Paris

[RobTheRover]

Rob, how long can people keep up that level of security checking at every venue in the country though?
After a while it all goes back to normal and them the terrorist strikes again.
As is being discussed on another thread, serious measures against IS have to be taken in an attempt to wipe them off the Earth.
Lots of people are saying what shouldnt be done but anyone who makes a suggestion about bombing or sending troops in is getting "shot down" (no pun) without much in the way of an alternative being put forward.

A good point,  Hound. In contrast,  I saw Frank Turner on Thursday night at Sheffield O2 Academy and security was very relaxed. Only the odd person was getting frisked and my mates and I walked straight in

[Sprotyrover]

Major racking up of Defence to be announced next week UK to buy 136 F35 Stealth fighters instead of a mere 42 for our Queen Elizabeth Carriers making us 2nd most powerful maritime Power after US.
We are also going to replace the Nimrod ASW aircraft with something new instead of the 3 ,40 year old Rivet joint Aircraft we are currently using.
Also linking the £12 Billion aid budget with defence so we spend money on Nations which are in need of re building after war etc.

[BillyStubbsTears]

THIS is the reason why we need to keep cool heads.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/24/donald-trump-on-waterboarding-even-if-it-doesnt-work-they-deserve-it

Read that again. This man is going to be the Republican Presidential candidate next November.

"Would I approve waterboarding? You bet your ass I would. In a heartbeat. I would approve more than that. It works… and if it doesn’t work, they deserve it anyway for what they do to us."

This man could well be the Leader of the Free World in 12 months. And he's not only advocating the illegal use of torture. He's advocating using it as retribution even if it doesn't work.

What exactly ARE these values that we're supposed to be guarding and cherishing in this fight with radical Islamism?

[Sandy Lane]

Billy, Trump has been coming out with outlandish things like this for awhile now.  We either laugh, cringe or ignore him.  I know middle American loves his knee jerk diatribes, but it's hard to believe that someone with an Ivy League education, and is a millionaire with a huge empire of real estate holdings did not succeed because of narrow views, racist statements and not doing research on issues important to his businesses.

It's his  schtick (sp?)  to get press coverage and in a way is a parody of all politicians, and I'm sure he knows it.  I can only believe that if the American people are stupid enough to elect him, that he stops this ridiculousness, and actually thinks!   

Well, thats what we hope anyway...  😧 .

Trouble is Hillary, whom I have lost respect for due to her email scandals, is the best person to lead the country, but may have lost it already because use of this. 

Tough times ahead I'm afraid on a lot of different levels.

[The Red Baron]

Surely if it comes down to Trump vs Clinton then Clinton will win. I read somewhere that the Clinton camp has been delighted with the way the Republican race has played out, as they were desperate to avoid fighting someone seen as "mainstream."

I suppose it is similar to the situation in this country. The Tories will be relaxed so long as Corbyn remains Labour leader. Although people might look at Corbyn and agree with some of his policies, they can't see themselves voting for him to be PM. I guess it is the same with Trump, although from a completely different political angle.

[Sandy Lane]

I certainly hope so TRB!  The trouble is Clinton is thought of as unlikeable, so hope they can get past that and  also not be taken in by Trump's bluster.

[bobjimwilly]

How anyone can vote for that buffoon Trump is beyond me. He makes Boris Johnson look like Brian Cox.
(For anyone else who isn't aware of the extent of Trump's buffoonery, here's 21 things the Republican believes)

[The Red Baron]

I certainly hope so TRB!  The trouble is Clinton is thought of as unlikeable, so hope they can get past that and  also not be taken in by Trump's bluster.

I think Clinton is unlikeable also. I think it's a pity the Democrats can't come up with someone more appealing.

Although Obama was appealing, but hasn't proved to be a very effective President.

[Glyn_Wigley]

How anyone can vote for that buffoon Trump is beyond me. He makes Boris Johnson look like Brian Cox.
(For anyone else who isn't aware of the extent of Trump's buffoonery, here's 21 things the Republican believes)

If Bush can get elected twice, Trump can very easily win over the same part of the electorate. Which is bloody scary.

[Bentley Bullet]

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Winston Churchill

[BillyStubbsTears]

Aye. But the electorate called it right in 1945 though. Maybe that's what gave the miserable old Kitson the hump.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Eh up BB

Apparently there's no evidence that Churchill ever said that.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CAURBAAAQBAJ&dq=average+voter+churchill+by+himself+google+books&q=average+voter#v=snippet&q=average%20voter&f=false

[BobG]

It's still a bloody good line though.

BobG

[Bentley Bullet]

Eh up BB

Apparently there's no evidence that Churchill ever said that.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CAURBAAAQBAJ&dq=average+voter+churchill+by+himself+google+books&q=average+voter#v=snippet&q=average%20voter&f=false

Well I'll claim it then!

[Orlandokarla]

THIS is the reason why we need to keep cool heads.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/24/donald-trump-on-waterboarding-even-if-it-doesnt-work-they-deserve-it

Read that again. This man is going to be the Republican Presidential candidate next November.

"Would I approve waterboarding? You bet your ass I would. In a heartbeat. I would approve more than that. It works… and if it doesn’t work, they deserve it anyway for what they do to us."

This man could well be the Leader of the Free World in 12 months. And he's not only advocating the illegal use of torture. He's advocating using it as retribution even if it doesn't work.

What exactly ARE these values that we're supposed to be guarding and cherishing in this fight with radical Islamism?

I'm pretty sure that the 2nd Amendment was written with somebody like Trump in mind.

[Copps is Magic]

Interesting I was told on this thread guns aren't the problem.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34942450

[wilts rover]

Interesting I was told on this thread guns aren't the problem.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34942450

It may have been better if they had let them through.
http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2015/04/21/viral-video-quickly-leads-winchester-sxp-shotgun-recall/

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sandy

For what it's worth, I don't buy the "Trump knows it's wrong but he's doing it to get elected line." I reckon he has just let his ignorant and bigoted beliefs off the leash because he knows that thry resonate with a big chunk of the electorate.

That is a frightening indictment of America. But if your claim is right, it's even scarier.

If a serious candidate for the White House is deliberately and knowingly spreading lies like this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35037007
in order to boost his chances of being elected, then I fear greatly for the future. When politicians play these games, when they knowingly play up to ignorance and hatred, then we're truly on the edge of the precipice.

These are NOT times to be fostering hatred.

[Orlandokarla]

Now the moron is refusing to back down over claims that followers of Islam shouldn't even be allowed to enter the country.

He's a caricature encompassing everything wrong with this country. As his comments and claims become increasingly outlandish, I'm starting to wonder if this isn't all some sort of perverse joke.
Or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

There is no way he will become president; I'm just not having it.

[BobG]

There's been some lunatic Republicans down the years, but this one takes the cake. I've signed the petition.

BobG

[Orlandokarla]

He was on SNL a few weeks ago. I'm hoping he thinks he's still there, and he's merely trying to amuse us with his witty improv.
I find it difficult to believe the man has ever even read the Constitution.

[Sandy Lane]

Sandy

For what it's worth, I don't buy the "Trump knows it's wrong but he's doing it to get elected line." I reckon he has just let his ignorant and bigoted beliefs off the leash because he knows that thry resonate with a big chunk of the electorate.

That is a frightening indictment of America. But if your claim is right, it's even scarier.

If a serious candidate for the White House is deliberately and knowingly spreading lies like this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35037007
in order to boost his chances of being elected, then I fear greatly for the future. When politicians play these games, when they knowingly play up to ignorance and hatred, then we're truly on the edge of the precipice.

These are NOT times to be fostering hatred.

I understand your concern Billy but as others have said, I doubt he will actually get that far in his campaign.  There is starting to be a backlash about his views, both within the Republican Party, outside it and in the press. Maybe we have all stopped laughing and realize that he is just too damaging to our country with the things he says.  He may appeal to a certain populace, but given that he is saying things that go against our constitution and are racist and ignorant, his appeal will diminish as more and more press coverage is given to his opposition, discussed in the news, and also in editorial pieces which shed light on his unethical views. 

And of course I hope this happens sooner rather than later - before his rants can cause serious harm here or in England.

As for what he is thinking or why, it's anyone's guess at this stage!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sandy

I admire your optimism about your countrymen. Not sure the polling evidence backs up such a sanguine approach. A VERY large percentage of your countrymen and a majority of Republicans appear to support some of the nutcase ideas that Trump espouses.

http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm

And every time Trump ups the ante, his support increases.
http://www.pollingreport.com/wh16rep.htm

What makes you think that media exposure of his views will bleed his support away. I'd say the opposite. What he is doing is giving validation to the ignorant bigotry that maybe 30-40% of the electorate (according to those polls) appear to agree with but maybe were reticent about expressing until a demagogue came along telling them that they should be proud of these ideas.

And if he DOESN'T get the ticket? Look at the other contenders.

Carson is even more unhinged.

Rubio has been on record as being unsure about evolution and whether the Earth was or was not created in accordance with the Genesis story.

Cruz is a balls-out climate-change denier.

It's not promising is it? In that company, Trump is just first among equals in his ignorant stupidity.

[Sammy Chung was King]

My worry is that people of the nature of Trump, will start being elected in a lot of the countries. They have fixed, narrow and bigoted opinions on how things should be done.
This will escalate the troubles across the world. If you stop innocent people being able to go about everyday life, just because of colour or religion, where does it stop?.
Would he start making them wear armbands like the jews?, would it lead to ethnic cleansing as they call it?.
The fears of the world could lead to people like this getting in power, because they are saying things that make the people, feel like they will prioritise their security. Whereas the truth is a person like this as president is a danger to the whole world, with the influence any US president has, and the security of the people would be worse!.

It would lead to normal people thinking that those committing these atrocities, might have a point, it seems the extreme point of view is growing around the world!.
For me you stop the bombing, you secure things in your own country as best you can, and the British people and other countries have to get on with everyday life.
If they bring these things to our shores, they shouldn't be taken down to take to court, they should be took down where they stand, to let them know that if they blight our shores with their presence, they will meet their maker very soon!.

[Orlandokarla]

Sandy

I admire your optimism about your countrymen. Not sure the polling evidence backs up such a sanguine approach. A VERY large percentage of your countrymen and a majority of Republicans appear to support some of the nutcase ideas that Trump espouses.

http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm

And every time Trump ups the ante, his support increases.
http://www.pollingreport.com/wh16rep.htm

What makes you think that media exposure of his views will bleed his support away. I'd say the opposite. What he is doing is giving validation to the ignorant bigotry that maybe 30-40% of the electorate (according to those polls) appear to agree with but maybe were reticent about expressing until a demagogue came along telling them that they should be proud of these ideas.

And if he DOESN'T get the ticket? Look at the other contenders.

Carson is even more unhinged.

Rubio has been on record as being unsure about evolution and whether the Earth was or was not created in accordance with the Genesis story.

Cruz is a balls-out climate-change denier.

It's not promising is it? In that company, Trump is just first among equals in his ignorant stupidity.

When a Bush is perhaps your best option, you know your choices are limited.

[BillyStubbsTears]

When Dick Cheney thinks that the candidate who is dominating your polls is a deranged, Islamophobic, right-wing nut-job, you might just sit down and have a think where you are going.

[Sandy Lane]

When Dick Cheney thinks that the candidate who is dominating your polls is a deranged, Islamophobic, right-wing nut-job, you might just sit down and have a think where you are going.

Yes, Dick Cheney is their secret weapon!  Haha, very ironic that.  But it's perfect.  He speaks to the people who want to, as Trump says, 'bomb the sh*t of out em'.  So if they see HIM coming out against Trump, then they may think twice about supporting him.  Also, the actual candidates can't do that because it would cause Trump to attack them and they hope to scoop up some of those same voters once Trump is out of the way.

As for your polls, you know there will be many more outbursts from Trump and many more polls.  It's too early in the game to start poll watching and getting on here and decrying his lead.  You are also falling victim to his strange fascination, such as it is.

Remember that we are two party system, and with every once of our being we hope and pray that intelligence will outweigh emotions.