Brexit Benefits Log

[BillyStubbsTears]

Glyn it's highly likely that AZ are meeting their obligations as their obligations to existing contracts should typically be met first, that would be reasonable of them and a good reason why they aren't obliged to meet the EU order.

You'd love criticising Boris if it was the other way around. The EU have massively got this wrong.  I think actually the EU is too big to cope with the individual member states requirements in this case. It just hasn't worked.

I'm with you on this BFYP. The UK has absolutely got the vaccine procurement right and the EU has been woeful. I heard an EU official the other day saying that it was important to them that they screwed the price down. That is beyond belief. They will need a billion vaccine does. If they save 5 Euros on each one, that is a pin prick compared to what they will lose by being even a week late in vaccinating.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn. I never mentioned Selby. I said ‘anyone’. I never said whether I agreed with him or you or anyone else.
I’m entitled to observe, and read and quietly come to my own conclusions. My conclusion is that whenever anyone tries to offer a Brexit benefit, they are shot down.
It seems to me that your obsession with Selby has spilled over to my post.
As for ‘not even me’ nailing my colours to his mast’ - what on earth does that mean?
For what it’s worth, I don’t think I’ve ever had a direct conversation with Selby, for or against anything (though I’d be happy to be corrected on that).

I do enjoy reading his pre match threads, though.

Surely you'd agree that any claims of Brexit benefits that weren't genuine should be challenged? That's only right.

Which goes back to - which genuine Brexit benefit in your opinion has been unfairly shot down though? You must have some in mind for you to have said that in the first place. No one else can decide what your opinion is, only you, so I'd be interested to know.

[Filo]

Glyn it's highly likely that AZ are meeting their obligations as their obligations to existing contracts should typically be met first, that would be reasonable of them and a good reason why they aren't obliged to meet the EU order.

You'd love criticising Boris if it was the other way around. The EU have massively got this wrong.  I think actually the EU is too big to cope with the individual member states requirements in this case. It just hasn't worked.

I'm with you on this BFYP. The UK has absolutely got the vaccine procurement right and the EU has been woeful. I heard an EU official the other day saying that it was important to them that they screwed the price down. That is beyond belief. They will need a billion vaccine does. If they save 5 Euros on each one, that is a pin prick compared to what they will lose by being even a week late in vaccinating.

Cheeky t**ts, AZ are supplying the vaccine at cost, as far as I’m concerned the EU are behind us in the queue, they ordered 3 months later than us, so one benefit of brexit is we didn’t join their procurement process

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn it's highly likely that AZ are meeting their obligations as their obligations to existing contracts should typically be met first, that would be reasonable of them and a good reason why they aren't obliged to meet the EU order.

You'd love criticising Boris if it was the other way around. The EU have massively got this wrong.  I think actually the EU is too big to cope with the individual member states requirements in this case. It just hasn't worked.

I'm with you on this BFYP. The UK has absolutely got the vaccine procurement right and the EU has been woeful. I heard an EU official the other day saying that it was important to them that they screwed the price down. That is beyond belief. They will need a billion vaccine does. If they save 5 Euros on each one, that is a pin prick compared to what they will lose by being even a week late in vaccinating.

Cheeky t**ts, AZ are supplying the vaccine at cost, as far as I’m concerned the EU are behind us in the queue, they ordered 3 months later than us, so one benefit of brexit is we didn’t join their procurement process

Whose fault is it that AstraZenica aren't fulfilling their contract - AstraZenica or the EU?

Yes, I agree that the EU are behind the UK in the queue and the UK should get their order fulfilled first, but the nub of the situation is that there should be a queue in the first place. Whose fault is it that there IS a queue?

[belton rover]

Glyn. I never mentioned Selby. I said ‘anyone’. I never said whether I agreed with him or you or anyone else.
I’m entitled to observe, and read and quietly come to my own conclusions. My conclusion is that whenever anyone tries to offer a Brexit benefit, they are shot down.
It seems to me that your obsession with Selby has spilled over to my post.
As for ‘not even me’ nailing my colours to his mast’ - what on earth does that mean?
For what it’s worth, I don’t think I’ve ever had a direct conversation with Selby, for or against anything (though I’d be happy to be corrected on that).

I do enjoy reading his pre match threads, though.

Surely you'd agree that any claims of Brexit benefits that weren't genuine should be challenged? That's only right.

Which goes back to - which genuine Brexit benefit in your opinion has been unfairly shot down though? You must have some in mind for you to have said that in the first place. No one else can decide what your opinion is, only you, so I'd be interested to know.

I never said any opinions had been unfairly shot down.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn. I never mentioned Selby. I said ‘anyone’. I never said whether I agreed with him or you or anyone else.
I’m entitled to observe, and read and quietly come to my own conclusions. My conclusion is that whenever anyone tries to offer a Brexit benefit, they are shot down.
It seems to me that your obsession with Selby has spilled over to my post.
As for ‘not even me’ nailing my colours to his mast’ - what on earth does that mean?
For what it’s worth, I don’t think I’ve ever had a direct conversation with Selby, for or against anything (though I’d be happy to be corrected on that).

I do enjoy reading his pre match threads, though.

Surely you'd agree that any claims of Brexit benefits that weren't genuine should be challenged? That's only right.

Which goes back to - which genuine Brexit benefit in your opinion has been unfairly shot down though? You must have some in mind for you to have said that in the first place. No one else can decide what your opinion is, only you, so I'd be interested to know.

I never said any opinions had been unfairly shot down.

So what are you moaning about? That opinions of benefits were challenged at all?

[Filo]

Glyn it's highly likely that AZ are meeting their obligations as their obligations to existing contracts should typically be met first, that would be reasonable of them and a good reason why they aren't obliged to meet the EU order.

You'd love criticising Boris if it was the other way around. The EU have massively got this wrong.  I think actually the EU is too big to cope with the individual member states requirements in this case. It just hasn't worked.

I'm with you on this BFYP. The UK has absolutely got the vaccine procurement right and the EU has been woeful. I heard an EU official the other day saying that it was important to them that they screwed the price down. That is beyond belief. They will need a billion vaccine does. If they save 5 Euros on each one, that is a pin prick compared to what they will lose by being even a week late in vaccinating.

Cheeky t**ts, AZ are supplying the vaccine at cost, as far as I’m concerned the EU are behind us in the queue, they ordered 3 months later than us, so one benefit of brexit is we didn’t join their procurement process

Whose fault is it that AstraZenica aren't fulfilling their contract - AstraZenica or the EU?

Yes, I agree that the EU are behind the UK in the queue and the UK should get their order fulfilled first, but the nub of the situation is that there should be a queue in the first place. Whose fault is it that there IS a queue?

You tell me, the fact of the matter is the EU has ballsed it up, now they want to be clever t**ts demanding supplies be diverted from the UK, for once our Govt has been in front of the curve on this, if they want to be clever t**ts let them have it, but not at cost

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn it's highly likely that AZ are meeting their obligations as their obligations to existing contracts should typically be met first, that would be reasonable of them and a good reason why they aren't obliged to meet the EU order.

You'd love criticising Boris if it was the other way around. The EU have massively got this wrong.  I think actually the EU is too big to cope with the individual member states requirements in this case. It just hasn't worked.

I'm with you on this BFYP. The UK has absolutely got the vaccine procurement right and the EU has been woeful. I heard an EU official the other day saying that it was important to them that they screwed the price down. That is beyond belief. They will need a billion vaccine does. If they save 5 Euros on each one, that is a pin prick compared to what they will lose by being even a week late in vaccinating.

Cheeky t**ts, AZ are supplying the vaccine at cost, as far as I’m concerned the EU are behind us in the queue, they ordered 3 months later than us, so one benefit of brexit is we didn’t join their procurement process

Whose fault is it that AstraZenica aren't fulfilling their contract - AstraZenica or the EU?

Yes, I agree that the EU are behind the UK in the queue and the UK should get their order fulfilled first, but the nub of the situation is that there should be a queue in the first place. Whose fault is it that there IS a queue?

You tell me, the fact of the matter is the EU has ballsed it up, now they want to be clever t**ts demanding supplies be diverted from the UK, for once our Govt has been in front of the curve on this, if they want to be clever t**ts let them have it, but not at cost

How have the EU ballsed it up?

I don't agree with them wanting vaccines that are already in the UK but I think they are well within their rights to refuse export licences for those already in the EU - because that's what I'd expect the UK to do if the situation was reversed.

PS If the contract was at cost price, then that's the supply price. That's just basic law.

[belton rover]

Glyn. I never mentioned Selby. I said ‘anyone’. I never said whether I agreed with him or you or anyone else.
I’m entitled to observe, and read and quietly come to my own conclusions. My conclusion is that whenever anyone tries to offer a Brexit benefit, they are shot down.
It seems to me that your obsession with Selby has spilled over to my post.
As for ‘not even me’ nailing my colours to his mast’ - what on earth does that mean?
For what it’s worth, I don’t think I’ve ever had a direct conversation with Selby, for or against anything (though I’d be happy to be corrected on that).

I do enjoy reading his pre match threads, though.

Surely you'd agree that any claims of Brexit benefits that weren't genuine should be challenged? That's only right.

Which goes back to - which genuine Brexit benefit in your opinion has been unfairly shot down though? You must have some in mind for you to have said that in the first place. No one else can decide what your opinion is, only you, so I'd be interested to know.

I never said any opinions had been unfairly shot down.

So what are you moaning about? That opinions of benefits were challenged at all?

I’m not moaning - just, as I keep saying, making an observation.
I think, in time, when the dust settles and we’ve begun to move away from ‘nailing colours’ to remain or leave, there will be lots of benefits. There will also be negatives. I hope and believe that, like most things, we will deal with the situation and make us leaving the EU a decision where, eventually, the good for our country outweighs the bad.
I’m not knowledgeable of the EU and our relationship enough to wade into the discussions just yet. I am also not directly affected by any short term, immediate issues resulting from Brexit. From a personal point of view, I can’t offer you any positives, but neither can I offer you any negatives.
So I read and observe and form an opinion.
Personally, I don’t think now is the time to have a ‘competition’ to see who is right. Which is why I struggle to see this thread as a genuine ‘let’s log the good stuff’, despite its creator’s assurances that it is.

[Filo]

29 days in to the Brexit agreement and the EU have invoked article 16 regarding the Northern Ireland protocol, effectivley placing a Land Border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, I’m starting to think that the EU are the flat track bully’s many said they were

[drfchound]

Filo, you must know that bullies always want to dominate everyone else.

[Filo]

Filo, you must know that bullies always want to dominate everyone else.

Not sure what you are alluding to there

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

29 days in to the Brexit agreement and the EU have invoked article 16 regarding the Northern Ireland protocol, effectivley placing a Land Border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, I’m starting to think that the EU are the flat track bully’s many said they were

I don't think they are and it's good to see Ireland object to it as this move benefits nobody.

It is a political move to create noise and override what a mess the EU has made of something that is fundamental to their political reasoning.

It's quite a test of the agreement as obviously it could see the UK trigger a dispute mechanism and we know how much the EU believes in not breaking any agreements and treaties.

Perhaps Gina miller will be interested in this one....

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ridiculous thing for the EU to do. And dangerous. I suspect there will be some serious arm twisting from Biden this weekend.

[Filo]

Well apparently a vital ingredient for the Pzifer vaccine  is made at Croda in the UK, maybe a UK embargo stopping that ingredient being exported might bring them to their senses. Johnson should be onto his Irish counterpart explaining it’s the EU that have thrown Ireland under the bus

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well apparently a vital ingredient for the Pzifer vaccine  is made at Croda in the UK, maybe a UK embargo stopping that ingredient being exported might bring them to their senses. Johnson should be onto his Irish counterpart explaining it’s the EU that have thrown Ireland under the bus

What if Pfizer then stopped production of it completely as a protest?

[Filo]

Well apparently a vital ingredient for the Pzifer vaccine  is made at Croda in the UK, maybe a UK embargo stopping that ingredient being exported might bring them to their senses. Johnson should be onto his Irish counterpart explaining it’s the EU that have thrown Ireland under the bus

What if Pfizer then stopped production of it completely as a protest?

Well they would have to stop production of it if they haven’t got the ingredient won’t they, the UK has four vaccines at its disposal, the EU were slow to act and they are trying to cover their backs, but they’ve probably pissed off a lot of Countries, including those in the 27, they invoked article 16 of the protocol without even consulting Ireland, what a kick in the teeth that must be for Ireland

[selby]

  Glyn, wow  plenty of gob wide open there, have you got an itch?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Stupid decision but quickly corrected. Doesn't make the original decision any less stupid though.

[tyke1962]

Stupid decision but quickly corrected. Doesn't make the original decision any less stupid though.

Natural instincts from the outset is how I see it .

[wilts rover]

Not really up on the details of this Article 16 story, but why does the UK want the EU to supply vaccine to NI? I thought the UK was the one with the vaccine - so why are we demading the EU supply vaccine to part of it?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts. It was the symbolic aspect. The totally over the top action in triggering A16, which is supposed to be invoked only in the direst of circumstances. It was triggered as part of the EU policy of preventing frictionless export of EU-produced vaccines. That policy in itself is very worrying and feels like a populist response to a situation they seem to have managed very badly. But invoking A16 as part of that was beyond stupid. Because it has stoked up anger on BOTH sides of the sectarian divide in Northern Ireland. And doing it without informing either the Irish or British Govts was pretty much beyond belief.

I HOPE this was a jobsworth official implementing policy as they saw fit. If it was a political decision from higher up, it is very worrying.

[Filo]

Wilts. It was the symbolic aspect. The totally over the top action in triggering A16, which is supposed to be invoked only in the forest of circumstances. It was triggered as part of the EU policy of preventing frictionless export of EU-produced vaccines. That policy in itself is very worrying and feels like a populist response to a situation they seem to have managed very badly. But invoking A16 as part of that was beyond stupid. Because it has stoked up anger on BOTH sides of the sectarian divide in Northern Ireland. And doing it with informing either the Irish or British Govts was pretty much beyond belief.

I HOPE this was a jobsworth official implementing policy as they saw fit. If it was a political decision from higher up, it is very worrying.

You do mean “without informing” make no mistake it was Political, the commisions Health minister has been making those noises all week

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo. Yes I do. Corrected now.

[selby]

  It's nobody's fault that there is a waiting list for the vaccine, every vaccine that has been developed has been done so in record time, but the supply requirements are so vast, and wanted so quickly it is impossible to meet everyone's requirements.
  Sky news had a German expert on and he was very complementary at the UK's response building up a vaccine industry that didn't exist six months ago helped by direct government financial help.
  Hopefully quite quickly other countries and companies can replicate the build up of manufacturing and alleviate the problem quickly, that is what governments and companies should be putting their efforts in in a joint planned effort, not seeing it as a badge to be worn at other countries expense.
  Then the world has a chance to go forward again into something like normality.

[Not Now Kato]

Is Gove telling the truth for the first time in his political career?
 
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/michael-gove-admits-that-post-brexit-trade-issues-in-northern-ireland-are-not-teething-problems
 
Or just stabbing Coco The Clown in the back already?

[selby]

  It's hurting Eire Kato, I can see them pulling out of that s**t soon. especially when they get hit for higher and higher contributions  now they are in negative territory and the Euro valuation is starting to slide.

[wilts rover]

Lucky its not hurting us at all and just Eire eh Selby.

In unrealted news there have been terrorist threats to staff at NI ports and ferry companies have moved their larger vessels from the Irish Sea to the new Ireland cross-channel routes.

[selby]

  Wilts, we are their biggest market, Eires and the EU  part of that market will be else where as time goes by as our trade with the world will.
  The illegal part of the Eire to Nortern Ireland business unhindered by checks up to now, but now a problem  will hurt the people of Eire much more than the legal business which in value compared to illegal arms and drugs is a drop in the ocean.

[Not Now Kato]

  Wilts, we are their biggest market, Eires and the EU  part of that market will be else where as time goes by as our trade with the world will.
  The illegal part of the Eire to Nortern Ireland business unhindered by checks up to now, but now a problem  will hurt the people of Eire much more than the legal business which in value compared to illegal arms and drugs is a drop in the ocean.

You really don't understand what being a 3rd country means, do you selby?