The budget next season

[dickos1]

Top 8 or top 10 budget, take either really as last season we were I think in neither position at pretty much any point throughout the entire season, let alone at the end.

We undershot our resources significantly and being safe from relegation a few games shy of the end of the season was celebrated as a major success, while clubs with budgets far less than our own were streets ahead.

As a manager you need to make use of your resources and then some. We managed to undershoot and seemingly piss away our financial strength.

As Gaz said earlier the top 7 or 8 budgets in league one will be a lot higher than the others, there will then be a host of clubs all very similar and then 4 or 5 clubs with much smaller budgets.

[RoversAlias]

At the end of the day let's all accept the facts. We are a league 1 club with directors whose personal wealth is probably in the region of half a billion pounds.
They are prepared to keep the club going with the least amount of finance that will enable us to remain in this division but not risk trying to get any higher.
So the result is we are a sustainable league 1 club. Let just accept that and get on with it. Forget championship football unless we acheive a fluke it aint going to happen.

That is completely unfounded, not a fact at all.

That is your opinion. I think otherwise.

You might have to look up what a fact actually is in that case.

[Cantley Rover]

At the end of the day let's all accept the facts. We are a league 1 club with directors whose personal wealth is probably in the region of half a billion pounds.
They are prepared to keep the club going with the least amount of finance that will enable us to remain in this division but not risk trying to get any higher.
So the result is we are a sustainable league 1 club. Let just accept that and get on with it. Forget championship football unless we acheive a fluke it aint going to happen.

That is completely unfounded, not a fact at all.

That is your opinion. I think otherwise.

You might have to look up what a fact actually is in that case.

Do you want to point out where I am wrong then and back it up with facts?

[RedJ]

Ah the old "I'll make up a statement and then make you prove me wrong".

[Cantley Rover]

Ah the old "I'll make up a statement and then make you prove me wrong".

Your pal said That is completely unfounded, not a fact at all.
I stand by what I said. Maybe you want to answer for him?

[RedJ]

You made the initial statement, surely you're the one to back up what you've said?

[Cantley Rover]

You made the initial statement, surely you're the one to back up what you've said?

What a surprise. So tell me then why am I wrong. I made a statement. If it is incorrect please tell me which part is incorrect.

[RedJ]

So what you're saying is you can't back up what you've said. Thought so. Not responding anymore.

[Cantley Rover]

So what you're saying is you can't back up what you've said. Thought so. Not responding anymore.

Why do I need to back it up? Everything I have said is true. If it isn't then tell me which part isn't. Simple really I would have thought.

[RoversAlias]

Nah RedJ is bang on. Textbook "prove me wrong on my unfounded statement". A pretty poor attempt at that!

[DonnyOsmond]

At the end of the day let's all accept the facts. We are a league 1 club with directors whose personal wealth is probably in the region of half a billion pounds.
They are prepared to keep the club going with the least amount of finance that will enable us to remain in this division but not risk trying to get any higher.
So the result is we are a sustainable league 1 club. Let just accept that and get on with it. Forget championship football unless we acheive a fluke it aint going to happen.

That is completely unfounded, not a fact at all.

That is your opinion. I think otherwise.

You might have to look up what a fact actually is in that case.

Do you want to point out where I am wrong then and back it up with facts?

The owners are putting in £2 million a year to fill gaps and they're not complaining. There's clubs in our league on half the budget we are on living healthy, the owners could just do that.

Stop with this shitty notion we've got tight owners who don't want to spend when they've put in over £20 million pounds in 10 years and the notion that the only way to have success is to hemorrhage a shit ton of money.

[Glyn_Wigley]

At the end of the day let's all accept the facts. We are a league 1 club with directors whose personal wealth is probably in the region of half a billion pounds.
They are prepared to keep the club going with the least amount of finance that will enable us to remain in this division but not risk trying to get any higher.
So the result is we are a sustainable league 1 club. Let just accept that and get on with it. Forget championship football unless we acheive a fluke it aint going to happen.

That is completely unfounded, not a fact at all.

That is your opinion. I think otherwise.

You might have to look up what a fact actually is in that case.

Do you want to point out where I am wrong then and back it up with facts?

The bit in bold. Facts?  The fact they've already financed us into the Championship once already and paid to keep us there for four seasons.

Now then, where are your facts?

[Alan Southstand]

Were there not 3 directors keeping us in the Championship for 4 years?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Were there not 3 directors keeping us in the Championship for 4 years?

Yes, but only 2 of them were providing most of the finance.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Of course attendances dropped. The initial novelty of the new ground increased crowds. That was bound to be temporary. Then, attendances dropped further as the team struggled to win games!

I said, if we"d had stayed in the Championship for longer then maybe the fan base may have grown. But, I was just suggesting a reason why that bit more investment didn't happen.

In my view it takes a generation to really change things, certainly more than 5 years to reduce the risk of the young uns being lured by Leeds, Sheff Utd,, Sheff Wed etc, consistently competing with or above them. But that's another debate.

I' ll stick by the premise that if higher income from higher attendances would more likely encourage more financial input from the owners. Catch 22 maybe.

[steve@dcfd]

Of course attendances dropped. The initial novelty of the new ground increased crowds. That was bound to be temporary. Then, attendances dropped further as the team struggled to win games!

I said, if we"d had stayed in the Championship for longer then maybe the fan base may have grown. But, I was just suggesting a reason why that bit more investment didn't happen.

In my view it takes a generation to really change things, certainly more than 5 years to reduce the risk of the young uns being lured by Leeds, Sheff Utd,, Sheff Wed etc, consistently competing with or above them. But that's another debate.

I' ll stick by the premise that if higher income from higher attendances would more likely encourage more financial input from the owners. Catch 22 maybe.

I can agree with that but the owners have set the target of a top six finish, they are the ones who want by their 5 year plan to consolidate in the Championship by 2022. So to get there they must provides the funds which will achieve their goal.
Then the attendances will grow if we can consolidate in the Championship.

[Alan Southstand]

Yes, but only 2 of them were providing most of the finance.

That makes perfect sense, as 2/3 is greater than 1/3!

[Glyn_Wigley]

Yes, but only 2 of them were providing most of the finance.

That makes perfect sense, as 2/3 is greater than 1/3!

You missed the use of the word 'only'.

[silent majority]

Silent majority, you posted a reply on the 6th June suggesting we had a top 8 budget and now you seem to be suggesting we had a top 10 budget last season. Might seem like splitting hairs but which one is true?

You might need to read my question again CiM. It was a general question and wasn't specific to DRFC, therefore I'm not suggesting anything.

[silent majority]

SM, first of all, why are you asking me these questions? Have I suddenly become the font of all knowledge?

Anyway, let's skip that one. Just for fun, in answer to question 1, IF we hadn't had the level of injuries that we sustained last season, I believe we would have made top 10 comfortably, that is to say 10th. Check out the league table and the points spread yourself - we were not that far off.

Question 2? We already had a decent manager for the level we were at and the one above, as he met all the criteria that the Club have set out for the new manager. It goes without saying, surely, that to achieve the Club's stated aim, we are going to need a decent squad, or am I missing something?

My question to you is:

Do you believe we have a budget that will meet the Club's stated aim of a top 6 finish this coming season?

I was responding to your post Alan, which is why I asked you the question.  Isn't that what we do on here?

In particular I was responding to this comment you made ;

DF believed the funds being provided were insufficient to achieve the stated aim - he did as much as he thought he could with the resources provided. If last season showed anything, it is that we needed much more than we had, to progress under DF's guidance.

My question was a general one, in fact both questions were, but you answered from a DRFC point of view. I was much more interested in the relationship between resources, position in the table and the ability of a manager to manage those resources.

[silent majority]

Hang on, so you are saying our budget matched Wigan, Blackburn and Rotherham's?

No. Just wrote that whilst on the move, sorry.

The question is, if you have resources that put you in the top 10 where do you expect to finish?

And a secondary question as well.

Do you think you should pay for a top manager and a modest squad or a top squad and a modest manager?

It completely depends on what the difference between you and the sides around you is. It’s probably the case where the difference between 8th and 16th is very minimal.

Isn't the difference around you the manager?

[dickos1]

Genuine question and not specific to us but
What if you have a decent budget but a good portion of that is made up of players that you didn’t sign and don’t rate? Should you still then be judged on the budget?
People seem to be thinking the budget is the be all and end all of where sides should finish.
I think there’s has to be more than just that to be considered otherwise you wouldn’t get scenarios such as bury, Burnley, Cardiff, Sunderland, Shrewsbury, Accrington Stanley etc etc etc

[silent majority]

The point is failure is easy. To fail you merely have to have cultivated bad habits.

We can all do that.

[nortikorner]

A Budget is a Budget weather high or low you work with  in that Budget  or perish, Look at Aston Villa £51m on five players no promotion  in trouble now,  winding up orders  we do not want that.If you can not work to the budget you have to go the  Trouble is so call Managers can only work if they can splash the cash

[Cantley Rover]

A Budget is a Budget weather high or low you work with  in that Budget  or perish, Look at Aston Villa £51m on five players no promotion  in trouble now,  winding up orders  we do not want that.If you can not work to the budget you have to go the  Trouble is so call Managers can only work if they can splash the cash

Aston Villa have been served a winding up order by HMRC for non payment of tax. Is that the Managers fault?

[selby]

  What the boards next job is, is to get a better manager than we had last season.
   Not easy, but not impossible either.
    How many times have people on here heard at work, "I don't know what we will do when he/she leaves who can do their job?" a fortnight later they have been forgotten.
  If we had a couple of games this week, and won both with Strachan in charge, most would be more than happy for him to carry on in charge.

[RoversAlias]

A Budget is a Budget weather high or low you work with  in that Budget  or perish, Look at Aston Villa £51m on five players no promotion  in trouble now,  winding up orders  we do not want that.If you can not work to the budget you have to go the  Trouble is so call Managers can only work if they can splash the cash

Aston Villa have been served a winding up order by HMRC for non payment of tax. Is that the Managers fault?

If they had gone up this season they would have far more money at their disposal and wouldn't be needing to worry about winding up orders or what appears to be some big cost-cutting this summer. So you can say it is down to the manager that he hasn't gotten a squad worth more than any other in the division near enough promoted.

[silent majority]

A Budget is a Budget weather high or low you work with  in that Budget  or perish, Look at Aston Villa £51m on five players no promotion  in trouble now,  winding up orders  we do not want that.If you can not work to the budget you have to go the  Trouble is so call Managers can only work if they can splash the cash

Aston Villa have been served a winding up order by HMRC for non payment of tax. Is that the Managers fault?

Do you realise how hypocritical you sound? You constantly berate our owners for not overspending to suit your wishes and yet seem ambivalent about another club that has done precisely that.

[Cantley Rover]

A Budget is a Budget weather high or low you work with  in that Budget  or perish, Look at Aston Villa £51m on five players no promotion  in trouble now,  winding up orders  we do not want that.If you can not work to the budget you have to go the  Trouble is so call Managers can only work if they can splash the cash

Aston Villa have been served a winding up order by HMRC for non payment of tax. Is that the Managers fault?

Do you realise how hypocritical you sound? You constantly berate our owners for not overspending to suit your wishes and yet seem ambivalent about another club that has done precisely that.

I simply pointed out that the winding up order that Nortikorner referred to was due to HMRC not being paid. I will bow to your superior knowledge if that is incorrect.

[Glyn_Wigley]

At the end of the day let's all accept the facts. We are a league 1 club with directors whose personal wealth is probably in the region of half a billion pounds.
They are prepared to keep the club going with the least amount of finance that will enable us to remain in this division but not risk trying to get any higher.
So the result is we are a sustainable league 1 club. Let just accept that and get on with it. Forget championship football unless we acheive a fluke it aint going to happen.

That is completely unfounded, not a fact at all.

That is your opinion. I think otherwise.

You might have to look up what a fact actually is in that case.

Do you want to point out where I am wrong then and back it up with facts?

The bit in bold. Facts?  The fact they've already financed us into the Championship once already and paid to keep us there for four seasons.

Now then, where are your facts?

Still waiting for Cantley's 'facts'.