Is it starting

[selby]

  I am watching the Arsenal v Stoke game, many empty seats are evident, as I have noticed at quite a few other premiership televised games lately.
   Even Old Trafford has shown signs of empty seats, and they advertise on Talksport, tickets available for games.
   For the first time in my life, the top division in this country is predictable, the gap between the haves and have nots has never been bigger. No longer do we get the regular upset when a smaller club beats one of the top sides, and in an era when only winning is good enough, are supporters getting fed up of being an also ran.
   The game at Everton was over in 20 minutes yesterday, Everton  never had a chance, and not for the first time in games between top and mid table sides this season the home supporters became  disillusioned at the product in front of them.
  It is, and will kill the game if the authorities don't watch it.

[Donnywolf]

Agreed - and its why there are so many Supporters of the "winning" Teams in towns like ours. Next week my local will be packed with 60% Man U fans and 30 % Man City fans boosted by the 10% or so who want to see Man U fail and get humiliated.

The divide as you say is now massive and growing ever wider.

Soon it will be Man Citys turn to cop the vitriol for being "too successful" but I really love the way they play and the first half yesterday was great to watch but as you say (quite rightly as usual) Everton never stood a chance !

[RedJ]

And what exactly do you propose they do?

[Cantley Rover]

Just watching it and thinking to myself. FIFA obviously know what they are doing by not having any English referees at this years world Cup. Yet another glaring mistake buy one of our supposed "top" officials.

[drfchound]

To be honest, generally,for the last few years the PL has been like three divisions in one.
The top six, the usual incumbents of course.

The bottom six or seven consisting of the three teams that come up the previous season and the three or four that nearly went down the year before.

The middle division being those like Everton who are not good enough to break into the top six or bad enough to go down.

Very predictable and although there are teams who occasionally look like they could “be different”, it doesn’t often happen.

This year the bottom six division is different for the first time in quite a while.

[Canadian Rover]

Leicester City anyone?

[drfchound]

Leicester City anyone?

A one off.

[rtid88]

Premier League clubs couldn't give a stuff about the fans anymore. The ridiculous TV money is all that they need. They could play in front of empty stadiums all year and still be in profit.

[keith79]

For me it's all about the cost of attending games. If they want to fill the stadiums they should reduce the cost.

[selby]

  Canadian Rover, when Leicester won the premiership, I used to walk the dog listening to Talk radio.
  I used to listen to such as Alan Brazil and all his mates, the common denominator of all of them was that they all had the idea that the big clubs (ie the top six) would not let it happen again. An idea that at that time I thought, how could they stop it?
   They have by taking their spending on players to new levels, paying eye watering wages, that have caused good clubs like West Brom, Sunderland, Newcastle etc. to accept they cannot compete.
   People who have supported such teams for generations have given up, if they get a great player they are likely to go on strike, or sulk to get away to one of the top six, the general feeling of the media  is you cannot stand in their way, it has always been my dream to play for United etc. etc.
   I am beginning to feel sorry for them, at least we do not expect our club to win every game, although it would be nice, we enter a cup competition every season we have a chance in, and a league also.  They are starting to have a future with no hope, unless they come down that is, which is another thing their supporters don't want.
   I think I would prefer our lot to theirs in consideration.

[i_ateallthepies]

It's the promised land Selby, everybody knows that...

[selby]

 It's not good for the game though, I am sad to say.

[GazLaz]

  I am watching the Arsenal v Stoke game, many empty seats are evident, as I have noticed at quite a few other premiership televised games lately.
   Even Old Trafford has shown signs of empty seats, and they advertise on Talksport, tickets available for games.
   For the first time in my life, the top division in this country is predictable, the gap between the haves and have nots has never been bigger. No longer do we get the regular upset when a smaller club beats one of the top sides, and in an era when only winning is good enough, are supporters getting fed up of being an also ran.
   The game at Everton was over in 20 minutes yesterday, Everton  never had a chance, and not for the first time in games between top and mid table sides this season the home supporters became  disillusioned at the product in front of them.
  It is, and will kill the game if the authorities don't watch it.

I’ve heard City advertising on TalkSport but not United. People are staying away from the Emirates because of Wenger. I’d say attendances in general in the Prem are very good.

[RedJ]

It's not good for the game though, I am sad to say.

I'll ask again. What exactly do you propose the authorities do, assuming they do "watch it"?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here’s a stat.

Arsenal, in 5th place, are 31 points above WesBrom at the bottom of the table, and 33 points behind Man City.

What on Earth is the point of the Premier League as a sporting competition?

RedJ. What to do about it?

Well, it’s a similar story in all the top countries. The leagues are dominated by a handful of clubs, mostly bankrolled by obscenely wealthy individuals. If FIFA and UEFA and the national authorities REALLY wanted to do something about it, they could bring in anti-monopoly rules like in Rugby League. Or the quasi-socialist draft system that they have in American Football, where the worst teams one season get first dabs on new signings in the close season.

But they won’t because they don’t care enough about the sport. As long as idiots who don’t care about the heart and soul of sport keep on shelling out to pay for Sky to beam this shite into their living rooms, and as long as the money keeps on circulating around at the top and greasing everyone’s arsehole, it’ll not change. 

[MrWoodySir]

To be honest, generally,for the last few years the PL has been like three divisions in one.
The top six, the usual incumbents of course.

The bottom six or seven consisting of the three teams that come up the previous season and the three or four that nearly went down the year before.

The middle division being those like Everton who are not good enough to break into the top six or bad enough to go down.

Very predictable and although there are teams who occasionally look like they could “be different”, it doesn’t often happen.

This year the bottom six division is different for the first time in quite a while.

Soutahmpton finished 8th last season.
West Brom 10th.
Stoke 13th?

Your three tier league system is greatly flawed

[drfchound]

To be honest, generally,for the last few years the PL has been like three divisions in one.
The top six, the usual incumbents of course.

The bottom six or seven consisting of the three teams that come up the previous season and the three or four that nearly went down the year before.

The middle division being those like Everton who are not good enough to break into the top six or bad enough to go down.

Very predictable and although there are teams who occasionally look like they could “be different”, it doesn’t often happen.

This year the bottom six division is different for the first time in quite a while.

Soutahmpton finished 8th last season.
West Brom 10th.
Stoke 13th?

Your three tier league system is greatly flawed

Didn’t you bother to read the last sentence of my post then.   

[scawsby steve]

To be honest, generally,for the last few years the PL has been like three divisions in one.
The top six, the usual incumbents of course.

The bottom six or seven consisting of the three teams that come up the previous season and the three or four that nearly went down the year before.

The middle division being those like Everton who are not good enough to break into the top six or bad enough to go down.

Very predictable and although there are teams who occasionally look like they could “be different”, it doesn’t often happen.

This year the bottom six division is different for the first time in quite a while.

Soutahmpton finished 8th last season.
West Brom 10th.
Stoke 13th?

Your three tier league system is greatly flawed

Whoosh!

[Padge_DRFC]

Man Utd games don’t even reach general sale and has a waiting list for season tickets currently.

[selby]

  What to do about it, kill the top clubs, let them or even force them to join a European league.
   Only one team can win it, it would be a fairer competition, at the beginning it would attract big bucks, but the fact that you would limit success, probably turn at least four of the six into also rans such as Everton and Southampton, that would sort it out.
  Turn their supporters into morphed Weeds fans, living in a past of 30 yrs ago, still dreaming of being good again.

[5minstogo]

I was speaking to a Huddersfield fan  today and he was saying how bad the atmosphere has been at their away games. He said all the big matches were just full on the prawn sarnie brigade and tourists. Football at that level is all about coin.

[Pancho Regan]

Leicester City anyone?

A one off.

I’m sorry but you can’t build a whole case about how predictable the Premier League is and then dismiss Leicester winning the title as a ‘one-off’.

That event undermines your argument.

Of course the same clubs will generally finish at the top end of the league, that’s the same in every league in most countries.

And I would argue that the home supporters at Everton yesterday didn’t start drifting away because they were disillusioned at the product in front of them as you suggest, it was because they were gutted at how outclassed their team was against a truly magnificent Man City.

I’m no big fan of the Premier League, in fact I hate what money has done to the game at the highest level, but I can still watch that performance by Man City and marvel at the brilliant football on show.

And have they won the PL title season after season in recent years? No.

[Pancho Regan]

Also, I noted the attendances at a couple of the clubs who seem to be condemned as ‘no hopers’.....

52,000 at Newcastle
56,000 at West Ham

Not too shabby.

[selby]

  Padge, it's the same at the Arsenal, the fact is most can afford to have a season ticket, but now don't bother going to the matches.
  The boycott is exactly that, Wenger is an excuse and only an easy target, they  are protesting because they  think they should be number 1.
    It's the  thought of entitlement, we pay more for our ticket, so why are we not at the top.
  Chelsea are the same, and Tottenham will be the same when the new ground comes along, if they keep their players at the end of the season.
  My cousin paid £38,000 for two debentures on seats at the gunners, he unfortunately died just after the start of this season, and the family have had numerous enquiries to acquire them, some from France, Germany, and Southern Ireland, and at a premium price.
 The family are keeping them, makes our season tickets look good value doesn't it.

[drfchound]

Leicester City anyone?

A one off.

I’m sorry but you can’t build a whole case about how predictable the Premier League is and then dismiss Leicester winning the title as a ‘one-off’.

That event undermines your argument.

Of course the same clubs will generally finish at the top end of the league, that’s the same in every league in most countries.

And I would argue that the home supporters at Everton yesterday didn’t start drifting away because they were disillusioned at the product in front of them as you suggest, it was because they were gutted at how outclassed their team was against a truly magnificent Man City.

I’m no big fan of the Premier League, in fact I hate what money has done to the game at the highest level, but I can still watch that performance by Man City and marvel at the brilliant football on show.

And have they won the PL title season after season in recent years? No.

Pancho, in the last twenty two seasons only once has a team outside of the current top six won the PL so I think I can say with some justification that Leicester winning it is a one off.
That event rather underlines my argument, instead of undermining it.

Also, where did I suggest that Everton fans had left early as they were disillusioned at their teams performance, or anything else for that matter.
To be honest I don’t and wouldn’t pay to view the PL so I wouldn’t have seen that anyway.

[NickDRFC]

You could equally say that 3 different sides have won in the last 3 years. Doesn’t seem all that predictable put like that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

Absolutely. And it’s not just the sides winning the PL. It’s almost always the same names in the top 4 or 6. Compare that to the 25 years before the PL when there was a constant turnover of top 4 sides. Derby, Forest, Leeds, Ipswich, Southampton, Watford, Everton, QPR, Villa, WBA etc, etc in addition to the Man Us and the Liverpools and the Arsenals. There’s no chance of that returning as things stand. The whole soul of football has been throttled off by the money men.

[BillyStubbsTears]

In the last nine seasons (including this one) there have been 54 places up for grabs in the top 6 of the PL.

50 of those places have been occupied by Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs.

The big money men have killed off the idea of competition.

[boro_rover]

Scotland had Celtic and Rangers. France have PSG and formerly Lyon. Portugal is Benfica and Porto. Spain has always been Madrid and Barca. Holland has always been Ajax and PSV. Italy was always Milan and Juventus. The fact is almost every other top league is the same, just on a different scale. It isn’t often another team in those leagues win their league. Success breeds more investment and the best players want to play for the most successful clubs. There isn’t a player in the world who doesn’t want to play for the best teams. Just like in the real world the most employable get the best paid jobs in their sector.

It does kill off competition for other clubs. Which is unfortunate - much the same as corporations limit small businesses potential. But i do enjoy watching the creme de la creme going head to head because some beautiful football is there to be seen.

However I feel slightly sorry for the super rich who can have whatever whenever. They never get to feel the happiness the everyday man does when they can finally afford to take their family on that dream holiday or buy that car they always hoped they would own. The years of shit for those magical days when it is finally your turn, like the Britannia, the millennium stadium and Wembley  make supporting a club like ours worth it and extra special.

[dickos1]

The top 3 or 4 can be predicted but if you stopped promotion out of our league then Blackburn and Wigan would finish at the top every season also. Doesn’t mean the league is predictable.

Look at Burnley, Bournemouth, Watford.
There’s around 7/8 sides in the prem at the minute who’ve been promoted there in the last 4/5 years and none of them are in the relegation zone