What goes up must come down is it worth it ???

[Colemans Left Hook]

Midweek i decided Charlton would drop like a stop (got hammered earlier today)- heard they had a lot of injuries about a week ago and are "playing kids" (remember 9pm Boltonic bedtime ) then thought about  how Luton are struggling (1-0 down at the moment) whilst Hull and Millwall have nosebleeds

Couple Charlton Luton  with anchor team Barnsley (as in at the bottom) and i doubt if anyone will give you 6/4 never mind 2/1 on all three promoted teams getting relegated.

Which makes you ask the question is it worth getting promoted ?? to the Champonship


Ironicaly was it a couple of years ago we had "a what goes down must come up" when the 3 relegated teams from the Championship Wigan Blackburn and Rotherham all came straight back up

It's going to get harder and harder to get in the Championship and stay there.

apparently there is hope after all for Charlton as the BBC has just said the Belgian owner and his little grey cells have sold the club. 

[sha66y]

Good post,

a lot of “food for thought”

[Colemans Left Hook]

been watching sky - not bbc now - and according to the commentator chris kamara (who is on song !!) Luton (certainly aren't) aren't even bothering to tackle now 4-0 at half time and surely the game is up for D.M.'s X No.2 ?

5-0 according to BBc

[graingrover]

But I respectfully point out the difference in standing and trustworthiness of the respective owners and our own .

[Bezza]

Anyone would be struggling with Charltons injury list 14 players missing.

[Campsall rover]

Midweek i decided Charlton would drop like a stop (got hammered earlier today)- heard they had a lot of injuries about a week ago and are "playing kids" (remember 9pm Boltonic bedtime ) then thought about  how Luton are struggling (1-0 down at the moment) whilst Hull and Millwall have nosebleeds

Couple Charlton Luton  with anchor team Barnsley (as in at the bottom) and i doubt if anyone will give you 6/4 never mind 2/1 on all three promoted teams getting relegated.

Which makes you ask the question is it worth getting promoted ?? to the Champonship


Ironicaly was it a couple of years ago we had "a what goes down must come up" when the 3 relegated teams from the Championship Wigan Blackburn and Rotherham all came straight back up

It's going to get harder and harder to get in the Championship and stay there.

apparently there is hope after all for Charlton as the BBC has just said the Belgian owner and his little grey cells have sold the club.

You can never say it’s not worth getting promoted. If that is the case what’s the point of having a pyramid.
Agree though it is getting tougher than ever to stay in that league.
Brentford have done it though and no one is going to tell me they are a bigger club than ours.
Yes they have had some considerable investment in their team in recent years and Dean Smith was a fantastic manager for them.
When he was Walsall manager I did hope we would prize him away to become our Manager. Think he would have done so much better than Dickov & Fergie. Well that goes without saying & we would never have got relegated in 2013/14 from the Championship with Dean Smith as manager or from League 1 in 2015/16.
Probably top 14/15 at worst in 2013/14
Any way it’s all hypothetical as it never happened.

[tyke1962]

All about the money isn't it , extremely difficult to compete with some of these clubs to say the least .

You can always be creative and punch above your weight for a single season but ultimately money will eventually get the better of you .

Is it worth going up ?

I think if you take the view that you are going to lose a hell of a lot of games but see an extremely higher standard of football for a season you'll not go far wrong .

Just be realistic , it aint Rovers or Barnsley's fault it's just the way football is now .

[drfchound]

I have said that for a few years now tyke.
Some of our supporters don’t see it that way though.
It will always be difficult for Rovers to stay up if we ever get back to the Championship.

[NickDRFC]

Oh it’s going to be difficult to compete in the Championship? Well we might as well sack it off then and just hope for trips to Gillingham and Rochdale for the rest of our days. In fact why even bother getting up in the morning?

[tyke1962]

I have said that for a few years now tyke.
Some of our supporters don’t see it that way though.
It will always be difficult for Rovers to stay up if we ever get back to the Championship.

When you see Wayne Rooney walking in to Derby County despite the fact they haven't the means to pull off such a signing tells you where we sit in the grand scheme of things .

Aston Villa's wage bill last season to earn a play off place was £70m .

Neither you or me can change the way football's become , I'd love to be able to compete at this level like we once did but I'm realistic enough to know we can't .

All we can do is be the best we can be and to be fair both our clubs do just that , what more can you do ? .

[drfchound]

Oh it’s going to be difficult to compete in the Championship? Well we might as well sack it off then and just hope for trips to Gillingham and Rochdale for the rest of our days. In fact why even bother getting up in the morning?

No need for that type of response nick.
What i said is true.
It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t aim for it though does it.

[tyke1962]

Oh it’s going to be difficult to compete in the Championship? Well we might as well sack it off then and just hope for trips to Gillingham and Rochdale for the rest of our days. In fact why even bother getting up in the morning?

It's an uncomfortable fact but none the less Barnsley , Rovers and Rotherham cannot compete effectively in the championship of today despite the fact we are all more than capable of achieving championship football .

The number of high quality championship footballers we've had at my club would normally suggest we should have cemented a place over the last few years .

Problem is despite finding the talent paying them what they know they can get at other clubs totally kills us .

Connor Hourihane was offered 18k a week to stay at Barnsley , we were 7th in the championship at that time .

Aston Villa offered him 32k a week and were 12 points behind us at the time , it proved a no brainer for Connor .

That's what you are up against , Rovers may well acquire the talent to get up to the championship and do well , trouble is if they do well bigger clubs will come in and flash the cash for your players .

You can't replace Connor Hourihane if your Barnsley Football Club , you simply can't .

[Campsall rover]

Oh it’s going to be difficult to compete in the Championship? Well we might as well sack it off then and just hope for trips to Gillingham and Rochdale for the rest of our days. In fact why even bother getting up in the morning?

No need for that type of response nick.
What i said is true.
It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t aim for it though does it.

Agree with both those posts. Yes Nick we should always aspire to play in a higher league or what’s the point of bothering in the first place and yes hound it is tough to compete at that level for the likes of Rovers.
But i genuinely believe it is possible to sustain Championship football for a club of our size.
If the infrastructure is in place and we can grow our fan base to a level of around 11 to 12.000 which i think is possible over the next 5 years. With all the work that has gone on to attract the younger generation to support the club, this will pay dividends over the the next 5/10 years.
The single most important factor though is having a manager who is able to work on a limited budget and achieve success on the field.
In Darren Moore i believe we have that man in place. The board must make it a priority to keep him at the helm for a very long time.
Darren Moore has undoubtedly bought into Club Doncaster’s ethos and the vision the board have for the club in the long term.
Exciting times ahead. I have always had the belief that if you want to achieve something badly enough then it CAN be achieved.

Onwards & upwards.  Well that’s where I believe DRFC are going. 
Patience please though, it’s a marathon not a sprint.

[drfchound]

Oh it’s going to be difficult to compete in the Championship? Well we might as well sack it off then and just hope for trips to Gillingham and Rochdale for the rest of our days. In fact why even bother getting up in the morning?

No need for that type of response nick.
What i said is true.
It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t aim for it though does it.

Agree with both those posts. Yes Nick we should always aspire to play in a higher league or what’s the point of bothering in the first place and yes hound it is tough to compete at that level for the likes of Rovers.

But i genuinely believe it is possible to sustain Championship football for a club of our size.
If the infrastructure is in place and we can grow our fan base to a level of around 11 to 12.000 which i think is possible over the next 5 years. With all the work that has gone on to attract the younger generation to support the club, this will pay dividends over the the next 5/10 years.
The single most important factor though is having a manager who is able to work on a limited budget and achieve success on the field.
In Darren Moore i believe we have that man in place. The board must make it a priority to keep him at the helm for a very long time.
Darren Moore has undoubtedly bought into Club Doncaster’s ethos and the vision the board have for the club in the long term.
Exciting times ahead. I have always had the belief that if you want to achieve something badly enough then it CAN be achieved.

Onwards & upwards.  Well that’s where I believe DRFC are going. 
Patience please though, it’s a marathon not a sprint.

Hi Campsall.
As one of our glass half full posters I am very surprised that you agreed with a very negative post by nick.

[NickDRFC]

I’m not sure that dismissing the opinion “why bother for promotion to the Championship as chances are we’ll be relegated anyway” really qualifies as negative. My post was probably overly sarcastic but I stand by it.

Of course a club of our size will struggle against teams who have 30,000 fans week in week out, or are still receiving parachute payments, but that’s not a reason to not even bother trying.

[Campsall rover]

Oh it’s going to be difficult to compete in the Championship? Well we might as well sack it off then and just hope for trips to Gillingham and Rochdale for the rest of our days. In fact why even bother getting up in the morning?

No need for that type of response nick.
What i said is true.
It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t aim for it though does it.

Agree with both those posts. Yes Nick we should always aspire to play in a higher league or what’s the point of bothering in the first place and yes hound it is tough to compete at that level for the likes of Rovers.

But i genuinely believe it is possible to sustain Championship football for a club of our size.
If the infrastructure is in place and we can grow our fan base to a level of around 11 to 12.000 which i think is possible over the next 5 years. With all the work that has gone on to attract the younger generation to support the club, this will pay dividends over the the next 5/10 years.
The single most important factor though is having a manager who is able to work on a limited budget and achieve success on the field.
In Darren Moore i believe we have that man in place. The board must make it a priority to keep him at the helm for a very long time.
Darren Moore has undoubtedly bought into Club Doncaster’s ethos and the vision the board have for the club in the long term.
Exciting times ahead. I have always had the belief that if you want to achieve something badly enough then it CAN be achieved.

Onwards & upwards.  Well that’s where I believe DRFC are going. 
Patience please though, it’s a marathon not a sprint.

Hi Campsall.
As one of our glass half full posters I am very surprised that you agreed with a very negative post by nick.

He was not being negative hound though, quite the opposite. He said what I am saying which is you should always aspire to achieve better. That means having the ambition of going up a level.
If you have the attitude it will be too difficult to succeed when you get there then that is a very defeatist, which will guarantee that you won’t get there at all.

[drfchound]

Oh it’s going to be difficult to compete in the Championship? Well we might as well sack it off then and just hope for trips to Gillingham and Rochdale for the rest of our days. In fact why even bother getting up in the morning?

No need for that type of response nick.
What i said is true.
It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t aim for it though does it.

Agree with both those posts. Yes Nick we should always aspire to play in a higher league or what’s the point of bothering in the first place and yes hound it is tough to compete at that level for the likes of Rovers.

But i genuinely believe it is possible to sustain Championship football for a club of our size.
If the infrastructure is in place and we can grow our fan base to a level of around 11 to 12.000 which i think is possible over the next 5 years. With all the work that has gone on to attract the younger generation to support the club, this will pay dividends over the the next 5/10 years.
The single most important factor though is having a manager who is able to work on a limited budget and achieve success on the field.
In Darren Moore i believe we have that man in place. The board must make it a priority to keep him at the helm for a very long time.
Darren Moore has undoubtedly bought into Club Doncaster’s ethos and the vision the board have for the club in the long term.
Exciting times ahead. I have always had the belief that if you want to achieve something badly enough then it CAN be achieved.

Onwards & upwards.  Well that’s where I believe DRFC are going. 
Patience please though, it’s a marathon not a sprint.

Hi Campsall.
As one of our glass half full posters I am very surprised that you agreed with a very negative post by nick.

He was not being negative hound though, quite the opposite. He said what I am saying which is you should always aspire to achieve better. That means having the ambition of going up a level.
If you have the attitude it will be too difficult to succeed when you get there then that is a very defeatist, which will guarantee that you won’t get there at all.

Of course nick was being negative.
How else can you interpret “we might as well sack it off then”.
As he says, he was being overly sarcastic but he certainly wasn’t being positive.

My original post about it being difficult to stay up wasn’t being defeatist, it was being factual and was endorsed by tyke as well.

Anyone worth their salt would want us to be promoted but likewise, anyone who thinks it would be easy to stay up needs their realism expectations looking at.

[tyke1962]

I can find pleasure in league one , last season was one of the most memorable promotions during my 52 years supporting the club .

It was nice to achieve the automatic , the last two from league one were via the play offs .

They will only ever be one automatic promotion in 97 that beats the rest but last season was right up there .

It was up there because it was bloody difficult , the adversity we faced at times was largely unreported .

Woodrow and Moore only played a third of the season together as a striking partnership .

We lost our best midfield player Brad Potts to Preston in January and never replaced him .

We couldn't call off our games during the international break because only our goalkeeper and left back were called up and you need three .

We lost our best defensive midfield player to a broken leg against yourselves at a crucial time of the season .

We lost our assisant to Daniel Stendel who went to Huddersfield in January and had to replace him .

I don't know how we beat off Sunderland and Charlton to get the automatic to be honest , a remarkable achievement in my opinion .

Sometimes you have to look at what you have or are achieving rather than what you aren't is my point .

[Alan Southstand]

The way I look at it, Tyke, is I see L1 as a ‘better’ L2, whereas I see the Championship as a ‘poorer’ Premiership., if you get my drift. The gulf between L2 and L1 is much smaller than the one between L1 and Championship and it’s getting bigger every season.

There is absolutely no doubting, though, watching football in the Championship is a much more enjoyable affair, as even when you lose, more often than not, you come away having watched some excellent football. And it doesn’t always have to come from your team!

Personally, I long for us to get back up there, as it’s where you need to be to truly test yourself, as a team, a club and even as a set of supporters.

[RoversAlias]

I think your description of the leagues is bang on, Alan, and I agree fully with the sentiment in the rest of your post too. I'd love us to get back to the Championship even if we are fighting against the odds every week.

[tyke1962]

The way I look at it, Tyke, is I see L1 as a ‘better’ L2, whereas I see the Championship as a ‘poorer’ Premiership., if you get my drift. The gulf between L2 and L1 is much smaller than the one between L1 and Championship and it’s getting bigger every season.

There is absolutely no doubting, though, watching football in the Championship is a much more enjoyable affair, as even when you lose, more often than not, you come away having watched some excellent football. And it doesn’t always have to come from your team!

Personally, I long for us to get back up there, as it’s where you need to be to truly test yourself, as a team, a club and even as a set of supporters.

Your right of course you need to test yourselves at the highest level you can realistically achieve .

There's nothing wrong with that , what's this all about if you don't ? .

The living proof from this tyke is that my club have brought in five players that have cost us over a million quid a piece this summer .

Yet we are rock bottom of the league with two wins all season .

Seriously what more can we do ?

With all due respect do you envisage Rovers spending that kind of money if you are promoted ?

The Millers record transfer fee is 500k , it's actually amazing they compete effectively in league one at all .

The fact is to be a self sustainable club in the championship is impossible , we need bank rolling like the rest of em enjoy .

However the championship will eventually come more towards our clubs , I'm sure of it , it's a complete capitalist model at the moment , there will be a bust , there always is .

[Campsall rover]

The way I look at it, Tyke, is I see L1 as a ‘better’ L2, whereas I see the Championship as a ‘poorer’ Premiership., if you get my drift. The gulf between L2 and L1 is much smaller than the one between L1 and Championship and it’s getting bigger every season.

There is absolutely no doubting, though, watching football in the Championship is a much more enjoyable affair, as even when you lose, more often than not, you come away having watched some excellent football. And it doesn’t always have to come from your team!

Personally, I long for us to get back up there, as it’s where you need to be to truly test yourself, as a team, a club and even as a set of supporters.

Can’t disagree with that summary Alan.

[Campsall rover]

Oh it’s going to be difficult to compete in the Championship? Well we might as well sack it off then and just hope for trips to Gillingham and Rochdale for the rest of our days. In fact why even bother getting up in the morning?

No need for that type of response nick.
What i said is true.
It doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t aim for it though does it.

Agree with both those posts. Yes Nick we should always aspire to play in a higher league or what’s the point of bothering in the first place and yes hound it is tough to compete at that level for the likes of Rovers.

But i genuinely believe it is possible to sustain Championship football for a club of our size.
If the infrastructure is in place and we can grow our fan base to a level of around 11 to 12.000 which i think is possible over the next 5 years. With all the work that has gone on to attract the younger generation to support the club, this will pay dividends over the the next 5/10 years.
The single most important factor though is having a manager who is able to work on a limited budget and achieve success on the field.
In Darren Moore i believe we have that man in place. The board must make it a priority to keep him at the helm for a very long time.
Darren Moore has undoubtedly bought into Club Doncaster’s ethos and the vision the board have for the club in the long term.
Exciting times ahead. I have always had the belief that if you want to achieve something badly enough then it CAN be achieved.

Onwards & upwards.  Well that’s where I believe DRFC are going. 
Patience please though, it’s a marathon not a sprint.

Hi Campsall.
As one of our glass half full posters I am very surprised that you agreed with a very negative post by nick.

He was not being negative hound though, quite the opposite. He said what I am saying which is you should always aspire to achieve better. That means having the ambition of going up a level.
If you have the attitude it will be too difficult to succeed when you get there then that is a very defeatist, which will guarantee that you won’t get there at all.

Of course nick was being negative.
How else can you interpret “we might as well sack it off then”.
As he says, he was being overly sarcastic but he certainly wasn’t being positive.

My original post about it being difficult to stay up wasn’t being defeatist, it was being factual and was endorsed by tyke as well.

Anyone worth their salt would want us to be promoted but likewise, anyone who thinks it would be easy to stay up needs their realism expectations looking at.

Ok hound, Nick was being positive by being sarcastic which in your opinion came across as being negative,
I wasn’t suggesting you personally were being defeatist hound just the original post on this saying “it is not worth bothering going up” was a negative attitude.
I am quite sure you would love to see us playing Championship football week in week out, year in year out.
Yes you are quite right in suggesting it is getting more and more difficult to sustain our place in the 2nd tier.
Not disagreeing at all.
It’s just my opinion that it’s not impossible and if this board seriously want it to happen which I believe they do then it can happen and we can establish ourselves in that league in the same way Brentford have done.
Yes maybe i have rose tinted specs on or maybe i am just losing my marbles. What i do know is as soon as you lose ambition & stop setting targets to improve then you are going to go backwards very quickly indeed.

Doncaster Rovers have the potential to be an established Championship Club. Yes we have quite a lot to do to achieve that status but no one is going to tell me it can’t be achieved. There is no such word as can’t.

[Campsall rover]

The way I look at it, Tyke, is I see L1 as a ‘better’ L2, whereas I see the Championship as a ‘poorer’ Premiership., if you get my drift. The gulf between L2 and L1 is much smaller than the one between L1 and Championship and it’s getting bigger every season.

There is absolutely no doubting, though, watching football in the Championship is a much more enjoyable affair, as even when you lose, more often than not, you come away having watched some excellent football. And it doesn’t always have to come from your team!

Personally, I long for us to get back up there, as it’s where you need to be to truly test yourself, as a team, a club and even as a set of supporters.

Your right of course you need to test yourselves at the highest level you can realistically achieve .

There's nothing wrong with that , what's this all about if you don't ? .

The living proof from this tyke is that my club have brought in five players that have cost us over a million quid a piece this summer .

Yet we are rock bottom of the league with two wins all season .

Seriously what more can we do ?

With all due respect do you envisage Rovers spending that kind of money if you are promoted ?

The Millers record transfer fee is 500k , it's actually amazing they compete effectively in league one at all .

The fact is to be a self sustainable club in the championship is impossible , we need bank rolling like the rest of em enjoy .

However the championship will eventually come more towards our clubs , I'm sure of it , it's a complete capitalist model at the moment , there will be a bust , there always is .

Tyke you say you have bought 5 players all for 1 million or more. If that is the case ( which to be honest i did not realise that ) then it would seem one of two things that has gone badly wrong so far this season.

1) The recruitment you made was poor and the players are not up to the standard required and you have wasted 5 million quid.
2) The manager is not good enough and has simply failed to get the best out of the players at his disposal.

Personally looking in from the outside i would think your team is lacking 2/3 established Championship players, older heads to help the younger talent you have.
The only game i have seen is the home game with Brentford which was on TV played on a very wet pitch when quite frankly your defence was non existent.

Think basically selling some of your older players in the summer was a disaster waiting to happen.
In the Championship you need the right balance of experience and youth. Not sure you have got that.

Clubs of a similar size to yours have recruited much better, Preston, Millwall, Brentford, all established championship clubs with ave gates between 10.500 and 14,500  None of those 3 clubs will have spent silly money this summer.
Quality recruitment within the restraints of an affordable budget is what is needed. And the right manager.
Not sure you have done either of those things Tyke.

It’s a shame because you could achieve what all those other clubs mentioned have.
Preston in fact could be top 6 this season.

[tyke1962]

The way I look at it, Tyke, is I see L1 as a ‘better’ L2, whereas I see the Championship as a ‘poorer’ Premiership., if you get my drift. The gulf between L2 and L1 is much smaller than the one between L1 and Championship and it’s getting bigger every season.

There is absolutely no doubting, though, watching football in the Championship is a much more enjoyable affair, as even when you lose, more often than not, you come away having watched some excellent football. And it doesn’t always have to come from your team!

Personally, I long for us to get back up there, as it’s where you need to be to truly test yourself, as a team, a club and even as a set of supporters.

Your right of course you need to test yourselves at the highest level you can realistically achieve .

There's nothing wrong with that , what's this all about if you don't ? .

The living proof from this tyke is that my club have brought in five players that have cost us over a million quid a piece this summer .

Yet we are rock bottom of the league with two wins all season .

Seriously what more can we do ?

With all due respect do you envisage Rovers spending that kind of money if you are promoted ?

The Millers record transfer fee is 500k , it's actually amazing they compete effectively in league one at all .

The fact is to be a self sustainable club in the championship is impossible , we need bank rolling like the rest of em enjoy .

However the championship will eventually come more towards our clubs , I'm sure of it , it's a complete capitalist model at the moment , there will be a bust , there always is .

Tyke you say you have bought 5 players all for 1 million or more. If that is the case ( which to be honest i did not realise that ) then it would seem one of two things that has gone badly wrong so far this season.

1) The recruitment you made was poor and the players are not up to the standard required and you have wasted 5 million quid.
2) The manager is not good enough and has simply failed to get the best out of the players at his disposal.

Personally looking in from the outside i would think your team is lacking 2/3 established Championship players, older heads to help the younger talent you have.
The only game i have seen is the home game with Brentford which was on TV played on a very wet pitch when quite frankly your defence was non existent.

Think basically selling some of your older players in the summer was a disaster waiting to happen.
In the Championship you need the right balance of experience and youth. Not sure you have got that.

Clubs of a similar size to yours have recruited much better, Preston, Millwall, Brentford, all established championship clubs with ave gates between 10.500 and 14,500  None of those 3 clubs will have spent silly money this summer.
Quality recruitment within the restraints of an affordable budget is what is needed. And the right manager.
Not sure you have done either of those things Tyke.

It’s a shame because you could achieve what all those other clubs mentioned have.
Preston in fact could be top 6 this season.

The clubs policy is that we only sign players under 24 years of age , we don't now let contracts run down , with 12 months left on deals the players either sign an extension or they are immediately sold .

The under 24 policy is to provide the best possible sell on fee we can achieve , the club is totally self sustainable , nobody funds the club and recruiting players of that age means we can pay them what we have within our budget .

Ethan Pinnock and Liam Lindsay would not sign extensions , Lindsay wouldn't even discuss a new deal , both were offered improved deals within our budget .

Kieffer Moore was a different kettle of fish , he had two and a half years left on his deal however having sustained a near career head injury in February I believe he re-evaluated his career and wanted to improve his financial position , Wigan offered him 18k a week and we let him go , I believe 10k a week is our level and nobody is on more than that .

I believe Preston and Brentford have received massive funding to get them established in the championship , they pay their players significantly more money than we do  , I believe the Brentford owners put in £60m during his tenure so far , Millwall have some worrying debts I believe , none of the clubs you mention could be classed as self sustainable .

Our anger with our owners is they haven't put a single pound in to the club , we don't expect them to fund our saturday entertainment out of their own pockets but there's nothing to stop them putting in a few million in shirt advertising , sponsorship of the ground etc etc and meeting us half way .

It's also emerged they took out loans to purchase the club and are paying back the installments through the sale of players so not every pound we make goes back in to the squad , once the loans are paid the club will have cost them absolutely nothing .

The recruitment has been poor for this campaign but the policy is so rigid the experience we badly need won't happen , the club has to pay for itself and the loan installments come first .

Under this policy at this level it's practically impossible to sustain championship football .

[Campsall rover]

The way I look at it, Tyke, is I see L1 as a ‘better’ L2, whereas I see the Championship as a ‘poorer’ Premiership., if you get my drift. The gulf between L2 and L1 is much smaller than the one between L1 and Championship and it’s getting bigger every season.

There is absolutely no doubting, though, watching football in the Championship is a much more enjoyable affair, as even when you lose, more often than not, you come away having watched some excellent football. And it doesn’t always have to come from your team!

Personally, I long for us to get back up there, as it’s where you need to be to truly test yourself, as a team, a club and even as a set of supporters.

Your right of course you need to test yourselves at the highest level you can realistically achieve .

There's nothing wrong with that , what's this all about if you don't ? .

The living proof from this tyke is that my club have brought in five players that have cost us over a million quid a piece this summer .

Yet we are rock bottom of the league with two wins all season .

Seriously what more can we do ?

With all due respect do you envisage Rovers spending that kind of money if you are promoted ?

The Millers record transfer fee is 500k , it's actually amazing they compete effectively in league one at all .

The fact is to be a self sustainable club in the championship is impossible , we need bank rolling like the rest of em enjoy .

However the championship will eventually come more towards our clubs , I'm sure of it , it's a complete capitalist model at the moment , there will be a bust , there always is .

Tyke you say you have bought 5 players all for 1 million or more. If that is the case ( which to be honest i did not realise that ) then it would seem one of two things that has gone badly wrong so far this season.

1) The recruitment you made was poor and the players are not up to the standard required and you have wasted 5 million quid.
2) The manager is not good enough and has simply failed to get the best out of the players at his disposal.

Personally looking in from the outside i would think your team is lacking 2/3 established Championship players, older heads to help the younger talent you have.
The only game i have seen is the home game with Brentford which was on TV played on a very wet pitch when quite frankly your defence was non existent.

Think basically selling some of your older players in the summer was a disaster waiting to happen.
In the Championship you need the right balance of experience and youth. Not sure you have got that.

Clubs of a similar size to yours have recruited much better, Preston, Millwall, Brentford, all established championship clubs with ave gates between 10.500 and 14,500  None of those 3 clubs will have spent silly money this summer.
Quality recruitment within the restraints of an affordable budget is what is needed. And the right manager.
Not sure you have done either of those things Tyke.

It’s a shame because you could achieve what all those other clubs mentioned have.
Preston in fact could be top 6 this season.

The clubs policy is that we only sign players under 24 years of age , we don't now let contracts run down , with 12 months left on deals the players either sign an extension or they are immediately sold .

The under 24 policy is to provide the best possible sell on fee we can achieve , the club is totally self sustainable , nobody funds the club and recruiting players of that age means we can pay them what we have within our budget .

Ethan Pinnock and Liam Lindsay would not sign extensions , Lindsay wouldn't even discuss a new deal , both were offered improved deals within our budget .

Kieffer Moore was a different kettle of fish , he had two and a half years left on his deal however having sustained a near career head injury in February I believe he re-evaluated his career and wanted to improve his financial position , Wigan offered him 18k a week and we let him go , I believe 10k a week is our level and nobody is on more than that .

I believe Preston and Brentford have received massive funding to get them established in the championship , they pay their players significantly more money than we do  , I believe the Brentford owners put in £60m during his tenure so far , Millwall have some worrying debts I believe , none of the clubs you mention could be classed as self sustainable .

Our anger with our owners is they haven't put a single pound in to the club , we don't expect them to fund our saturday entertainment out of their own pockets but there's nothing to stop them putting in a few million in shirt advertising , sponsorship of the ground etc etc and meeting us half way .

It's also emerged they took out loans to purchase the club and are paying back the installments through the sale of players so not every pound we make goes back in to the squad , once the loans are paid the club will have cost them absolutely nothing .

The recruitment has been poor for this campaign but the policy is so rigid the experience we badly need won't happen , the club has to pay for itself and the loan installments come first .

Under this policy at this level it's practically impossible to sustain championship football .

Thanks for that summary Tyke. Just makes me realise how lucky we as a club to have the owners we have.
When we get to the Championship next time i think we will be better placed financially than many clubs in the 2nd tier are at present.
How on earth can clubs like Wigan pay salaries of 18.000 a week. They average just over 10.000 gates this season. What happens when the owners stop funding these extortionate salaries.
It’s not sustainable even with the Sky money which is around 5 million a year at that level.

Of course clubs who pay wages within sensible parameters are currently at a disadvantage but eventually the bubble will burst and 10/15 clubs will be on the brink. More Bolton Wanderers & Bury’s looms on the horizon i fear.
When that happens the EFL will have to set out a much more ridged and equal salary cap on all clubs.
It has to happen eventually, the current situation cannot be sustainable in the long term.

Good luck Tyke for the rest of the season but i fear you may have too much to do to stay up, but you never know. We only had only 18 points from 24 games in 2008/09 and finished 14th.
All is not lost yet, not by a long way.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I think there needs to be and will be a review of Financial Fair Play rules. The playing field is certainly not level when clubs are using or abusing the parachute payment system to take even bigger financial risks rather than cushion the blow of relegation as it was intended.

We know of clubs who are under investigation of breaking FFP rules and I'm sure there are others who are circumventing the rules in clever or crafty ways.

It wouldn't take much to tweak the rules to reduce to % of turnover that can be spent on playing budgets, plus outlawing some streams of income such as stadium sales etc.

Can you imagine what would happen if parachute payments were scrapped? It would change the face of football completely.

[Campsall rover]

I think there needs to be and will be a review of Financial Fair Play rules. The playing field is certainly not level when clubs are using or abusing the parachute payment system to take even bigger financial risks rather than cushion the blow of relegation as it was intended.

We know of clubs who are under investigation of breaking FFP rules and I'm sure there are others who are circumventing the rules in clever or crafty ways.

It wouldn't take much to tweak the rules to reduce to % of turnover that can be spent on playing budgets, plus outlawing some streams of income such as stadium sales etc.

Can you imagine what would happen if parachute payments were scrapped? It would change the face of football completely.

Yes DBR it would be so much more of a level playing field without the parachute payments and it is without question so many clubs are cheating the system of FFP rules at the present time.
What we need is a serious overhaul of the way things at present are allowed to operate.
Seems to me we need a total overhaul of the EFL  Are they at the current time fit for purpose?

 

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I think there needs to be and will be a review of Financial Fair Play rules. The playing field is certainly not level when clubs are using or abusing the parachute payment system to take even bigger financial risks rather than cushion the blow of relegation as it was intended.

We know of clubs who are under investigation of breaking FFP rules and I'm sure there are others who are circumventing the rules in clever or crafty ways.

It wouldn't take much to tweak the rules to reduce to % of turnover that can be spent on playing budgets, plus outlawing some streams of income such as stadium sales etc.

Can you imagine what would happen if parachute payments were scrapped? It would change the face of football completely.

Yes DBR it would be so much more of a level playing field without the parachute payments and it is without question so many clubs are cheating the system of FFP rules at the present time.
What we need is a serious overhaul of the way things at present are allowed to operate.
Seems to me we need a total overhaul of the EFL  Are they at the current time fit for purpose?

 

That's a good question but the money men are usually a step ahead of the regulations and the authorities take a while to catch up and close off the loopholes.

Whilst there is money to be made out of servicing massive loans, clubs will continue to be run on a financial knife edge. As Tyke says, their owners will not be financing out of their own pocket but you can bet they are being rewarded handsomely out of the loan repayments for footing the risk in arrangement/consultancy fees etc. Their objective is to make sure the clubs income including transfers fees, cover the loan repayments. Same with many other clubs including our red rose friends Bolton who have to service the £40m loan repayments (I think it was somewhere around £26m they needed to clear their debts) which leaves them with £14m left (not sure over how long the term of loans are like) Whilst their 4 money men/women are being lauded as their saviours you can bet they are making a mint out of Bolton Wanderers for arranging the loans. Once it's gone, it's gone and you probably won't see them for dust if Bolton don't get back to at least Championship level sometime soon.

[Campsall rover]

I think there needs to be and will be a review of Financial Fair Play rules. The playing field is certainly not level when clubs are using or abusing the parachute payment system to take even bigger financial risks rather than cushion the blow of relegation as it was intended.

We know of clubs who are under investigation of breaking FFP rules and I'm sure there are others who are circumventing the rules in clever or crafty ways.

It wouldn't take much to tweak the rules to reduce to % of turnover that can be spent on playing budgets, plus outlawing some streams of income such as stadium sales etc.

Can you imagine what would happen if parachute payments were scrapped? It would change the face of football completely.

Yes DBR it would be so much more of a level playing field without the parachute payments and it is without question so many clubs are cheating the system of FFP rules at the present time.
What we need is a serious overhaul of the way things at present are allowed to operate.
Seems to me we need a total overhaul of the EFL  Are they at the current time fit for purpose?

 

That's a good question but the money men are usually a step ahead of the regulations and the authorities take a while to catch up and close off the loopholes.

Whilst there is money to be made out of servicing massive loans, clubs will continue to be run on a financial knife edge. As Tyke says, their owners will not be financing out of their own pocket but you can bet they are being rewarded handsomely out of the loan repayments for footing the risk in arrangement/consultancy fees etc. Their objective is to make sure the clubs income including transfers fees, cover the loan repayments. Same with many other clubs including our red rose friends Bolton who have to service the £40m loan repayments (I think it was somewhere around £26m they needed to clear their debts) which leaves them with £14m left (not sure over how long the term of loans are like) Whilst their 4 money men/women are being lauded as their saviours you can bet they are making a mint out of Bolton Wanderers for arranging the loans. Once it's gone, it's gone and you probably won't see them for dust if Bolton don't get back to at least Championship level sometime soon.

Exactly DBR disappear into the dust they will.
It’s all short term planning with a greed motive behind it. Do they really care about the club and the community the club represents.
No they don’t. 

Yes our owners do. They have a long term strategy with the club and community at the forefront.