! You're misrepresenting the numbers. It was all a hoax."

And the horror of Bergamo is just ignored.

You ignore the current horrors of 1k excess deaths per week.

And that's due to the vaccine Nudga, because someone on line who has spouted bullshit before told you?

But let's accept that's a genuine effect of...something nasty.

That's 1000 per week out of a population of 67 million.

Bergamo in March/April 2020 had 1000 COVID deaths a week out of a population of 800,000. Fag packet calcs say the death rate in Bergamo was 800 times higher than the one you keep banging on about now.

Where were your sharp-tongued posts and conspiracy theories over that?

[Panda]

You are obsessed with Bergamo. The Italians started this mess. Nudged by China to go into lockdown first and the groupthink that was the rest of Europes world leaders duly followed. Abandoning the pandemic plan already in place.

[SydneyRover]

Sydney. If you see a shark coming towards you in ‘attack mode’, can you frighten it off by hitting it on its nose?

I believe a sharks nose is very sensitive. A bit like a man’s knackers.

Thank you.

Talking b*llocks Col

Only asking.

knackers then?

[BillyStubbsTears]

You are obsessed with Bergamo. The Italians started this mess. Nudged by China to go into lockdown first and the groupthink that was the rest of Europes world leaders duly followed. Abandoning the pandemic plan already in place.

Not obsessed. I take a lesson from the only place in the world where there was an unmitigated outbreak. Don't you think there's a lesson to be learned?

Scale up the Bergamo case to the size of the UK.

There's have been 4-500,000 deaths in 2 months.

And that doesn't include the fact that the NHS would have been totally overwhelmed leading to unknown thousands of additional deaths.

You haven't had to face that alternative reality because action was taken. But there's no excuse for anyone just dismissing that consequence of what would have happened if we'd done what you wanted.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Billy, it’s a fact, you are misrepresenting the numbers, you don’t even need to. Too many people died, that’s not been argued. What you cannot state as fact is that everyone where it states a contributing factor died FROM it.

Surely you can agree with that

Ldr. Your obsession with accusing me of misrepresenting these numbers is only matched by your amnesia about the number of times I've explained the reasoning.

The 200k deaths broadly match the excess death numbers in 2020/21 when you allow for the reduction in deaths from the absence of a flu epidemic because of distancing.

The timing of when those excess deaths broadly matches the timing of the peaks in cases, offset by a week or two.

It's simply untenable not to link those deaths with the COVID cases.

Please address that before you go off down your rabbit hole once again if accusing me if misrepresenting anything.

[Ldr]

You are stating something as fact when you know it not to be true. Your reasoning MAY be sound but without hard evidence you are out of order stating it as fact rather than opinion that’s my issue.