Same old transfer story

[Chris Black come back]

It’s tough really, as whatever way we turn we seem to be getting it wrong. Moore and his inability to get a striker in all window and us then relying on Kwame and Bingham. Or this summer window doing all our business very early and basically none of them working out, and then making a real mess of getting a striker in at the end. January is always far tougher but this is going to be immensely difficult with being in a holding pattern for loans, coupled with our dire position not being a particularly attractive offer for decent players to join us permanently. I fear expectations have been raised above what is deliverable this window. Realistically I think we are going to struggle to get in what we need.

[since-1969]

I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't SM say in another thread we had already agreed to bring four players in? Two on loan and two permanent?
If they had already been agreed, the transfer window has been open for four full days. Is that not long enough for them to be here already?

McSheffrey has stated that some of those players aren’t available until later in the window

it's a worry thou as later on other teams become desperate for players and end up paying more than we will, or the player ends up choosing somewhere else, same as will grigg situation

Hence why McSheffrey has said the second option rather than the first might be what we have to go for

you might be right we will find out in the next 2 days

If your second option is so much worse than your 1st they shouldn't be on the list! Given where were at it'd be very irritating to wait to the death to do anything

McSheffrey will have to careful if a player seems to keen… it would put me off !

[dickos1]

The last 3 managers have struggled to get the players in, which identifies the problem isn’t the manager.
It’s not the recruitment guy as he’s only just come on board, it leaves Baldwin and blunt.
Whoever is in charge of getting the signings done is clearly not very good at this role

[DonnyOsmond]

The last 3 managers have struggled to get the players in, which identifies the problem isn’t the manager.
It’s not the recruitment guy as he’s only just come on board, it leaves Baldwin and blunt.
Whoever is in charge of getting the signings done is clearly not very good at this role

Getting them over the line is the hardest part.

[Batleyred]

The last 3 managers have struggled to get the players in, which identifies the problem isn’t the manager.
It’s not the recruitment guy as he’s only just come on board, it leaves Baldwin and blunt.
Whoever is in charge of getting the signings done is clearly not very good at this role

Agree with all that. I’m positive but something sure isn’t right in some areas.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

As said in another thread, Rowe, Close, Knoyle, Hiwula, Williams all done relatively early in the last window. How did they happen?

[Jonathan]

The last 3 managers have struggled to get the players in, which identifies the problem isn’t the manager.
It’s not the recruitment guy as he’s only just come on board, it leaves Baldwin and blunt.
Whoever is in charge of getting the signings done is clearly not very good at this role

This. I don’t think it’s a case of the money not being made available. I think it’s an apathy bordering on ignorance when it comes to running the football side of the business on behalf of Terry Bramall.

It’s been explained that Gavin Baldwin’s role centres mainly around the commercial activity, and I believe he does an excellent job with it. That leaves David Blunt. Whatever qualities he does bring, leading on transfer activity certainly isn’t one of them. The fact they don’t appear to have even looked at this since the summer, let alone engage some additional expertise on the football side, is arrogant bordering on negligent.

I believe SM provided the information around the 4 deals lined up in good faith. But there is a real lack of drive in the club to go out and make it happen.

When was the last time we brought in a player that was contracted to a club that really wanted to keep him? Genuine question.

[DonnyOsmond]

The last 3 managers have struggled to get the players in, which identifies the problem isn’t the manager.
It’s not the recruitment guy as he’s only just come on board, it leaves Baldwin and blunt.
Whoever is in charge of getting the signings done is clearly not very good at this role

This. I don’t think it’s a case of the money not being made available. I think it’s an apathy bordering on ignorance when it comes to running the football side of the business on behalf of Terry Bramall.

It’s been explained that Gavin Baldwin’s role centres mainly around the commercial activity, and I believe he does an excellent job with it. That leaves David Blunt. Whatever qualities he does bring, leading on transfer activity certainly isn’t one of them. The fact they don’t appear to have even looked at this since the summer, let alone engage some additional expertise on the football side, is arrogant bordering on negligent.

I believe SM provided the information around the 4 deals lined up in good faith. But there is a real lack of drive in the club to go out and make it happen.

When was the last time we brought in a player that was contracted to a club that really wanted to keep him? Genuine question.

There is players who aren't contracted who their clubs want to keep such as Knoyle but to answer your question I believe it'll be Okenabirhie, before that maybe Mark Duffy then further back Kyle Bennett.

[Jonathan]

The last 3 managers have struggled to get the players in, which identifies the problem isn’t the manager.
It’s not the recruitment guy as he’s only just come on board, it leaves Baldwin and blunt.
Whoever is in charge of getting the signings done is clearly not very good at this role

This. I don’t think it’s a case of the money not being made available. I think it’s an apathy bordering on ignorance when it comes to running the football side of the business on behalf of Terry Bramall.

It’s been explained that Gavin Baldwin’s role centres mainly around the commercial activity, and I believe he does an excellent job with it. That leaves David Blunt. Whatever qualities he does bring, leading on transfer activity certainly isn’t one of them. The fact they don’t appear to have even looked at this since the summer, let alone engage some additional expertise on the football side, is arrogant bordering on negligent.

I believe SM provided the information around the 4 deals lined up in good faith. But there is a real lack of drive in the club to go out and make it happen.

When was the last time we brought in a player that was contracted to a club that really wanted to keep him? Genuine question.

There is players who aren't contracted who their clubs want to keep such as Knoyle but to answer your question I believe it'll be Okenabirhie, before that maybe Mark Duffy then further back Kyle Bennett.

Shrewsbury had stopped playing Fej some time before we signed him I think. Kyle Bennett a good shout. I was thinking James Hayter but looks like we’ve had a couple since then.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Things have changed alot in football since the Bosman ruling. The market has changed and more recently, we've not been in a position to be a predatory club.

Given the sheer number of players who can walk for free then it's the exception rather than the rule for many clubs at our level to pay fees for players.

Also Jonathan, whether clubs were keen to keep or fans keen to keep might be a different answer.

What about Seaman?

You could also include Halliday, Knoyle, Taylor, and a longer list where the clubs would rather have held on to them but they were out of contract and out of their control.

I always remember Penneys quote "Why pay a fee when we can get better for free!"

[DonnyOsmond]

Things have changed alot in football since the Bosman ruling. The market has changed and more recently, we've not been in a position to be a predatory club.

Given the sheer number of players who can walk for free then it's the exception rather than the rule for many clubs at our level to pay fees for players.

Also Jonathan, whether clubs were keen to keep or fans keen to keep might be a different answer.

What about Seaman?

You could also include Halliday, Knoyle, Taylor, and a longer list where the clubs would rather have held on to them but they were out of contract and out of their control.

We got Seaman as a free from Bournemouth.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Things have changed alot in football since the Bosman ruling. The market has changed and more recently, we've not been in a position to be a predatory club.

Given the sheer number of players who can walk for free then it's the exception rather than the rule for many clubs at our level to pay fees for players.

Also Jonathan, whether clubs were keen to keep or fans keen to keep might be a different answer.

What about Seaman?

You could also include Halliday, Knoyle, Taylor, and a longer list where the clubs would rather have held on to them but they were out of contract and out of their control.

We got Seaman as a free from Bournemouth.

Good business then. Soz, I was thinking he came from non league.

[DonnyOsmond]

Scunthorpe have made a few contracted signings from lower clubs that have been starters in the last couple of seasons.

[since-1969]

The last 3 managers have struggled to get the players in, which identifies the problem isn’t the manager.
It’s not the recruitment guy as he’s only just come on board, it leaves Baldwin and blunt.
Whoever is in charge of getting the signings done is clearly not very good at this role

Getting them over the line is the hardest part.

ODrisscoll didn’t have much trouble . Wellens , Stock , Mills, Sharpe etc … because he was backed , unlike recent managers who have to shake the barrel to see what’s left inside !!

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The last 3 managers have struggled to get the players in, which identifies the problem isn’t the manager.
It’s not the recruitment guy as he’s only just come on board, it leaves Baldwin and blunt.
Whoever is in charge of getting the signings done is clearly not very good at this role

Getting them over the line is the hardest part.

ODrisscoll didn’t have much trouble . Wellens , Stock , Mills, Sharpe etc … because he was backed , unlike recent managers who have shake the barrel to soo what’s left inside !!

Backed by whom? The reality is, we can't spend money we haven't got whether we like it or not.

[ravenrover]

And we all know how that ended

[sedwardsdrfc]

It's not the backing thats the problem as Dickos and Jonathan said it seems to be the will to get things done. You can imagine when JR was chairman it wasn't just the charisma or money that made things happen. Deal making needs you to be on the phone at all hours arm twisting and generally bullshiting. You have to have genuine passion for it to commit that time to "get things over the line".

Does our current chairman have that? is this just a job for him. You can understand if it's just a job going the extra miles taking calls from agents at midnight etc wouldn't be something you'd do.

This is pure conjecture i'm not suggesting its the case but it could be part of the problem. 

[dickos1]

As said in another thread, Rowe, Close, Knoyle, Hiwula, Williams all done relatively early in the last window. How did they happen?

It’s that the extent of the argument for good recruitment then I don’t need to say anything else.

Hiwulu was relatively late in the window, the others looked like a decent start but it wasn’t a start it ended up being the end.

Ever since the day Marquis left the building we’ve constantly been told mis truths about players that are lined up, money we will spend etc etc
Ending up with players like Bingham, Thomas, dodoo, Bogle, Williams just shows how poor we are at recruiting, we leave it too late and then panic and sign anything that’s available.
They’ve had 4 months to get players lined up, other clubs in a much less serious state than us have managed it yet we’re going into possibly our biggest game of the season with an opportunity to get 4 or 5 players in for it and we’ve signed nobody, it really is a shambles.

All the talk from gavin over the last month, regarding significant funds and having players lined up for the new manager, just needing them signed off, he’s just embarrassed himself.
It’s all the same words that are said each window and it’s looking like the same outcome, maybe if we’d appointed the new manager quicker and not messed about for almost 2 months we wouldve been in a much better place now for recruitment, which myself and others identified at the time,
It’s a farce

[ian1980]

As said in another thread, Rowe, Close, Knoyle, Hiwula, Williams all done relatively early in the last window. How did they happen?

It’s that the extent of the argument for good recruitment then I don’t need to say anything else.

Hiwulu was relatively late in the window, the others looked like a decent start but it wasn’t a start it ended up being the end.

Ever since the day Marquis left the building we’ve constantly been told mis truths about players that are lined up, money we will spend etc etc
Ending up with players like Bingham, Thomas, dodoo, Bogle, Williams just shows how poor we are at recruiting, we leave it too late and then panic and sign anything that’s available.
They’ve had 4 months to get players lined up, other clubs in a much less serious state than us have managed it yet we’re going into possibly our biggest game of the season with an opportunity to get 4 or 5 players in for it and we’ve signed nobody, it really is a shambles.

All the talk from gavin over the last month, regarding significant funds and having players lined up for the new manager, just needing them signed off, he’s just embarrassed himself.
It’s all the same words that are said each window and it’s looking like the same outcome, maybe if we’d appointed the new manager quicker and not messed about for almost 2 months we wouldve been in a much better place now for recruitment, which myself and others identified at the time,
It’s a farce

Agree with all of that but also think of it from the current players point of view.

DB and GB went into Cantley Park and met the players to tell them about the significant funds and additional players coming in to strengthen the squad. And yet here we are, having to use the same tiny squad going into what is a very important game in our chance of survival. Some of them probably being thrown in with knocks/niggles or whatever.

The lethargic pace from the club in everything they do is having a massive (and possibly very damaging) effect of the team.

[roversdude]

Dickos I agree with all of that other than the Bogle bit - Moore really wanted him and the board backed him. Hiwula personally I thought was a great signing when it happened but for whatever reason it’s not working out at the moment, hopefully he can turn it round.

[rtid88]

We were incredibly fortunate to have John Ryan as our Chairman for the period we did.
You only have to read Copps book to realise how much of a presence he was and a reason we were able to sign the players we did when he was here.
There certainly isn't anyone with his kind of charisma at the club anymore but also as already pointed out we don't have anywhere near the same level of money available either.

[silent majority]

The lethargic pace currently is down to one issue - Covid.

We have agreements in place, but because of Covid clubs are reluctant to release straight away in case those players are needed. That, and the fact that the club are allowing GM to wait for his strongest picks rather than signing the first one that is available.

You should all hear something very soon.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

As said in another thread, Rowe, Close, Knoyle, Hiwula, Williams all done relatively early in the last window. How did they happen?

It’s that the extent of the argument for good recruitment then I don’t need to say anything else.

Hiwulu was relatively late in the window, the others looked like a decent start but it wasn’t a start it ended up being the end.

Ever since the day Marquis left the building we’ve constantly been told mis truths about players that are lined up, money we will spend etc etc
Ending up with players like Bingham, Thomas, dodoo, Bogle, Williams just shows how poor we are at recruiting, we leave it too late and then panic and sign anything that’s available.
They’ve had 4 months to get players lined up, other clubs in a much less serious state than us have managed it yet we’re going into possibly our biggest game of the season with an opportunity to get 4 or 5 players in for it and we’ve signed nobody, it really is a shambles.

All the talk from gavin over the last month, regarding significant funds and having players lined up for the new manager, just needing them signed off, he’s just embarrassed himself.
It’s all the same words that are said each window and it’s looking like the same outcome, maybe if we’d appointed the new manager quicker and not messed about for almost 2 months we wouldve been in a much better place now for recruitment, which myself and others identified at the time,
It’s a farce

It wasn't a comment about the merit of those signings. Clearly someone is capable of getting deals over the line.

If you're going to mention ending up with players like Bingham, Thomas, dodoo, Bogle, Williams etc, why not mention Ramsey  Galbraith, Smith etc.

Yes, there have been some questionable signings but there have also been some good signings.

It's about keeping a little perspective on things.

[Alan Southstand]

A bit unfair to compare loans with permanents!

[Not Now Kato]

[Metalmicky]

Your nailing it today Not Now Kato...

[DonnyBazR0ver]

A bit unfair to compare loans with permanents!

People say alot of things Alan that's unfair.

As said  It’s about getting a bit of perspective and a little understanding that things aren't as easy as people make out.

Those who keep comparing to JR seems to forget about the dealings that went wrong under his watch and some players that turned out to be duffers too, particularly after our 'peak' and the slide had already started.

[sedwardsdrfc]

A bit unfair to compare loans with permanents!

People say alot of things Alan that's unfair.

As said  It’s about getting a bit of perspective and a little understanding that things aren't as easy as people make out.

Those who keep comparing to JR seems to forget about the dealings that went wrong under his watch and some players that turned out to be duffers too, particularly after our 'peak' and the slide had already started.

The problem is the ratio of good to bad signings isn't where anyone would like it to be. Of course signings don't work out but recently we probably getting 1 good signing for every 4 we bring in. Most clubs are probably at a 50:50 ratio of good to bad signings, we are a way off that.

That said injuries really haven't helped who knows a few we're discounting will hopefully go on to be big players for us yet

[roversdude]

sedwards what do you consider to be a bad signing please

[Alan Southstand]

The last time we made any good permanent signings was back in the Ferguson days. That’s about it.