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Something else to bear in mind.When we won this division in 03/04, at a time when we were full of drive and optimism, our average attendance was under 7000.We've topped that this year, even though we've been in the bottom 6 for the majority of the season.Plus, in 03/04, we had a lot of local derbies. Hull, Huddersfield, Scunthorpe, Mansfield, Lincoln, York. Nothing like that this year. EDIT. On second thoughts, I'm maybe overplaying this a bit. I was only thinking of Bradford and Mansfield. I forgot Notts C, Grimsby, Stockport and Wrexham all bringing good away followings.I know the counter argument. That was in OBV. But that's part of the point. Over the last decade and a half, we've had a generation of new supporters who have joined us in a modern stadium, with, generally, decent, successful, high-ish level football being served up. That's a generation that is secured for the long haul, whereas when we last made the Championship, we were still coming out of 50 years of failure and low interest in the town.Note that, even when we spent nearly all of 16/17 in the top 5 of this division, we only just topped 6000 as an average.This year's, and even last year's attendances indicate that something has changed. There's a bigger bedrock of loyal fans than we've had in my lifetime now. I suspect that if we did become established in the Championship (big if) we'd be selling out the home tickets pretty much every week. Worth pondering in terms of what the potential fanbase now is.
It does feel a bit different this time for some reason that I can't quite put my finger on, and it's not just because we're doing well. There seems to be a genuine ground swell of interest in the club across the city. I feel were going to see attendances increasing quite regularly. Whether that justifies expanding the stadium, time will tell.
Quote from: WheatleyRover on May 07, 2024, 08:28:25 pmFor my understanding the original design images showed the East Stand as a two tier stand, had a floating roof. Then went for a cheaper build, I'm sure the sign outside the ground when it was being built where the xp school now is said it was expandable to 20k.The pins are a myth. There's no hidden footings beyond the current permiter. The design which was very much similar to the KC stadium, would indeed have had two tiers on one side, with scope to add a second tier on the opposite side. Unfortunately, due to delays including 'Greater crested newt gate', the costs for steel had risen significantly, so the choice was to either go back to the council cabinet to seek approval for the additional costs (Not certain that would have been approved) or take the original budget and compromise on the build, so we ended up going back to the architects to redesign to what we have now. I think the original capacity was around 18,500 with scope to increase to around 21,000. The footings for the current stadium are different to what the original would have been, so no provision was made for expansion. Yes, we could expand it, but like anything else, it's at what cost. Being totally honest, hindsight has proven the stadium we ended up with has suited us better with more modest capacity whilst still giving us access to other showcase matches and events.
For my understanding the original design images showed the East Stand as a two tier stand, had a floating roof. Then went for a cheaper build, I'm sure the sign outside the ground when it was being built where the xp school now is said it was expandable to 20k.
Quote from: TonySoprano on May 07, 2024, 11:22:28 pmQuote from: Chris Black come back on May 07, 2024, 11:13:09 pmQuote from: Campsall rover on May 07, 2024, 10:57:36 pmQuote from: Chris Black come back on May 07, 2024, 10:49:04 pmThey are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500. Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week. In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:2008/9 - ave gates of 10,9642009/10 - ave gates of 10,9922010/11 - ave gates of 10,2582011/12 - ave gates of 9,3412013/14 - ave gates of 9,110Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.08/09 was 11964That’s correct, it was 11,964. Even though that was for several months a very poor season, and we ended in a lower position than the next season, being back at that level for first time in 50 years probably inflated gates artificially. The following season 09/10 was a better one in terms of points and league placing and we had Billy Sharp, yet gates dropped off by 1,000.
Quote from: Chris Black come back on May 07, 2024, 11:13:09 pmQuote from: Campsall rover on May 07, 2024, 10:57:36 pmQuote from: Chris Black come back on May 07, 2024, 10:49:04 pmThey are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500. Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week. In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:2008/9 - ave gates of 10,9642009/10 - ave gates of 10,9922010/11 - ave gates of 10,2582011/12 - ave gates of 9,3412013/14 - ave gates of 9,110Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.08/09 was 11964
Quote from: Campsall rover on May 07, 2024, 10:57:36 pmQuote from: Chris Black come back on May 07, 2024, 10:49:04 pmThey are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500. Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week. In living memory we have had five seasons in the Championship:2008/9 - ave gates of 10,9642009/10 - ave gates of 10,9922010/11 - ave gates of 10,2582011/12 - ave gates of 9,3412013/14 - ave gates of 9,110Little evidence we can turn out 12,000 plus gates.
Quote from: Chris Black come back on May 07, 2024, 10:49:04 pmThey are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500. Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.Think with GM at the helm we would ave 12.000+ assuming we were not losing every week.
They are proper shit I know but Rotherham have been getting average gates of 10,500 this season. Their last three seasons in the Championship have been between 9,800 and 10,500. Would we get much more at that level? Building a new stand is not going to be required for probably another generation at least barring any oil money or gormless Hollywood types.
Quote from: DonnyBazR0ver on May 07, 2024, 10:34:38 pmQuote from: WheatleyRover on May 07, 2024, 08:28:25 pmFor my understanding the original design images showed the East Stand as a two tier stand, had a floating roof. Then went for a cheaper build, I'm sure the sign outside the ground when it was being built where the xp school now is said it was expandable to 20k.The pins are a myth. There's no hidden footings beyond the current permiter. The design which was very much similar to the KC stadium, would indeed have had two tiers on one side, with scope to add a second tier on the opposite side. Unfortunately, due to delays including 'Greater crested newt gate', the costs for steel had risen significantly, so the choice was to either go back to the council cabinet to seek approval for the additional costs (Not certain that would have been approved) or take the original budget and compromise on the build, so we ended up going back to the architects to redesign to what we have now. I think the original capacity was around 18,500 with scope to increase to around 21,000. The footings for the current stadium are different to what the original would have been, so no provision was made for expansion. Yes, we could expand it, but like anything else, it's at what cost. Being totally honest, hindsight has proven the stadium we ended up with has suited us better with more modest capacity whilst still giving us access to other showcase matches and events. I didn't mention anything about pins, I'm stating what the construction sign said outside the ground when it was being built, it said expandable to 20,000.
Quote from: Campsall rover on May 07, 2024, 10:55:00 pmOur section of the North stand is fully sold out as of about 40 mins ago.Don’t know how much segregation there is but it should be over 14.000 gate. Possibly 14.500 assuming Crewe have sold all their 1.589 seats, which they may not have?Ok Let's try and work this out. Max capacity is 14978 I think. We lose a couple of hundred in the South to facilitate unreserved seating. We lose a chunk for segregation. Crewe are in an area of the North that can accommodate @ 2,200 so that's 600 empty although some of that might be the buffer zone for segregation. Call it 300 for segregation then plus the other block with the seat backs missing @250? I reckon 1,100 short of capacity so 13878 of which 1589 Crewe = 12,289 Rovers fans!! Can we be louder than the Barrow game? Have I missed owt?
Our section of the North stand is fully sold out as of about 40 mins ago.Don’t know how much segregation there is but it should be over 14.000 gate. Possibly 14.500 assuming Crewe have sold all their 1.589 seats, which they may not have?
The fact we're going to be comfortably beating the Charlton home leg attendance is pretty interesting. That was a semi final in the division above against a much bigger club. Has the fan base grown over the last 5 years? I do agree though there seems to be a real buzz about it at the minute. It's great. Keep McCann and we could be in for an exciting rise.
Could we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?
Quote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.
Quote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:00:44 amQuote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.A proper safe standing setup is very expensive. Manchester City were going to implement it on their new north stand development but scrapped it due to lack of demand.
Quote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:00:44 amQuote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ? Sorry if I'm being daft. I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway.
Which screen doesn’t work? The big one?? It does doesn’t it? Or are you on about for replays?
Quote from: GazLaz on May 08, 2024, 09:50:15 amWhich screen doesn’t work? The big one?? It does doesn’t it? Or are you on about for replays?Yeah doesn’t show replays or highlights. I know it still advertises things, but surely its main purpose is to provide replays of key events to the fans. What’s the point of having it otherwise?
Quote from: TonySoprano on May 08, 2024, 10:17:45 amQuote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:00:44 amQuote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ? Sorry if I'm being daft. I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway. Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.
Doesn’t show highlights or replays. Loads and loads of adverts though!
Quote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:56:57 amQuote from: TonySoprano on May 08, 2024, 10:17:45 amQuote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:00:44 amQuote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ? Sorry if I'm being daft. I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway. Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.As you'll remember from previous exchanges, I'm sceptical that this increase would be achievable simply. Apart from the basic area of terrace (which I don't think works - you were going to send me some calculations from the architect who was advising you years ago but I never got them), there's the issues of ingress and egress rates which I think would be very strained with the current set up if we increased the West stand capacity by 70%.I'd be delighted to be wrong about this - these are mainly hunches from my own professional background in this area.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 08, 2024, 11:43:54 amQuote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:56:57 amQuote from: TonySoprano on May 08, 2024, 10:17:45 amQuote from: silent majority on May 08, 2024, 10:00:44 amQuote from: The Beast on May 07, 2024, 11:48:07 pmCould we increase the capacity if we could make the South Stand ‘safe standing’?Yes you could.But it would depend on how its done as there isn't a one size fits all solution.You could introduce safe standing tomorrow by just inserting extra rails above the seat backs, but that wouldn't increase the capacity. It would however impact safety and atmosphere which was Nudga's point.You could also replace the existing seating with rail seats, again atmosphere and safety would see benefits, although that would come at a cost.If you wanted to increase that capacity you would have to remove the seats and install an extra half step between the existing rows and then install rails to provide extra safety. Not cheap, but would increase capacity in that area by a factor of 0.7. You would also have to account for the loss of permanent seating and the impact that would have on other sports and events in the stadium itself.Interesting, when you say 0.7 . Does that mean 70% ? Sorry if I'm being daft. I doubt it would adversely affect other events at the stadium, its not like anything else sells all the seats anyway. Yes, 70%, depending on the depth of the intermediate step.As you'll remember from previous exchanges, I'm sceptical that this increase would be achievable simply. Apart from the basic area of terrace (which I don't think works - you were going to send me some calculations from the architect who was advising you years ago but I never got them), there's the issues of ingress and egress rates which I think would be very strained with the current set up if we increased the West stand capacity by 70%.I'd be delighted to be wrong about this - these are mainly hunches from my own professional background in this area.Then there’s the infrastructure toilets, catering etc. it won’t happen in our life time will it.
On tours of the ground you're told the expansion can happen in the voids behind the back of the North and South stands. The corrugated metal sheet, where flags and advertising hang, hides the steels that hold the concrete for the seats. A few extra rows can be added there. Is this true?