Trump

[albie]

Her husband is not included on the Diplomatic List, which means that she cannot lawfully claim immunity.

Not that this will move Trump, as he has no interest in supporting the UK legal process.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Her husband is not included on the Diplomatic List, which means that she cannot lawfully claim immunity.

Not that this will move Trump, as he has no interest in supporting the UK legal process.

If that's true, is there any reason we can't request extradition?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just read a fascinating piece about Nixon's impeachment.

Nixon was as slam-dunk guilty of offences warranting impeachment as anything you could imagine. He was for ed by the Supreme Court to release transcripts of tape recordings which proved he had orchestrated the cover up of the Watergate break in. There were no grey areas.

And yet.

Only 10 of the 17 Republican congressmen on the Judiciary Committe which drafted the articles of impeachment voted against him. And a week before he resigned, only 31% of Republican voters thought he should go.

It's an interesting parallel with today. Another Republican crook in the White House and again he's being covered by his Congressmen, and his voters refuse to hear anything bad said against him.

They are not going to be treated well by history...

[albie]

Glyn,

The info is from Craig Murray:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/jonathan-sacoolas-is-not-and-has-never-been-a-diplomat/

The references to the list are linked in the article.

In answer to your question, we could ask for her return...but I do not expect Trump to comply.
International Law is for others, not the USA.

[silent majority]

Her husband is not included on the Diplomatic List, which means that she cannot lawfully claim immunity.

Not that this will move Trump, as he has no interest in supporting the UK legal process.

That's not right, her husband was on the diplomatic list, which automatically gives her the right to be on the list.

Your argument is whether he was a diplomat or not, which is a different argument.

[Metalmicky]

A new low - if that were possible....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50000646

"Even by President Trump's own remarkable standards, his off-the-cuff remark that the US alliance with the Kurds is of little importance because they were not at Normandy - they did not fight with the US and its allies in World War Two - is extraordinary."

Even by Trumps low standards that is quite remarkable........... the man is a calamity.

[glosterred]

The Kurds may not have been at Normandy, but they did fight during WWII

https://mobile.twitter.com/ric_cole/status/1182613417640824834

[SydneyRover]

Like Al Capone, trump could be jailed over tax and:

''Former US ambassador to Ukraine arrives for testimony in impeachment inquiry

Marie Yovanovitch, the former US ambassador to Ukraine, has arrived on Capitol Hill to testify in the impeachment inquiry against Trump''

[wilts rover]

Her husband is not included on the Diplomatic List, which means that she cannot lawfully claim immunity.

Not that this will move Trump, as he has no interest in supporting the UK legal process.

That's not right, her husband was on the diplomatic list, which automatically gives her the right to be on the list.

Your argument is whether he was a diplomat or not, which is a different argument.

His name does not appear on the Diplomatic List on the UK Government website and it would be suprising if it did. The Diplomatic List gives the names of the staff attached to Embassies and Consulates in the UK whereas this bloke worked at a facility in Northamptonshire. Not a lot of dilpoming required there.

As to what he was doing in Northamptonshire? Craig Murray surmises this is the real reason why his wife won't be extradited. So we don't get to find out.

[Dutch Uncle]

It seems her husband may have been working at RAF Croughton, which wiki says is a USAF Communications centre. There is likely high security classified information there, and most people might well have a high security clearance and diplomatic immunity

[albie]

Dutch,

There is a bit more background on the US site The Daily Beast;
https://www.thedailybeast.com/anne-sacoolas-american-diplomat-wife-fled-england-after-killing-19-year-old-harry-dunn-with-her-car

It seems the UK and the USA have agreed to extend immunity on a mutual basis.
That is not in accordance with the Vienna Convention.

The claim is now that "RAF Croughton" is an annex of the US Embassy.
It is said Sacoolas was driving a vehicle with diplomatic plates.
The US will not want this examined in court, so she has gone awol.
I expect the UK to bluster and do nothing.

The Dunn family may have to travel to the US and try to bring an action in the US Courts.

[Dutch Uncle]

Thanks Albie - sounds like just the sort of place I was thinking about.

Edit: In my last 10 years in the Netherlands I reached a high enough position within an International Organisation to have diplomatic plates on my car. I was told in no uncertain terms that this gave no immunity whatsoever from any traffic incidents, speeding or even parking tickets. In fact the only benefit was to be able to park in a diplomatic area at Schiphol airport.

Just shows how unusual the arrangement in this case is.

[SydneyRover]

Giuliani the best friend trump (and the world) ever had ..............................

Trump-Ukraine: John Bolton 'sounded alarm about Giuliani's actions'

Looks like Giuliani has left a trail of crumbs behind him the width of the Grand Canyon, and we are getting an idea why Bolton became persona non grata.

''Hill said Bolton instructed her to tell the National Security Council’s attorney that Giuliani was acting in concert with White House chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, in a rogue operation with legal implications''

“I am not part of whatever drug deal Rudy and Mulvaney are cooking up,” Bolton instructed Hill to tell the NSC lawyer, according to her testimony''

''She said that Bolton had told her on an earlier occasion: “Giuliani’s a hand grenade who’s going to blow everybody up.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/14/fiona-hill-testimony-trump-impeachment-inquiry

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Trump made some sensible points initially, he has gotten worse and worse as his time has progressed.  I cannot see how anyone would vote for him, it's an open goal for the Dems.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What were the sensible points? I think they passed me by.

He's not changed personality here. He's ALWAYS been a criminal and a moral vacuum. The only difference now is that it's spinning out of control.

[SydneyRover]

''A third Giuliani associate is arrested in New York City

A Florida man wanted in a campaign finance case involving associates of Rudy Giuliani is in federal custody.

federal authorities say they took David Correia into custody Wednesday at Kennedy Airport in New York City''

AND:

''Federal authorities reportedly investigating Giuliani on counterintelligence concerns

Federal authorities investigating ties between Rudy Giuliani and allegedly corrupt Ukrainian figures are reportedly exploring whether those wealthy foreigners tried to exploit their connection to the president’s personal lawyer to gain political influence''

If the associates of Giuliani get their nuts squeezed and rat him out, plus the pressure from being investigated himself and he himself starts to spill his guts I don't see how trump can escape this. They only have to prove conspiracy on any of the charges.

Plus there's more:

ProPublica got their hands on documents that show Donald Trump’s company gave a lender and New York City tax authorities two different set of numbers for two of the company’s Manhattan buildings – 40 Wall Street and the Trump International Hotel and Tower.

The documents show questionable differences in some expense, profit and occupancy figures. For example, the company told lenders that 40 Wall Street was 58.9% leased in 2012 but then rose to 95% a few years later. It told tax officials the building was 81% leased in 2013.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/oct/16/trump-news-today-live-elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-impeachment-latest?page=with:block-5da750a68f08b13ca7c7bd41#block-5da750a68f08b13ca7c7bd41

I think the game show is almost over.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Like I say, every day you think he can't get more disgusting...

Then he invites the parents of Harry Dunn to the White House.

And he's got the woman who killed their son waiting in a f**king side room so that he can introduce them. With the press pack in another room, waiting to be called in to get the photos

Just....an empathy f**king vacuum.

I wonder just how badly his dad treated him.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Like I say, every day you think he can't get more disgusting...

Then he invites the parents of Harry Dunn to the White House.

And he's got the woman who killed their son waiting in a f**king side room so that he can introduce them. With the press pack in another room, waiting to be called in to get the photos

Just....an empathy f**king vacuum.

I wonder just how badly his dad treated him.

Apparently, it was at Boris's suggestion.

They really are two cheeks of the same arse.

[SydneyRover]

It's 5 to midnight on trumps impeachment clock.

''Donald Trump instructed US diplomats to go through his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, to make the Ukrainian president’s access to the White House dependent on launching investigations into Trump’s political opponents, the US ambassador to the EU has testified.

In his opening statement to Congress on Thursday, Gordon Sondland, a wealthy hotelier and Trump donor, sought to distance himself from the president, saying he had been “disappointed” Trump had chosen to conduct an important strategic relationship through his lawyer''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/17/gordon-sondland-testimony-trump-giuliani-ukraine

[SydneyRover]

“John Kelly never said that,” Trump said, according to CNN. “He never anything like that.

“If he would have said that I would have thrown him out of the office. He just wants to come back into the action like everybody else.”

''The White House press secretary, Stephanie Grisham, confirmed Trump’s response: “I worked with John Kelly, and he was totally unequipped to handle the genius of our great President.”''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvfzNl1sLcs

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/26/impeachment-state-official-philip-reeker-donald-trump

[BillyStubbsTears]

He's in BIG trouble after tonight's news folks. His Ambassador to the EU and long-term supporter has just welched on him. Said that he now remembers passing on the message to Ukraine that they wouldn't get military support unless they opened an investigation on Biden as Trump wanted.

That's a key player and a previously huge Trump supporter now saying Trump committed a slam-dunk impeachable act.

The avalanche is starting...

[MachoMadness]

As long as he has his powerful supporters to blindly defend him, I wouldn't be so optimistic. When I say blind, I mean that almost literally as Lindsey Graham is refusing to even read the transcripts. Are there enough genuine, sane voices in the Republican ranks to get it through? I'm not sure.

[BillyStubbsTears]

When it goes, it really will be an avalanche.

The morally repugnant ones like Graham are positioning themselves for crawling out of the aftermath and being able to say "I didn't start the avalanche that brought Trump down."

But the avalanche is coming now...

[SydneyRover]

Trump and the Repugnants have shot themselves in the balls by complaining about closed-door hearings

[SydneyRover]

The stable genius is proven in court to be a liar and fined $2m, and you know I was just about to say 'let's give the guy a break, forgive and forget' 

''Donald Trump fined $2m for misusing charity for political ends

New York judge also signed off on agreement to close the Trump Foundation and distribute $1.7m remaining funds to not-for-profits''

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/07/donald-trump-charity-foundation-misuse-lawsuit

[Sandy Lane]

Public hearings on impeachment re Ukraine are starting next week and now Trump says he doesn’t want them to be public! It should be very interesting. There is such overwhelming evidence of extortion, although they keep calling it quid pro quo. Not sure why.  I would think extortion is easier for ppl to understand.

I’m hoping as public opinion starts to go against him and consequently members of Congress see that, that they will band together to denounce him.  Apparently individually many of them are afraid of him attacking them on Twitter or putting up someone to primary them, so many of them do nothing.  Nice. 

In our recent local elections this year, I was unable to vote for any Republicans just as a carryover from how I feel about them on the national level, which is just total utter disgust.

I wonder if we’ll ever come back from this on the world stage as well as nationally.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sandy, I think the existence of a "quid pro quo" is the legal requirement for this to be considered an impeachable offence.

It is, of course, a slam dunk case. If the Republicans go tribal on this and support Trump, they'll be doing so as a frank, public admission that they out Party above Country. It'll show how far they've slipped since the Nixon impeachment.

[turnbull for england]

And yet the crowd still applaud https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1193552771297005568?s=19

[Sandy Lane]

Sandy, I think the existence of a "quid pro quo" is the legal requirement for this to be considered an impeachable offence.

It is, of course, a slam dunk case. If the Republicans go tribal on this and support Trump, they'll be doing so as a frank, public admission that they out Party above Country. It'll show how far they've slipped since the Nixon impeachment.

Yes, thanks Billy I think you’re right.  Although in the beginning when Trump released the original transcript of his conversation with Zelinski, he said, “I have a favor though”, and this was said to be asking a foreign govt for help looking into a political rival and a quid pro quo wasn’t necessary.  So this would/could be the first article of impeachment.  Then after the career diplomats testified saying they actually heard a qpq, this I believe, becomes the second article of impeachment.

At any rate it’s fascinating, but unfortunately there is a lot at stake for our democracy. Unless more ppl as well as members of the Senate get on board with actually removing him from office, I’m afraid he will be more reckless and lawless particularly related to our foreign policy and specifically Putin and trying to exonerate Russia from our 2016 election interference.

I also hope for your sake that Boris is not elected because the similarities between him and Trump surely will help to upend the EU, which is what Putin is working towards.

God, Putin with his long term goals coming to fruition. If only more people would look at history and see it repeating itself. 

I think the difference with Nixon was the Republican Party is not the same type of party it is today. 

[BillyStubbsTears]

So, Trump had a charity, the Trump Foundation, which raised money for, among other things, armed forces veterans who had fallen in hard times.

He's now admitted, in court documents, that he stole money from that charity and used it to pay his own election expenses in 2016.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisAlbertoLaw/status/1194075883809714176

Come on.

Line up.

Those of you who have piled in to support him, time after time..

Come on. Come and support this f**king obscenity of a man.

We're waiting.

You didn't appear to give a f**k when he separated the babies of immigrants from their parents and put them in concentration camps.

Maybe you can find it in you to search your souls now he's cheating army veterans?