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Quote from: hoolahoop on December 09, 2017, 07:10:15 amYoung people might like to question the older generations as to why they are so keen to turn their back on the high principles of the Treaty of Rome..............................................................The Preamble to the 1957 Treaty of Rome.DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,RESOLVED to ensure the economic and social progress of their countries by common action to eliminate the barriers which divide Europe,AFFIRMING as the essential objective of their efforts the constant improvement of the living and working conditions of their peoples,RECOGNISING that the removal of existing obstacles calls for concerted action in order to guarantee steady expansion, balanced trade and fair competition,ANXIOUS to strengthen the unity of their economies and to ensure their harmonious development by reducing the differences existing between the various regions and the backwardness of the less favoured regions,DESIRING to contribute, by means of a common commercial policy, to the progressive abolition of restrictions on international trade,INTENDING to confirm the solidarity which binds Europe and the overseas countries and desiring to ensure the development of their prosperity, in accordance with the principles of the Charter of the United Nations,RESOLVED by thus pooling their resources to preserve and strengthen peace and liberty, and calling upon the other peoples of Europe who share their ideal to join in their effortsWho in their right mind in Britain or the EU would put their trust in assurances from Treeza May, Boris, Gove, IDS, or any of her gang of Brexit Ministers ?What exactly are their principles and where is the evidence ?UK was not a signatory to the Treaty of Rome
Young people might like to question the older generations as to why they are so keen to turn their back on the high principles of the Treaty of Rome..............................................................The Preamble to the 1957 Treaty of Rome.DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,RESOLVED to ensure the economic and social progress of their countries by common action to eliminate the barriers which divide Europe,AFFIRMING as the essential objective of their efforts the constant improvement of the living and working conditions of their peoples,RECOGNISING that the removal of existing obstacles calls for concerted action in order to guarantee steady expansion, balanced trade and fair competition,ANXIOUS to strengthen the unity of their economies and to ensure their harmonious development by reducing the differences existing between the various regions and the backwardness of the less favoured regions,DESIRING to contribute, by means of a common commercial policy, to the progressive abolition of restrictions on international trade,INTENDING to confirm the solidarity which binds Europe and the overseas countries and desiring to ensure the development of their prosperity, in accordance with the principles of the Charter of the United Nations,RESOLVED by thus pooling their resources to preserve and strengthen peace and liberty, and calling upon the other peoples of Europe who share their ideal to join in their effortsWho in their right mind in Britain or the EU would put their trust in assurances from Treeza May, Boris, Gove, IDS, or any of her gang of Brexit Ministers ?What exactly are their principles and where is the evidence ?
Quote from: Filo on December 09, 2017, 09:53:08 amQuote from: hoolahoop on December 09, 2017, 07:10:15 amYoung people might like to question the older generations as to why they are so keen to turn their back on the high principles of the Treaty of Rome..............................................................The Preamble to the 1957 Treaty of Rome.DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,RESOLVED to ensure the economic and social progress of their countries by common action to eliminate the barriers which divide Europe,AFFIRMING as the essential objective of their efforts the constant improvement of the living and working conditions of their peoples,RECOGNISING that the removal of existing obstacles calls for concerted action in order to guarantee steady expansion, balanced trade and fair competition,ANXIOUS to strengthen the unity of their economies and to ensure their harmonious development by reducing the differences existing between the various regions and the backwardness of the less favoured regions,DESIRING to contribute, by means of a common commercial policy, to the progressive abolition of restrictions on international trade,INTENDING to confirm the solidarity which binds Europe and the overseas countries and desiring to ensure the development of their prosperity, in accordance with the principles of the Charter of the United Nations,RESOLVED by thus pooling their resources to preserve and strengthen peace and liberty, and calling upon the other peoples of Europe who share their ideal to join in their effortsWho in their right mind in Britain or the EU would put their trust in assurances from Treeza May, Boris, Gove, IDS, or any of her gang of Brexit Ministers ?What exactly are their principles and where is the evidence ?UK was not a signatory to the Treaty of RomeAre you serious ? We accepted All the tenets of the Treaty of Rome on Accession - failure to do so would have meant we could never have turned our country around on the back of the EU . Thought you were unnecessarily harsh on GW when you clearly knew what I meant and what we stand to lose. The ambitions of the T of R have largely been obtained haven't they ? I drive round Donny and think " that was built with allocated EU money "", " that's on going " etc. Much of that round our County would NEVER have been allocated Central government funding .See point 5 above .
Quote from: hoolahoop on December 09, 2017, 06:58:59 pmQuote from: Filo on December 09, 2017, 09:53:08 amQuote from: hoolahoop on December 09, 2017, 07:10:15 amYoung people might like to question the older generations as to why they are so keen to turn their back on the high principles of the Treaty of Rome..............................................................The Preamble to the 1957 Treaty of Rome.DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,RESOLVED to ensure the economic and social progress of their countries by common action to eliminate the barriers which divide Europe,AFFIRMING as the essential objective of their efforts the constant improvement of the living and working conditions of their peoples,RECOGNISING that the removal of existing obstacles calls for concerted action in order to guarantee steady expansion, balanced trade and fair competition,ANXIOUS to strengthen the unity of their economies and to ensure their harmonious development by reducing the differences existing between the various regions and the backwardness of the less favoured regions,DESIRING to contribute, by means of a common commercial policy, to the progressive abolition of restrictions on international trade,INTENDING to confirm the solidarity which binds Europe and the overseas countries and desiring to ensure the development of their prosperity, in accordance with the principles of the Charter of the United Nations,RESOLVED by thus pooling their resources to preserve and strengthen peace and liberty, and calling upon the other peoples of Europe who share their ideal to join in their effortsWho in their right mind in Britain or the EU would put their trust in assurances from Treeza May, Boris, Gove, IDS, or any of her gang of Brexit Ministers ?What exactly are their principles and where is the evidence ?UK was not a signatory to the Treaty of RomeAre you serious ? We accepted All the tenets of the Treaty of Rome on Accession - failure to do so would have meant we could never have turned our country around on the back of the EU . Thought you were unnecessarily harsh on GW when you clearly knew what I meant and what we stand to lose. The ambitions of the T of R have largely been obtained haven't they ? I drive round Donny and think " that was built with allocated EU money "", " that's on going " etc. Much of that round our County would NEVER have been allocated Central government funding .See point 5 above .Harsh?He said in his demeaning manner of posting that we had signed the Treaty of Rome, when we clearly have n't
Love that article BST. Just a shame that its inescapable logic to the collapse of Brexit excludes one important factor - the combination of incompetence, personal agendas and egoes of some politicians who we have already seen put their own short term futures above the country's long term future.
They say it the sign of a good friend that they stand by you when you’re in trouble. What does that say about Ireland then?https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-ireland-has-just-saved-the-uk-from-the-madness-of-a-hard-brexit-1.3320096?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=trueAnd where is the journalism in THIS country that is informing the population of the reality of these momentous decisions?
Quote from: Dutch Uncle on December 10, 2017, 12:43:37 pmLove that article BST. Just a shame that its inescapable logic to the collapse of Brexit excludes one important factor - the combination of incompetence, personal agendas and egoes of some politicians who we have already seen put their own short term futures above the country's long term future. Exhibit Number 1:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42298971If I was the EU I'd refuse to carry on negotiating with this buffoon after this latest spout of BS of trying to tie Brexit terms to a trade deal that has nothing to do with Brexit, especially as - unlike John Profumo - he hasn't got the honour or integrity to resign after being caught lying to Parliament.
An interesting report that escaped out with very little notice last week. People must have been busy with something else.People are more pessimistic about Brexit and the governments' handling of negotiations, yet they still want it to happen as control of immigration is more important to them than trade and economic consequences.http://natcen.ac.uk/news-media/press-releases/2017/december/voters-more-pessimistic-about-the-outcome-of-brexit,-but-have-not-changed-their-minds-about-what-brexit-should-mean/Nice piece on it in the Guardian which is summed up by 'what happens when people realise they have been conned'.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/10/brexit-mirage-brussels-talks-theresa-may
This has to be the worst bunch of Parliamentarians of my lifetime - they are pathetic!
Quote from: hoolahoop on December 11, 2017, 11:46:14 pmThis has to be the worst bunch of Parliamentarians of my lifetime - they are pathetic!I think you are right. There have been bad Government before and when the Tories got routed and Tony Blair and Labour got in the Tories looked like they would never regain power for yearsHowever their "crime" was looking old and out of touch - a totally different matter to the idiots we have at the moment (on both sides). They seem devoid of any morals whatsoever and have brought a new "art" to not answering any question that might prove tricky for them
Yes hound but the banding about of different statistics to somehow prove that more is being spent on this or that than 2010 has become ridiculous. There should be a body to dispute and hold those to account that blatantly and continuously lie a statistical watchdog if you like.
Quote from: hoolahoop on December 12, 2017, 09:14:53 amYes hound but the banding about of different statistics to somehow prove that more is being spent on this or that than 2010 has become ridiculous. There should be a body to dispute and hold those to account that blatantly and continuously lie a statistical watchdog if you like.Of course I know that hound I'm not naive but who gives a feck if xyz % more is being spent on say the NHS than was spent in 2010 when the money is STILL insufficient . Tit for tat 2 Party politics is killing this country and that needs sorting out if we are to proceed as a modern democracy. Money is forever being wasted simply reversing the way the " other " lot did things .......We don't move on . No wonder we are getting left behind compared to many other leading countries in the areas where key indicators can be compared. Hoola, come on mate, we all know that this is what all politicians do all the time.
I watched the debate today , all the supposed rebel Tories seemed to be fully behind this nonsense . The Soubrys, Morgan's ect. all there patting her on the back . Corbyn missed a real trick today even Hilary Benn forgot to mention the missing impact assessments . It was poor from Labour at what was or should have been sitting targets . Little or nothing was achieved by any of the Opposition Parties except the SNP 's ian Blackford who at least makes Treeza work at it . This has to be the worst bunch of Parliamentarians of my lifetime - they are pathetic!
I am astonished that anyone is surprised that politicians (of all parties) don't tell the truth or give straight answers to questions.As for infighting, well that has always been the case hasn't it?
Quote from: drfchound on December 12, 2017, 08:59:25 amI am astonished that anyone is surprised that politicians (of all parties) don't tell the truth or give straight answers to questions.As for infighting, well that has always been the case hasn't it?A majority government deliberately making itself into a minority government because it's own MPs weren't willing to follow their own leader smacks of a different level of infighting though.
There is a huge imbalance between young and old in Parliament . It needs addressing fast as decisions can't always be made by the old for the young- there is a disconnect and a misunderstanding of youth cultures, needs etc.Personally it's time that we limited the years spent in Parliament by individuals ......i.e. 30/40 + years is far too long to ' nurse ' the politics of yesteryear and impede the policies required for the ever-evolving needs of the here and now and of course plan for the future. Yes by all means learn from yesterday but to still live there is a crime in politics and that has brought us into this mess. A group of 60 + year old men have been nursing an ideology that simply held us back in Europe . Rather than shape it they continuously fought against it . The rest will be the future history written about the downfall of the UK brought about by these old , grey men in suits. Those who who fo years plotted and eventually destroyed the futures of generations to come .
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on December 12, 2017, 11:37:20 amQuote from: drfchound on December 12, 2017, 08:59:25 amI am astonished that anyone is surprised that politicians (of all parties) don't tell the truth or give straight answers to questions.As for infighting, well that has always been the case hasn't it?A majority government deliberately making itself into a minority government because it's own MPs weren't willing to follow their own leader smacks of a different level of infighting though.Not sure what you mean. The Tories lost their majority because May miscalculated and then fought a wretched campaign.
Quote from: The Red Baron on December 12, 2017, 11:44:19 amQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on December 12, 2017, 11:37:20 amQuote from: drfchound on December 12, 2017, 08:59:25 amI am astonished that anyone is surprised that politicians (of all parties) don't tell the truth or give straight answers to questions.As for infighting, well that has always been the case hasn't it?A majority government deliberately making itself into a minority government because it's own MPs weren't willing to follow their own leader smacks of a different level of infighting though.Not sure what you mean. The Tories lost their majority because May miscalculated and then fought a wretched campaign. I was replying to Donnywolf, who was talking about the Major government, as was I.