The budget next season

[Al4475]

That's always been his stance, if someone comes along with a sensible offer and he can leave the club in their hands he'll do so until that happens he'll work on making the club sustain itself - and listen to possible suitors - how do you think the jr/lt thing even got considered - show me your plans and we'll listen - if it ain't gonna work we'll keep things going with our overall goal!

[drfchound]

If we ever do get back to the Championship, given that most weeks the away end would be much busier than it is in L1 and sometimes sold out and better, I think I am correct in saying that with ticket sales and add on that scenario alone is worth an extra £1m per season.

Obviously some of that income would have to go to wages for better players to keep us there but also, if we could stay up and rattle a few cages the home support could increase too.

On top of the hardcore fan base the floating fans will come and see a successful team.

[RedJ]

That's what I don't get about all the "they don't want us in the Championship" lark. Why would they actively not want us to gain more income?

[silent majority]

If we ever do get back to the Championship, given that most weeks the away end would be much busier than it is in L1 and sometimes sold out and better, I think I am correct in saying that with ticket sales and add on that scenario alone is worth an extra £1m per season.

Obviously some of that income would have to go to wages for better players to keep us there but also, if we could stay up and rattle a few cages the home support could increase too.

On top of the hardcore fan base the floating fans will come and see a successful team.

It's worth much more than that, the solidarity payments run to several millions more when in the Championship.

[drfchound]

If we ever do get back to the Championship, given that most weeks the away end would be much busier than it is in L1 and sometimes sold out and better, I think I am correct in saying that with ticket sales and add on that scenario alone is worth an extra £1m per season.

Obviously some of that income would have to go to wages for better players to keep us there but also, if we could stay up and rattle a few cages the home support could increase too.

On top of the hardcore fan base the floating fans will come and see a successful team.

It's worth much more than that, the solidarity payments run to several millions more when in the Championship.

Obviously I don’t know how much those payments add up to SM but clearly, if they are what you say then that £2m per season that some posters are on about would not be required.
As RedJ posted, why would anyone not want us to get into the Championship?

[silent majority]

If we ever do get back to the Championship, given that most weeks the away end would be much busier than it is in L1 and sometimes sold out and better, I think I am correct in saying that with ticket sales and add on that scenario alone is worth an extra £1m per season.

Obviously some of that income would have to go to wages for better players to keep us there but also, if we could stay up and rattle a few cages the home support could increase too.

On top of the hardcore fan base the floating fans will come and see a successful team.

It's worth much more than that, the solidarity payments run to several millions more when in the Championship.

Obviously I don’t know how much those payments add up to SM but clearly, if they are what you say then that £2m per season that some posters are on about would not be required.
As RedJ posted, why would anyone not want us to get into the Championship?

It's been said many a time, it's easier to balance the books in the Championship than it is in LG1, the extra revenue outweighs the costs.

[DonnyOsmond]

We're looking at somewhere over £6 million more than what we get now.

[Cantley Rover]

That's what I don't get about all the "they don't want us in the Championship" lark. Why would they actively not want us to gain more income?

I think the point many of us are trying to make and you cannot see it is. "Why would they actively not want us to gain more income" I am sure they do but have you never heard the expression "Speculate to accumulate?" There doesn't seem to be much evidence of any real speculation.

[Copps is Magic]

The financial bubble of the premiership essentially means relegated clubs need grotesque amounts of money just to not go bust. Which makes it essentially unpractical for smaller teams to compete without huge short-term financial speculation or a miracle.

Of course the odd one occasionally does go bust which gives the illusion of competitiveness.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The financial bubble of the premiership essentially means relegated clubs need grotesque amounts of money just to not go bust. Which makes it essentially unpractical for smaller teams to compete without huge short-term financial speculation or a miracle.

Of course the odd one occasionally does go bust which gives the illusion of competitiveness.

The thing that no-one has mentioned yet is that every other club in the division gets that income too. So just getting to the Championship isn't the end of the ambition, it's staying there that's the real struggle.

[drfchound]

The financial bubble of the premiership essentially means relegated clubs need grotesque amounts of money just to not go bust. Which makes it essentially unpractical for smaller teams to compete without huge short-term financial speculation or a miracle.

Of course the odd one occasionally does go bust which gives the illusion of competitiveness.

The thing that no-one has mentioned yet is that every other club in the division gets that income too. So just getting to the Championship isn't the end of the ambition, it's staying there that's the real struggle.

I think that anyone with a brain would know that a small club like us would always have a problem just staying up in the Championship.
It has been evident for some years.

Irrespective of that, the point is that the extra money goes a long way to the sustainability that is being discussed.

[sedwardsdrfc]

Would we be sustainable in the championship if we also aimed to sustain our league position, in the championship?

 Because every league seems to have lots teams hell bent on promotion that and will throw everything they have at it. Doesn't this mean we'd just have to increase our wages, to compete, to a level that means outside investment (more like charity) will again be required? 

If we can produce some sellable players that will make it easier to be sustainable but i just think football in this country is basically on financial steroids and no one can compete and be sustainable at the same time because then your the only one not on steroids at the olympics!

Not that i expect massive handouts from the owners i'm just lamenting how overinflated it all is

[RedJ]

That's what I don't get about all the "they don't want us in the Championship" lark. Why would they actively not want us to gain more income?

I think the point many of us are trying to make and you cannot see it is. "Why would they actively not want us to gain more income" I am sure they do but have you never heard the expression "Speculate to accumulate?" There doesn't seem to be much evidence of any real speculation.

I'd rather build the club up year on year than spunk a f**k ton of money for the sake of looking like we're "going for it" and hope it sticks.

I can see exactly the point you and others make, I just don't agree with it.

[Chris Black come back]

Will be interesting comparison given that the budget is seemingly in the same region as last season, whether our new manager can best our frankly piss poor football last season and modest league performance.

I put last season in same bucket as the first season back in League One after we got relegated from the Championship under Dickov ie totally forgettable and a black hole of nothingness. Dull. Turgid. Bland.

[dknward2]

That's what I don't get about all the "they don't want us in the Championship" lark. Why would they actively not want us to gain more income?

I think the point many of us are trying to make and you cannot see it is. "Why would they actively not want us to gain more income" I am sure they do but have you never heard the expression "Speculate to accumulate?" There doesn't seem to be much evidence of any real speculation.

I'd rather build the club up year on year than spunk a f**k ton of money for the sake of looking like we're "going for it" and hope it sticks.

I can see exactly the point you and others make, I just don't agree with it.

I agree build up within our means and budget.

Can you imagine if the board said stuff it one last go instead of 2 million this year it will be 4 million but if we fail then you will get nothing next season oh and sorry but we can’t afford to write off that debt so it will stay with the club.

Now imagine if it fails the club now has 4 million quid of debt, can’t afford to buy any one has expensive players on big wages that most clubs may not want, the manager may have quit.

We drop out of league one relying on loans and youth and players who not want to be here. So called fans start calling for the board to go, so they think stuff it and quit too putting the club up for sale to the first person or group that comes along. We start in league 2 we get a no named manager and players we don’t recognise, by Xmas we are in the bottom 2 fans call for the manager to go so new owner does just that another no name manager from some under 23 side in Europe comes in brings in a few youngsters thinks start to look up a few wins great we will be ok then it happens the injury crisis. We slide down the league and get relegated in our final match against Grimsby.

Or that may not happen but it’s happened to so many other clubs you think people may have learnt their lessons by now.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Once bitten, twice shy? The shenanigans over the fall out from the first spell in the Championship, the Experiment, the loss of JR's funding and the two takeover attempts may have taken their toll when trying to stabilise the club. The Club Doncaster concept, muted when JR was still around, was scoffed at but now we can see that the income to replace that shortfall post the Three Amigos was a sound business initiative.

Wages can easily spiral and before you know it, the annual commitment can double or triple.

As much as we would like to see additional quality players, I would not ask anyone to take gamble on my behalf. Call me a happy clapper if you like but I'm in the camp that thinks we can do better with the financial resources we have and the risks already being underwritten.

On the pitch, I didn't see a gulf between our near neighbours. What I did see could be resolved between the ears and that in my view was down to preparation, mental conditioning of the players and tactical changes. It was a theme that recurred. Let's face it, there's hundreds of threads throughout the season relating to our inability to see out games. That said, no one said it was going to be easy and it won't be easy for the new manager. Winning promotion is difficult. Even after the wheeling and dealing is done it has to be earned on the pitch.

[drfchound]

That's what I don't get about all the "they don't want us in the Championship" lark. Why would they actively not want us to gain more income?

I think the point many of us are trying to make and you cannot see it is. "Why would they actively not want us to gain more income" I am sure they do but have you never heard the expression "Speculate to accumulate?" There doesn't seem to be much evidence of any real speculation.

I'd rather build the club up year on year than spunk a f**k ton of money for the sake of looking like we're "going for it" and hope it sticks.

I can see exactly the point you and others make, I just don't agree with it.

I agree build up within our means and budget.

Can you imagine if the board said stuff it one last go instead of 2 million this year it will be 4 million but if we fail then you will get nothing next season oh and sorry but we can’t afford to write off that debt so it will stay with the club.

Now imagine if it fails the club now has 4 million quid of debt, can’t afford to buy any one has expensive players on big wages that most clubs may not want, the manager may have quit.

We drop out of league one relying on loans and youth and players who not want to be here. So called fans start calling for the board to go, so they think stuff it and quit too putting the club up for sale to the first person or group that comes along. We start in league 2 we get a no named manager and players we don’t recognise, by Xmas we are in the bottom 2 fans call for the manager to go so new owner does just that another no name manager from some under 23 side in Europe comes in brings in a few youngsters thinks start to look up a few wins great we will be ok then it happens the injury crisis. We slide down the league and get relegated in our final match against Grimsby.

Or that may not happen but it’s happened to so many other clubs you think people may have learnt their lessons by now.

What, many other clubs have been relegated after their final game against Grimsby?

[DearneValleyRover]

Look at what is happening at Villa! Threw money at it and now deep in the doo doo, Derby also having problems. These things aren’t going away and we will see more and more of these so called big clubs who have flaunted ffp start to have problems. The bubble is starting to burst, bt have announced they didn’t get back what they hoped from premier and champions league football, yes Amazon are going to show games but the amount the company’s bid will lower due to people cancelling subscriptions. Being run properly will pay dividends in the long run.

[Glyn_Wigley]

And Villa still have two years of parachute payments!

[Bentley Bullet]

When we were relegated from the Championship last time the board stated that the days of big signings were over and from now on the club was going to produce homegrown talent from within. Bearing in mind that we had the second lowest budget in the Championship, I thought to say it was a lack of ambition was an understatement. From talking to other supporters I found I wasn't alone with that opinion. I believe many people are still of the same opinion now.

Since that relegation, there has been very little to cheer about, other than the rectification of another relegation with a promotion that put us back to square one. As well as on the pitch stagnation, there has been very little off the pitch progress reported. There seems to be a distinct lack of information from the club. The progress it has achieved is not being made common knowledge. An example of that is the 2 million quid the board pumps in to keep us afloat is not a necessity any more. Prior knowledge of this info would have been great publicity regarding the progress they have made off the pitch.

Now with this in mind, perhaps we might see the necessary improvement on the pitch. Our last promotion to the Championship was down to the size of the budget. Hopefully, some of the money saved from the improved running of the club can be used in the same way.

[GazLaz]

And Villa still have two years of parachute payments!

They’ve already had one of the two owed. They got it paid early.

[wing commander]

   You look at Villa's squad and you struggle to work out how they are in such a position it's hardly full of superstars yet the money they have spent on wages and transfers is eye watering..They bought a lot of average for top top buck..
    They couldn't even afford to give the players new suits for the play off final..They really needed to win that and when they didn't they knew they were goosed..
     Like at any level it's easy to say offload the players etc etc but like we had with Williams,even if clubs are interested if the players are getting paid more than anybody else will offer,they wont go anywhere..

[Cantley Rover]

Maybe its me who cannot understand what I have just read on here but it seems we no longer need the £2m each season the owners currently put in and the club can stand on its own feet.
Surely if this is the case should the figures not show we are making £2m a year profit?

[sedwardsdrfc]

No because we are spending an extra £2m on activities that are for the long term good of the club rather than immediate on the pitch activities, that's how i interpret it anyway.

[Canadian Rover]

I'd love to see our club make a small profit every season without a couple of million each season from the board...and I wouldn't care if it was in league 2. I'm thankful our board has done what it has...but give me a Mitchell Lund from the youth team over a Cedric Evina any day.

[sedwardsdrfc]

   You look at Villa's squad and you struggle to work out how they are in such a position it's hardly full of superstars yet the money they have spent on wages and transfers is eye watering..They bought a lot of average for top top buck..
    They couldn't even afford to give the players new suits for the play off final..They really needed to win that and when they didn't they knew they were goosed..
     Like at any level it's easy to say offload the players etc etc but like we had with Williams,even if clubs are interested if the players are getting paid more than anybody else will offer,they wont go anywhere..

Villa is pretty full of players who once played in the prem (even though they aren't that good) which means contracts will be ridiculous. 

[Cantley Rover]

I'd love to see our club make a small profit every season without a couple of million each season from the board...and I wouldn't care if it was in league 2. I'm thankful our board has done what it has...but give me a Mitchell Lund from the youth team over a Cedric Evina any day.

Good job you are in Canada and don't have to watch it then.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

No because we are spending an extra £2m on activities that are for the long term good of the club rather than immediate on the pitch activities, that's how i interpret it anyway.

In addition, we need to remember the club have made significant concessions on ticket prices to try and cement the future growth with cheap as chips prices for kids and youth etc. I go back to 2009/10 ish and my St for the West stand was just short of £500! Whilst season memberships may be up, the income per head will have reduced significantly.

[DRNaith]

I'm cynically waiting to see what actually happens to Villa before I take them as an example.

I'm not saying that nothing will happen, but there does seem to be an inconsistency around things like this.

[silent majority]

If you really want to see how lucky we are try reading this from Andy Holt at Accrington Stanley. It's on twitter;

https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status/1005747335694114816