24 Hours in Police Custody - Adam White

[mugnapper]

If you've not watched the C4 documentary and are planning to do so, Look Away Now.

White, an electrician, young dad,  chased 2 scrotes trying to break into his garage to nick his motorbike.
They flee on a (stolen) motorbike and he sets off in pursuit in a Merc 4x4.
At a sharp bend, the bike brakes hard and White runs into the bike, sending the scrotes flying. Both scrotes get serious injuries, one hospitalised for a couple of months.

DPP decides to prosecute White for Dangerous Driving.

White gets 22 months whilst the serial burglars get virtually nothing. (Community Service, banned from driving, driving without insurance etc etc).

I think it was right to prosecute him  as you can't take the law into your own hands. I think had time whilst chasing the scrotes to calm down and think 'What am I gonna do if I catch them? They may have a knife, there's 2 of them, so they may have 2 knives'.

He didn't deliberately aim to knock them off the bike, it was their hard braking that made him run into them.

He's unlikely to offend again.

I'd have given him a suspended sentence and given him a big fine.

What's your thoughts?

[mugnapper]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.leightonbuzzardonline.co.uk/news/crime/24-hours-in-police-custody-gofundme-set-up-for-eggington-man-adam-white-jailed-for-22-months-while-would-be-burglars-avoid-prison-3934852%3famp

Wow, I never thought I'd post a link to the Leighton Buzzard Observer.
£80k raised via crowdfunder

[Filo]

Scrotes got what they deserved, he should have got a token fine and 3 points, they committed  a crime against him they should live with the consequences

[SydneyRover]

did they steal anything?

[mugnapper]

did they steal anything?

He disturbed them as they were breaking in. When they crashed they had bolt cutters, crow bars etc

[SydneyRover]

That's a no then?

Is the news story blaming them for braking too hard? try using that excuse if you shunt someone, oh the vehicle in front braked too hard and I ran into it.

[mugnapper]

Just checked and the maximum penalty for Dangerous Driving is only 2 years.
Causing death by Dangerous Driving has a maximum sentence of 14 years, so Mr White ought to be thankful neither of the thieves died.

[Filo]

That's a no then?

Is the news story blaming them for braking too hard? try using that excuse if you shunt someone, oh the vehicle in front braked too hard and I ran into it.

Stolen motorbike, no insurance, probably not wearing crash helmets, they shouldn’t have been on the road in the first to brake too hard

[SydneyRover]

correct

[mugnapper]

So what sentence would you give him?
Surely no one should be chasing at high speeds down country lanes and through villages?
What if I'd been pushing my daughter in her pram to try get her to sleep as these blokes were having their Grand Theft Auto experience?

What sentence, if any, would you have given Adam White?

[Donnywolf]

It'll end ,  50 / 50 or thereabouts

[normal rules]

The law states people have to the right to use reasonable force to protect their property, themselves and others.
The moment he got in his car to pursue the toe rags, he overstepped the mark. In the laws eyes. I have my own opinion of course. They were attempting to break in. They didn’t. He probably prevented that from happening. So once they fled it was job done. But many want their pound of flesh don’t they? And in many respects I don’t blame them. But it comes with a caveat. Action and reaction.
The toe rags got a bit of what I call summary justice.
My heart goes out to the home owner.
Imo he should not have gone to prison. A community order would have been more appropriate.

[phil old leake]

I agree that he should have been prosecuted on what’s been written.  It would appear to be reckless.

He should have asked for a trial in Bristol where the juries seem to disregard the law and find criminals (alleged) not guilty and make them heroes
It’s a similar situation to catching someone in your house.  You can defend yourself and your family but the moment you decide to go too far and kick sxxt out of them when they are no longer a threat it’s a problem

[mugnapper]

It's difficult isn't it?
I reckon most of us would sympathise with White, he took it too far once they'd run off and the threat was gone.
He should have called the Police and 3 days later when they'd turned up, got a Crime Number and claimed on his Insurance.
Hopefully he'll learn also not to advertise your expensive motorbike on Faceberk and then give your address to a random bloke who says he's going to buy it.
I guess he'll be out within a year on license?

[mugnapper]

https://news.sky.com/story/government-runs-out-of-prison-places-and-has-to-ask-police-for-cells-12758687

And then this is breaking news.

[danumdon]

So basically the law allows you to use force to protect yourself and your property when the situation is live and in motion, as soon as they vacate your premises you have very little right to do anything. The amount of force is very open to interpretation and more than the bare minimum is going to see you prosecuted.

These two individuals are lucky they happen to live in a very liberal country, in certain others they would of been shot and most likely killed.

Some would say that would be far more preferable than the following chase and crash which endangered others not involved.

[normal rules]

https://news.sky.com/story/government-runs-out-of-prison-places-and-has-to-ask-police-for-cells-12758687

And then this is breaking news.

Not for the first time. I recall making some decent dough working cancelled rest days for just this in the mid 2000’s.

Build.
More.
Prisons.

[turnbull for england]

I watched it, what was so infuriating was the way it was almost skewed towards the burglars . Both got form a mile long , gone equipped ( bolt croppers and crow bar) on stolen bike only one with helmet. Both on arrest said no comments all way through. They were that well known coppers even said they would have to check on the blokes house as retribution likely. The bloke who house it was was open all the way through, clearly to his detriment . At trial whatever you feel about his guilt he got 22 month, the two burglars who pleaded guilty as had no choice were spared prison as " their injury's would make prison too hard"  they'd already been caught in a car with false plates before it even got to court.  Seemed clear enough if you know the system you can work it

[SydneyRover]

A magistrate /judge has to take an impassioned view and examine the evidence as presented.

[Colin C No.3]

If you are the victim of a burglary, the best you can hope for is being given a crime number by the police which you can then pass onto your insurers.

Unless someone is seriously injured whilst being burgled in their own home the police do not ‘have the resources’ to investigate further.

‘You can’t take the law into your own hands’.

Unfortunately.

[SydneyRover]

Have just watched the video MN posted in comment #2.

A couple of things, the trial of the would be burglars would have been separate from the trial of the homeowner, the sentences would not and should not have been weighed against each offender (eg the burglars didn't go to jail so we can't jail the homeowner)

The 'scrotes' sentences were affected/discounted by their injuries.

The offenders previous would have been taken into consideration.

The word 'armed' was used in one comment but only 'armed' in relation to tools of burglary nothing more.

Whether they were wearing helmets or not is irrelevant.

They plead guilty.

Either party can consider an appeal.

Consider what the country would be like if everyone took the law into their own hands.

If you are not in court listening to and evaluating evidence it is extremely difficult to make an informed decision about what has occurred.

[danumdon]

If you are the victim of a burglary, the best you can hope for is being given a crime number by the police which you can then pass onto your insurers.

Unless someone is seriously injured whilst being burgled in their own home the police do not ‘have the resources’ to investigate further.

‘You can’t take the law into your own hands’.

Unfortunately.

I'm thinking back there was a case a few years ago where someone did "take the law into their own hands" and attempted to perform a citizens arrest on a burglar in their house, the fact that the accused happened to fall down the stairs in the melee was quoted as "unfortunate"

[danumdon]

Have just watched the video MN posted in comment #2.

A couple of things, the trial of the would be burglars would have been separate from the trial of the homeowner, the sentences would not and should not have been weighed against each offender (eg the burglars didn't go to jail so we can't jail the homeowner)

The 'scrotes' sentences were affected/discounted by their injuries.

The offenders previous would have been taken into consideration.

The word 'armed' was used in one comment but only 'armed' in relation to tools of burglary nothing more.

Whether they were wearing helmets or not is irrelevant.

They plead guilty.

Either party can consider an appeal.

Consider what the country would be like if everyone took the law into their own hands.

If you are not in court listening to and evaluating evidence it is extremely difficult to make an informed decision about what has occurred.

Would this be the same country that threatens to arrest fuel protesters driving across a motorway at slow speed if they continue but allows Stop oil protesters to walk slowly in front of traffic in London?

[phil old leake]

Syd I’ve not seen the programme but I do agree with the main basis of your views on this. 
People cannot just take the law into their own hands. When the threat is no longer there it is not justified to take the law into your own hands
If he was giving chase and the fact they braked made him hit them how close must he have been. I think the judge could have used their common sense. IF  is a decent citizen and I’ve no reason to doubt he is would it. Or have been more sensible to give him some kind of community punishment. Prisons are too full as it is with real scum.  Sentencing him to incarceration benefits no one in my view.  He could have been given the maximum community punishment if there is one knowing that he would complete it

[SydneyRover]

Lots of assumptions there phil

[i_ateallthepies]

The balance of penalties for crime in this country is grossly wrong IMO.  If the police were properly resourced and the penal system focussed on those setting out to break the law then the law abiding public would feel far less inclined to take the law into their own hands as happened in this case.

What is needed in this country is more 'Tough on Crime' Tory government.

[SydneyRover]

And obviously more private jails, locking people up for longer would help solve the housing problem too

[phil old leake]

Syd even when someone tries to agree with you  you try to start an argument

Now come on and continue your point by explaining why there are lots of assumptions

You can put your own twist on everything as usual

[SydneyRover]

Just be yourself phil, I'd prefer honesty than you trying to agree with me.