0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Quote from: Donny Exile in York on November 25, 2021, 06:08:08 pmQuote from: The Beast on November 25, 2021, 05:54:10 pmQuote from: Donny Exile in York on November 25, 2021, 03:57:30 pmQuote from: The Beast on November 25, 2021, 02:24:01 pmAs football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough. I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision. I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or yviewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so. I’ve no doubt you’re a loyal supporter, we’ve probably got 2/3000 like you, Ipswich have got 10,000, Sunderland 20,000.So what exactly should the club do to get out of this predicament? Don’t you think they are trying? Was Wellens the wrong choice? Should they sack him now? Should they put more money in and subsidise us even more? Would you hold the board directly responsible for the kit being crap? Do you know any parties who want to take over? Try answering some of Rugby Rovers questions. We've covered the rest previously probably 6 or 8 league games ago... not to mention after the first five league games or last April /May when I was hounded for saying we needed investment otherwise this season would be a follow on from the end of the last or even worse.., . Do you want to enlighten me and everyone to what you think should be done or we just continue the downward spiral?It seems some people accept there was need for a rebuild but are not willing to accept the risk and consequences that come with it.Sometimes in life you have to go backwards before going forwards again.. When the slide of results came during and after Moore's departure, I fully accepted that we needed a full rebuild and I fully accepted that it would likely take more than one transfer window for any incoming manager to get things moving forward again.Of course, we would want to avoid relegation but we can't pick and choose these things, neither the board, nor the manager could have foreseen such a prolonged run of injuries however, this season still has a long way to go.There is no need to panic! What needs to be done is to continue to support our club whatever way you can and be patient. Allow the club and the management team to do what is necessary to execute their plan for January.
Quote from: The Beast on November 25, 2021, 05:54:10 pmQuote from: Donny Exile in York on November 25, 2021, 03:57:30 pmQuote from: The Beast on November 25, 2021, 02:24:01 pmAs football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough. I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision. I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or yviewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so. I’ve no doubt you’re a loyal supporter, we’ve probably got 2/3000 like you, Ipswich have got 10,000, Sunderland 20,000.So what exactly should the club do to get out of this predicament? Don’t you think they are trying? Was Wellens the wrong choice? Should they sack him now? Should they put more money in and subsidise us even more? Would you hold the board directly responsible for the kit being crap? Do you know any parties who want to take over? Try answering some of Rugby Rovers questions. We've covered the rest previously probably 6 or 8 league games ago... not to mention after the first five league games or last April /May when I was hounded for saying we needed investment otherwise this season would be a follow on from the end of the last or even worse.., . Do you want to enlighten me and everyone to what you think should be done or we just continue the downward spiral?
Quote from: Donny Exile in York on November 25, 2021, 03:57:30 pmQuote from: The Beast on November 25, 2021, 02:24:01 pmAs football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough. I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision. I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or yviewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so. I’ve no doubt you’re a loyal supporter, we’ve probably got 2/3000 like you, Ipswich have got 10,000, Sunderland 20,000.So what exactly should the club do to get out of this predicament? Don’t you think they are trying? Was Wellens the wrong choice? Should they sack him now? Should they put more money in and subsidise us even more? Would you hold the board directly responsible for the kit being crap? Do you know any parties who want to take over?
Quote from: The Beast on November 25, 2021, 02:24:01 pmAs football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough. I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision. I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or yviewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so.
As football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough. I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision. I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!
Quote from: DonnyBazR0ver on November 25, 2021, 06:35:49 pmQuote from: Donny Exile in York on November 25, 2021, 06:08:08 pmQuote from: The Beast on November 25, 2021, 05:54:10 pmQuote from: Donny Exile in York on November 25, 2021, 03:57:30 pmQuote from: The Beast on November 25, 2021, 02:24:01 pmAs football as a business is unsustainable due to so much artificial stimulus, I think it is the correct decision to try and find other revenue streams to fund the football. The team was in a false position under Moore before Christmas, which made the collapse after the Whiteman sale look all the more catastrophic. The board appointed Wellens which most people were happy with at the time, we were told it was a rebuild, we all knew it was going to be a tough, probably not this tough. I’m not convinced by Wellens but what he’s been dealt has been awful, poor preparation and injuries. I can see signs of very slow improvement.It’s easy to criticise, say the kit is crap etc, I don’t like the kit, I’m sure though it was designed in good faith, I’m sure every decision that is made is made in good faith, obviously there’s always an opportunity cost and sometimes you make the wrong decision. I don’t honestly know what people expect from the owners, we are doing terribly but sometimes that happens you lose irreplaceable players and make bad calls on their replacements. Everything happens in cycles, 7 years of feast 7 years of famine, the graph doesn’t forever go in a straight diagonal upwards line. Have a bit of patience, stop being so fickle, do not ask what your club can do for you, ask what you can do for your club!I suggest you reign in the judgements then yourself, who's been fickle, as a season ticket holder, lottery goer etc i am doing my bit! Given our position in the table, i just take a different view to Osterich's sticking their head in the sand or yviewing a graph and going,... ohhh it went up for 7 years, now its time for the slide... it's all Ok we can see pretty patterns in the graphs! There should be scrutiny of the workings of the club given the fall from grace over the past 11 months or so. I’ve no doubt you’re a loyal supporter, we’ve probably got 2/3000 like you, Ipswich have got 10,000, Sunderland 20,000.So what exactly should the club do to get out of this predicament? Don’t you think they are trying? Was Wellens the wrong choice? Should they sack him now? Should they put more money in and subsidise us even more? Would you hold the board directly responsible for the kit being crap? Do you know any parties who want to take over? Try answering some of Rugby Rovers questions. We've covered the rest previously probably 6 or 8 league games ago... not to mention after the first five league games or last April /May when I was hounded for saying we needed investment otherwise this season would be a follow on from the end of the last or even worse.., . Do you want to enlighten me and everyone to what you think should be done or we just continue the downward spiral?It seems some people accept there was need for a rebuild but are not willing to accept the risk and consequences that come with it.Sometimes in life you have to go backwards before going forwards again.. When the slide of results came during and after Moore's departure, I fully accepted that we needed a full rebuild and I fully accepted that it would likely take more than one transfer window for any incoming manager to get things moving forward again.Of course, we would want to avoid relegation but we can't pick and choose these things, neither the board, nor the manager could have foreseen such a prolonged run of injuries however, this season still has a long way to go.There is no need to panic! What needs to be done is to continue to support our club whatever way you can and be patient. Allow the club and the management team to do what is necessary to execute their plan for January. Your assuming a rebuild will be successful, or not be over a much longer 5 or 10 year cycle, was our rebuild from the early 80s promotions or late 80s relegation done in a year, or indeed several incarnations of owners and managers.... a rebuild does require investment, let's hope we get some. A rebuild can mean lots of things, a quicker rebuild would be for the wealthy individual on the Board, probably in the top 50 wealthy individuals in the Yorkshire region (just an intentionally very conservative estimate i hasten to add) to say Ok sustainability and self funding is great and aspirational but following a once in a century pandemic and unprecedented period of no crowds or income from gate receipts, maybe a kick start is needed to stop free falling and unravelling all the good work done over many years, focusing on some investment on the pitch to 'sustain' our position in the league we are in. Just a thought. Maybe the rebuild would be less painful and quicker as a result, and less lost revenue from reduced crowds etc. as a consequence of elongated poor results.
Quote from: EasyforDennis on November 25, 2021, 02:09:55 pmQuote from: Glyn_Wigley on November 25, 2021, 01:53:18 pmQuote from: since-1969 on November 25, 2021, 09:16:14 amThe owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !If I spot the facts do I win £5?Maybe you should point out the inaccuracies instead? Ok let’s assume that the OP is pretty accurate with this viewpoint, and I do tend to agree with most of it…So if the OP is correct and he believes, as do many, that this is the direction that DRFC are heading for the reasons stated……….why the hell bitch about it every day?If you are told there’s a storm brewing, and you can clearly see it on the horizon, as can all your neighbours…..why continually knock on doors offering the opinion that there’s a storm brewing when it’s bloody obvious?
Quote from: Glyn_Wigley on November 25, 2021, 01:53:18 pmQuote from: since-1969 on November 25, 2021, 09:16:14 amThe owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !If I spot the facts do I win £5?Maybe you should point out the inaccuracies instead?
Quote from: since-1969 on November 25, 2021, 09:16:14 amThe owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !If I spot the facts do I win £5?
The owners are on safe journey to establish a self sustaining club that is build around many streams of income and not reliant on the owners making up the short fall . It sounds idealistic and sound business practice . BUT it comes at a price . This price is now paid by the fans by tapering their expectations of success year on year . With loan players to fill in the squads deficiencies often players who haven’t played at Efl level . Wages being the main burden on a clubs income is capped by the turnover and spending over all is spread over several transfer windows to maximise its chances of signing available out of contract players . Managers are not expected to exceed the budget or risk players being loaned out to other small clubs to keep within its budget . This model is not designed for success on the pitch but to maintain a balance sheet without the owners required to invest . DRFC are drifting slowly into obscurity with its fan base dwindling year on year. Imo 145 years of the clubs history is being ring fenced and bound up in a metaphoric chastity belt to prevent it ever getting ideas beyond its capabilities to grow . Baldwin and co are a fraud and should leave if ever the club is to get its self respect back to the fans who have seen this demise years before and the pain of the exile out of the League before . Let the supporters have a say now or watch US all walk away !! This my view only !
It's not the first time I've read on this forum about wanting to become a self sufficient club and I do smile to myself when I've read those threads .My club is a self sufficient club given the owners have never invested one single penny in to the club other than a couple of instalments when they purchased it .When self sufficiency rides in to your club then there are a number of things to consider .Firstly balancing the books comes before success on the field .So even if you are sat in a challenging position in the league or indeed just enjoyed a promotion then expect your better players sold when the offers come in .You won't become self sufficient outside of trading players with the revenue streams you create , it's impossible for ourselves even with respect higher gates and ST takeup plus greater Sky tv revenue .Again with respect it would be almost impossible for Rovers to sustain championship football as a self sufficient club and massively difficult to challenge consistently at the top end of league one .Player trading whilst the only way to self sufficiency also carries a 60% fail rate and those are top end stats .Competition for unearthed gems is massively competitive , almost everyone has a data led angle too these days .Recruiting players outside of the UK and in the European Union to cast your net further is now massively difficult unless you are purchasing players from the top flight and have international honours to under 21 level as a minimum .I would respectively suggest that if your owners are pumping £2m in every season then you want to thank your lucky stars .Our complained on the record about our fifth placed finish last season was a bit of a failure , I kid you not .A failure because no real offers came in for our better players ( who they are right now is anybody's guess mind ) .Money trumps ambition on the field , trust me it will .Be careful what you wish for and I say that without wanting the extreme Derby and Reading type strategy either .Football is football , fans want success over a balance sheet .A self sufficiency model and no success on the field just won't work .The game needs to come towards clubs such as Rovers and Barnsley rather than looking at self sufficiency .The latest review that was announced yesterday may go some way to level up the playing field .
Tyke, with respect, would you mind putting in a call to our Board, because they obviously still think sustainability is working!Your post is a breath of fresh air. Thanks.
I have been supporting Rovers since 1973' I am used to disappointment and underachieving !
Quote from: Alan Southstand on November 26, 2021, 01:56:06 pmTyke, with respect, would you mind putting in a call to our Board, because they obviously still think sustainability is working!Your post is a breath of fresh air. Thanks.Alan I'm sure none of us want to see our clubs run like Reading , Derby County and Wednesday and I certainly don't at Barnsley even though our owners have a combined wealth of £9bn .The facts are that football is a risk and reward industry and there's no escaping that .Yes there are the abject failures as I've mentioned but there are success stories too such as AFC Bournemouth and Brentford , two clubs who we both played regularly in the old fourth division back in the day .I'll say something else too Alan people who get involved in football clubs do so with their eyes wide open and understand the pitfalls .Self sufficiency has it's place don't get me wrong but in my opinion and with respect it's fits Exeter City , Forest Green etc and will work between league two and a fleeting season or two in league one .If you want to challenge higher over a sustained period then unfortunately it won't work .We are testament to that .