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BBWhat can "we" do?I have you an analogy 18 months back. Imagine you're on a plane. There's a big nasty thunderstorm ahead. One pilot wants to fly through it. One wants to go round it. There are aeronautical engineers on board. They say that if you fly through the storm, the structure of the plane will be endangered. The bullish pilot argues passionately that everything will be fine. And that he'll try to avoid the worst of the storm anyway. The more cautious one says he's worried that there will be problems. The passengers have a vote and decide to ignore the experts and fly through. You start flying through. At first there's no massive sign of trouble. Then the plane starts vibrating. Bits start falling off. Not the precise bits that were predicted. But some. Meantime, the bullish pilot actually ignores what he said about avoiding the worst of the storm, and flies straight into the worst of the wind. That is an almost perfect analogy for what has happened. So. As a passenger, do you sit there and say, "well the experts didn't get it right. Let's just carry on." Or do you start to think that the original vote was rather iffy. That things are turning out pretty bad. And that it might be worth pushing for a change of plan?
Dunno Filo. It hasn't got to the worst part yet. But the "experts'" predictions are broadly coming true. Still, the pilot says it'll be alright if we just shut up and let him/her deal with it.
Quote from: wilts rover on October 15, 2017, 08:41:07 pmQuote from: Bentley Bullet on October 15, 2017, 05:32:47 pmWhat are you talking about?!!! You asked me "What has sovereignty got to do with Brexit negotiations today"? I answered by saying "Some people believe that we will still be under most EU rules for years even after Brexit. Maybe they are concerned about this affecting the country's chances of regaining sovereignty should Brexit negotiations go against us". I suggest you ask them, not me. I only answered your question of what has Sovereignty got to do with negotiations today!Remember Mr Wilts, You seem to be the expert on everything about everything. I've always insisted that predicting the result of Brexit would be complete conjecture. I've NEVER, EVER tried to imply otherwise.You have certainly more than implied that the Brexit negotiations have broken down because of 'sovereignty' or is writing it not implying it?It makes me an expert because I answer your questions does it? Seems everybody is an expert these days Mr Bentley.Mr Wilts, where have I implied that Brexit negotiations have broken down, because of sovereignty or otherwise? I don't even know if negotiations have broken down!
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on October 15, 2017, 05:32:47 pmWhat are you talking about?!!! You asked me "What has sovereignty got to do with Brexit negotiations today"? I answered by saying "Some people believe that we will still be under most EU rules for years even after Brexit. Maybe they are concerned about this affecting the country's chances of regaining sovereignty should Brexit negotiations go against us". I suggest you ask them, not me. I only answered your question of what has Sovereignty got to do with negotiations today!Remember Mr Wilts, You seem to be the expert on everything about everything. I've always insisted that predicting the result of Brexit would be complete conjecture. I've NEVER, EVER tried to imply otherwise.You have certainly more than implied that the Brexit negotiations have broken down because of 'sovereignty' or is writing it not implying it?It makes me an expert because I answer your questions does it? Seems everybody is an expert these days Mr Bentley.
What are you talking about?!!! You asked me "What has sovereignty got to do with Brexit negotiations today"? I answered by saying "Some people believe that we will still be under most EU rules for years even after Brexit. Maybe they are concerned about this affecting the country's chances of regaining sovereignty should Brexit negotiations go against us". I suggest you ask them, not me. I only answered your question of what has Sovereignty got to do with negotiations today!Remember Mr Wilts, You seem to be the expert on everything about everything. I've always insisted that predicting the result of Brexit would be complete conjecture. I've NEVER, EVER tried to imply otherwise.
Some people believe that we will still be under most EU rules for years even after Brexit. Maybe they are concerned about this affecting the country's chances of regaining sovereignty should Brexit negotiations go against us.
So if you answer a question about Brexit negotiations breaking down with a reply about people being concerned about sovereignty what does that imply?I am surprised you dont know they broke down last week. I would post you a link to the news stories about them but I know you dont like people putting sources on their information. Maybe you need to rub your crystal ball harder.
One of the main reasons people said they voted to leave was to take back sovereignty from the huge bureaucratic entity with its complex maze of laws that is the EU. So why are they now surprised that it is acting like a complex bureaucratic entity - because that's what it is!
Quote from: wilts rover on October 07, 2017, 07:26:32 pmOne of the main reasons people said they voted to leave was to take back sovereignty from the huge bureaucratic entity with its complex maze of laws that is the EU. So why are they now surprised that it is acting like a complex bureaucratic entity - because that's what it is!Na Mr Wilts, it was this fella above.
I voted to stay in, knowing that a vote to come out would be disruptive.Neither Cameron(the fool) or Bojo (the bafoon) put up much of a credible arguement why we should stay in or leave,and the E.U. giving next to nothing to Cameron,and scaremongering, and the influx of Syrian and economic immigrants from Africa being at its height swayed the electorate. Endless debates with second class M.Ps. mostly with very little substance in debate except to slag each other off, let quick thinking Farage make them look fools,he had an answer to all their quips because of Camerons failure,and the repetitive nature of the remainers arguement. Now the die is cast,the remainers are being seen as to be people who think that the common people are not to be trusted to make such an important decision,and in my opinion have succeeded in alienated even more of the electorate against staying in the E.U. Never before has the electorate been more divided,but the latest polls have shown a widening of the vote to leave, as more resentment against the E.U. leaders of the negotiations play hard ball,and ours try to turn it into a battle of the generations,pitting young against old. Me, I would now vote out,I do not like to be took for granted,nor do I like being threatened,what I do want, and expect, is for our M.Ps. to start doing their best for this country instead of looking after themselves. If they can do that then maybe,after a few years, we will come out of the other end of this mess in a better position as a country.
I believe brexit is like a marriage. One person ask to other to change. They said no. Should the unhappy one be expected to stay? Or leave?
Of course they shouldn't bend over backwards to accommodate us, I'm not sure who is expecting them to. I would imagine our aim is to prevent an unfair divorce settlement which has been designed to discourage other EU countries from wanting to separate.