Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: deebee on December 02, 2021, 04:04:02 pm
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Just wait and see. Could also have Williams on the bench. Could even promote the odd 18 year old to the first team as they are doing so well.
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If you think Bogle's the saviour our season is f**ked
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I'd be surprised if he's anywhere near match fit.
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Hope not
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I’d play him. Ok he’s not the saviour or anything like that but you’d think he’d be fired up to prove a point we know he can be a handful. If he can’t get fired up then it’ll prove Wellens was right.
We all know long term he ain’t the answer but between now and Jan if he’s got a bit of fight in him he could make a difference
Williams is rubbish even Moore didn’t bother with him think there’s no hope with that one.
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Just wait and see. Could also have Williams on the bench. Could even promote the odd 18 year old to the first team as they are doing so well.
I know I’ll get criticised for this but I think some people think we’ve got Chelsea’s youth team or somet. We need big horrible blokes who shave 3 times a day and have muscles on their spit, not more 8 stone kids, we’re getting bullied twice a week, the club is haemorrhaging dinner money!
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I'd put Bogle on the bench but the U-18's are probably at a better standard than Williams
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I'd like to see him straight back in the team - and not because he's our saviour but because he's our best centre forward at the club (aside Fej)
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Well he’s scored at league 2 level, he’s got to be more of a handful than Cukur. It’d be the ideal opportunity to answer his critics, if you give him half hour and he doesn’t run every ball down you know he’s not got it in him.
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Bogle is awful. I will be amazed if he plays on Saturday.
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Bogle is awful. I will be amazed if he plays on Saturday.
Yes he is,but is he more awful tha Cukur?
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Some short memories about past games this season.
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I see no reason not to play him. We'll soon see if he's been tossing it off instead of keeping himself fit.
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I'd be surprised if he's anywhere near match fit.
well the rest of them are blowing out of there arses after 60 minutes so he will not be far behind
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I'd like to see him straight back in the team - and not because he's our saviour but because he's our best centre forward at the club (aside Fej)
Bogle is not a better striker than dodoo,
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Wait for the start of We are starting with a clean sheet announcement
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If he does, and he puts in a performance, then it shows he's was conning us at the time. There were aspects of his game I liked but, time after time he became as mobile as a block of cement.
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I'd like to see him straight back in the team - and not because he's our saviour but because he's our best centre forward at the club (aside Fej)
Bogle is not a better striker than dodoo,
but dodoo is a winger and playe better out wide than down the middle , if Bogle does play down the middle it will be better than what we have
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Give him a chance
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How exciting, the prospect of Ed Williams and Omar Bogle.
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Whats the betting with our recent luck Bogle comes on and rather than prove the previous managment wrong either gets sent off or does what we all expect he will do?
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None the players will be shite now or get stick Richies gone if they fail to work there socks off it will be overlooked.
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He's better than Cukur though.
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How exciting, the prospect of Ed Williams and Omar Bogle.
I'm going extra early, folk'll be queueing halfway around the lake to get in.
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Sod Bogle. Waste of time. Play someone who wants to play.
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How exciting, the prospect of Ed Williams and Omar Bogle.
I'm going extra early, folk'll be queueing halfway around the lake to get in.
Laughing emoji.
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If Bogle play I reckon plenty of our fans will be booing him straight away.
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I%u2019d play him. Ok he%u2019s not the saviour or anything like that but you%u2019d think he%u2019d be fired up to prove a point we know he can be a handful. If he can%u2019t get fired up then it%u2019ll prove Wellens was right.
We all know long term he ain%u2019t the answer but between now and Jan if he%u2019s got a bit of fight in him he could make a difference
Williams is rubbish even Moore didn%u2019t bother with him think there%u2019s no hope with that one.
Why was Bogle not fired up when the season was about to start. If he cannot be arsed then I think he will still be the same now. He conned DM into a good contract or are they best buddies.
I do not want to see him in a Rovers shirt again. It is players like him that have dragged the standard downwards. Not just talking ability here I am talking attitude.
We need all the players playing for the shirt and a unified dressing room.
RW was right to do what he did. We do not need bad apples around the club.
If any of you saw him at Harrogate then you would know what I am talking about. RW gave him the chance and he threw it back in his face.
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I bet the new manager gets rid of him the first chance he gets.
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They should both be in the squad, it’s a new start for them. The previous managers opinion doesn’t matter. It’s more likely also if it doesn’t work out for both ,that other teams will be more likely to want them if they are playing.
They must be really bad if not considered for the squad, the way the team has been playing . I know it was supposed to be for other unknown reasons as well but they can’t do much worse than we’ve seen so far.
The players as well as the manager haven’t done themselves justice, I think they could have done a lot better for the club than they have. It’s like some downed tools because of a dislike for the manager, we don’t want players like that at the club.
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Re your final paragraph Sammy: you mean like Bogle??
Bob
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Not match fit says G Mc
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I%u2019d play him. Ok he%u2019s not the saviour or anything like that but you%u2019d think he%u2019d be fired up to prove a point we know he can be a handful. If he can%u2019t get fired up then it%u2019ll prove Wellens was right.
We all know long term he ain%u2019t the answer but between now and Jan if he%u2019s got a bit of fight in him he could make a difference
Williams is rubbish even Moore didn%u2019t bother with him think there%u2019s no hope with that one.
Why was Bogle not fired up when the season was about to start. If he cannot be arsed then I think he will still be the same now. He conned DM into a good contract or are they best buddies.
I do not want to see him in a Rovers shirt again. It is players like him that have dragged the standard downwards. Not just talking ability here I am talking attitude.
We need all the players playing for the shirt and a unified dressing room.
RW was right to do what he did. We do not need bad apples around the club.
If any of you saw him at Harrogate then you would know what I am talking about. RW gave him the chance and he threw it back in his face.
I agree he needs to go and I’m not bothered Wellens froze him out really. But now is a chance to get something out of him. Desperate times and all that.
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Trained with the youth team since left out. The meeting on Monday will discuss both of them according to MccSheffrey along with other players
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If GMcS says he's not match fit then he would be even worse than when he last played!
Anyone care to remind us what he brought to the team alongside his sparkling atitude.
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If GMcS says he's not match fit then he would be even worse than when he last played!
Anyone care to remind us what he brought to the team alongside his sparkling atitude.
Danum I’m not sure it’s about Match fitness he said they will be discussed in the meeting on Monday along with other things.
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If GMcS says he's not match fit then he would be even worse than when he last played!
Anyone care to remind us what he brought to the team alongside his sparkling atitude.
Danum I’m not sure it’s about Match fitness he said they will be discussed in the meeting on Monday along with other things.
Well unless he's been moonlighting for Melchester United i think that covers the match fitness section. Next.
Going to be a short meeting.
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It’s an impossibility for him to be match fit as we haven’t got a team for him to play in, hence he’s played no matches.
:chair:
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Was he match fit at all?
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If GMcS says he's not match fit then he would be even worse than when he last played!
Anyone care to remind us what he brought to the team alongside his sparkling atitude.
Danum I’m not sure it’s about Match fitness he said they will be discussed in the meeting on Monday along with other things.
Well unless he's been moonlighting for Melchester United i think that covers the match fitness section. Next.
Going to be a short meeting.
The meeting is with hierarchy (his words) to discuss all players Bogle and Williams being part of it.
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So much for Bogle and Williams being bad influences.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/will-role-models-omar-bogle-and-ed-williams-return-to-doncaster-rovers-first-team-squad-3482931
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Who said Bogle and Williams were bad influences?
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You haven't been paying attention BB. Several people in here have just accepted it as a given, because, why else would Wellens have sidelined them?
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I thought he sidelined Bogle because he didn't play as instructed, therefore was detrimental to the team. I don't know about Williams other than not impressing.
I certainly can't have been paying attention to anyone of any importance who has said they were a bad influence. Perhaps you can show me?
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The truth is , we may never know exactly what has gone off between bogle and Wellens and the rest of the playing staff.
When DM left, it may be the case that Bogle threw his dummy out. We may never know without admissions from the player himself or those close to him.
His footballing ability has clearly been questioned as RW went very public with it.
Since the very public sidelining , bogle has clearly had a choice in how he conducts himself. It is positive that he has engaged well with the youth team. Maybe he had his eye on a future after drfc and thought it was best he continued in a positive vein.
If he were to return to the first team, and play well/ score, then it will go some way to vindicate the departure of RW.
We shall see.
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I didn't say "anyone of importance" BB. I was talking about opinions in here. I'm sure you can find examples for yourself.
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No, sorry, can't find any.
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NR.
I still don't get why there's this speculation about Bogle's attitude.
Wellens clearly and unambiguously criticised his ability and his decision not to leave. It would be strange for him to have done that, but refrained from criticising Bogle's attitude if there was a problem with that.
Occam's Razor suggests a much simpler reason for the sidelining. Wellens was pissed off with the pair of them for not leaving and decided to exclude them. It fits with what we know of the facts and it doesn't need any other surmises about what might or might not have happened.
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No, sorry, can't find any.
Try a bit harder then. You'll get there in the end.
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The thing is BST, just like the way your political mind works, you cannot and will not accept anyone else's opinion that goes against yours. Wellens was appointed manager, against your wishes, and ever since you have trawled for reasons to prove you were right.
Sad really, and what makes it sadder is you having to resort to defending a substandard player who is likely to not get any better, in an attempt at criticising Wellens.
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Bogles decision to stay at the club, under contract, which I fully accept and understand was clearly his. And perhaps that of his agent.
Wellens tried to move him on, unsuccessfully.
Bogles decision is inextricably linked to his attitude at that time. By definition.
I’m not using attitude in a negative way, purely objectively.
Our own decisions are influenced by our own attitudes. ( amongst other things)
Attitude - a settled way of thinking or feeling about something
Bogles “attitude” was in direct conflict with Wellens’. Bogle did not feel it was right to move on to another club. Even if it meant he did not play first team football.
That’s not speculation or surmising.
That’s fact.
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The thing is BST, just like the way your political mind works, you cannot and will not accept anyone else's opinion that goes against yours. Wellens was appointed manager, against your wishes, and ever since you have trawled for reasons to prove you were right.
Sad really, and what makes it sadder is you having to resort to defending a substandard player who is likely to not get any better, in an attempt at criticising Wellens.
Perhaps you could leave your obsession with a poster in off topic where you have spoiled it for everyone else by being Tommy Opposite
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Bogle and Wellens may well have had a fall out but now RW has gone there is a clean slate for OB and if he wants to, he can try to resurrect his career.
For his and our sake, I hope he pulls it off.
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Filo. Have you actually done any research on what you have just said? Are you actually saying that I disagree with BST more than he disagrees with me?
All the evidence is in the history of this forum.
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I thought he sidelined Bogle because he didn't play as instructed, therefore was detrimental to the team. I don't know about Williams other than not impressing.
I certainly can't have been paying attention to anyone of any importance who has said they were a bad influence. Perhaps you can show me?
but Wellens had since called out all the other players, he signed most of them, for not playing to instruction also. He didn’t banish them to the sidelines. I think it says more about Wellens than Bogle to me.
The bloke was a toxic bully and we are most definitely best rid of him.
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Your obsession with how you think I think is leading you astray yet again BB.
My point is that there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that Bogle and Williams have been a bad influence at the club. Yet several people on here have jumped to the conclusion that they must have been, in order to explain Wellens's decision.
Regarding Wellens, I wanted him to succeed from the off, as of course I want every Rovers manager to succeed. But I had doubts about his suitability as should anyone who remembered him refusing to play for the club at the end of his time here. The way he spun that in his interview with Hoden about the Bogle situation set massive alarm bells ringing for me. He put himself forward as a decent old pro who had reached the end of the line and made the right decision for all concerned by leaving. He didn't mention the fact that a few weeks earlier, he had refused to play for the club, leading as straight a pro as Rob Jones to say that it was up to Wellens to decide if he wanted to play for the club, and to prove himself a positive influence. That was disingenuous at best and it did leave me massively questioning Wellens's credibility.
As I say, I very much wanted him to be a resounding success. (Shouldn't really need to say that of course, but the way this place is these days...) But he wasn't. And given how things have planned out, I won't hide the fact I'm relieved he's gone and we can start afresh.
Finally, I have no axe to grind for Bogle. He's a poor player. He just happens to be better than the alternatives that Wellens signed. As ever, I want the best for the Rovers, and I don't see how we are getting the best by playing kids who are several levels below the standard required, while excluding a player who, however limited, is better than them.
Clear enough for you now?
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I thought he sidelined Bogle because he didn't play as instructed, therefore was detrimental to the team. I don't know about Williams other than not impressing.
I certainly can't have been paying attention to anyone of any importance who has said they were a bad influence. Perhaps you can show me?
but Wellens had since called out all the other players, he signed most of them, for not playing to instruction also. He didn’t banish them to the sidelines. I think it says more about Wellens than Bogle to me.
The bloke was a toxic bully and we are most definitely best rid of him.
He hasn't called out ALL the other players, and he could hardly have banished all of them if he had! I'm not aware of Wellens criticising any of the senior players, other than Bogle, who maybe he thought should have known better.
We don't really know what has happened behind the scenes, and the point I am making is that to come to a conclusion that suits an agenda is the wrong way to go about it.
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BB he had a public dig at Taylor saying he should be playing through the pain. That on top of some of the abuse the players got from the sidelines I really felt for AJ one game
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Well all I can say is Bogles attitude did not look good in the Pre season friendly at Harrogate.
He was not making the runs that RW was screaming at him to make.
He lost patience with him that day and it has been down hill between the 2 of them from then onwards it would seem.
RW was also screaming at Louis Jones regarding distribution throughout the match also.
Simon Weaver was actually looking a bit embarrassed by Wellens antics on the touch line.
Nothing changed once the season got underway regarding the way RW behaved.
He was hindering the players performance not helping imo.
He was almost a clone of Fatty Evans with his antics and bad language.
No I was delighted when he got the job but I was even more delighted when he got the sack.
He had little or no man management skills from what i perceive.
He had the board fooled and most of us. Massive mistake in hindsight.
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They were obviously sidelined to (in RWs mind) increase the chances of them leaving in January thus freeing up funds. I’m pretty sure he never said they were bad influences.
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Your obsession with how you think I think is leading you astray yet again BB.
My point is that there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that Bogle and Williams have been a bad influence at the club. Yet several people on here have jumped to the conclusion that they must have been, in order to explain Wellens's decision.
Regarding Wellens, I wanted him to succeed from the off, as of course I want every Rovers manager to succeed. But I had doubts about his suitability as should anyone who remembered him refusing to play for the club at the end of his time here. The way he spun that in his interview with Hoden about the Bogle situation set massive alarm bells ringing for me. He put himself forward as a decent old pro who had reached the end of the line and made the right decision for all concerned by leaving. He didn't mention the fact that a few weeks earlier, he had refused to play for the club, leading as straight a pro as Rob Jones to say that it was up to Wellens to decide if he wanted to play for the club, and to prove himself a positive influence. That was disingenuous at best and it did leave me massively questioning Wellens's credibility.
As I say, I very much wanted him to be a resounding success. (Shouldn't really need to say that of course, but the way this place is these days...) But he wasn't. And given how things have planned out, I won't hide the fact I'm relieved he's gone and we can start afresh.
Finally, I have no axe to grind for Bogle. He's a poor player. He just happens to be better than the alternatives that Wellens signed. As ever, I want the best for the Rovers, and I don't see how we are getting the best by playing kids who are several levels below the standard required, while excluding a player who, however limited, is better than them.
Clear enough for you now?
BST, anyone who suggested Bogle and Williams was a bad influence would surely have considered how daft it would have been to put such players with the youngsters. As I understand it with the information I've read, is that Bogle was put in with the youngsters because he didn't follow playing instructions. Maybe he wasn't capable of following them, I don't know, but I came to the conclusion he was removed from the first-team squad because he was detrimental to its progress.
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This forum is becoming as toxic as everything else at the Club, it seems to me.
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AS.
I try to get involved in balanced discussion on here. But you are right, there are some long standing toxic relationships on here that degenerate almost every discussion to its base political level. With personal insults thrown in for good measure too.
Left v right
Brexit v remain
Vax v non vax
Tory v Labour.
There are possibly a dozen or so who should break off and form their own personal online battleground.
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Bogle and Wellens may well have had a fall out but now RW has gone there is a clean slate for OB and if he wants to, he can try to resurrect his career.
For his and our sake, I hope he pulls it off.
This. It really is all that needs to be said on the matter.
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Bogle and Wellens may well have had a fall out but now RW has gone there is a clean slate for OB and if he wants to, he can try to resurrect his career.
For his and our sake, I hope he pulls it off.
This. It really is all that needs to be said on the matter.
I am all for that. We need all bodies available. It’s a siege mentality that is needed. The team spirit needs to be spot on with the entire playing staff singing from the hymn sheet.
Bogle and Williams have the opportunity to prove most of us wrong. It’s up to them now, or they will be back playing in non league.
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They were obviously sidelined to (in RWs mind) increase the chances of them leaving in January thus freeing up funds. I’m pretty sure he never said they were bad influences.
Again, I personally never said that Wellens said they were bad influences. I said people in HERE said they were.
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Your obsession with how you think I think is leading you astray yet again BB.
My point is that there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that Bogle and Williams have been a bad influence at the club. Yet several people on here have jumped to the conclusion that they must have been, in order to explain Wellens's decision.
Regarding Wellens, I wanted him to succeed from the off, as of course I want every Rovers manager to succeed. But I had doubts about his suitability as should anyone who remembered him refusing to play for the club at the end of his time here. The way he spun that in his interview with Hoden about the Bogle situation set massive alarm bells ringing for me. He put himself forward as a decent old pro who had reached the end of the line and made the right decision for all concerned by leaving. He didn't mention the fact that a few weeks earlier, he had refused to play for the club, leading as straight a pro as Rob Jones to say that it was up to Wellens to decide if he wanted to play for the club, and to prove himself a positive influence. That was disingenuous at best and it did leave me massively questioning Wellens's credibility.
As I say, I very much wanted him to be a resounding success. (Shouldn't really need to say that of course, but the way this place is these days...) But he wasn't. And given how things have planned out, I won't hide the fact I'm relieved he's gone and we can start afresh.
Finally, I have no axe to grind for Bogle. He's a poor player. He just happens to be better than the alternatives that Wellens signed. As ever, I want the best for the Rovers, and I don't see how we are getting the best by playing kids who are several levels below the standard required, while excluding a player who, however limited, is better than them.
Clear enough for you now?
BST, anyone who suggested Bogle and Williams was a bad influence would surely have considered how daft it would have been to put such players with the youngsters. As I understand it with the information I've read, is that Bogle was put in with the youngsters because he didn't follow playing instructions. Maybe he wasn't capable of following them, I don't know, but I came to the conclusion he was removed from the first-team squad because he was detrimental to its progress.
BB. That's fine. You're perfectly at liberty to come to whatever conclusion you wish. My point was that SOME people in here (not you) had been assuming the two were bad influences. And according to McSheffrey, they haven't been.
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I think its perfectly possible for someone to be a bad influence in one group and not in another. Different circumstances cause people to behave differently.
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I’ll be honest I don’t remember people claiming they were bad influences either, but it’s obviously struck a chord somewhere so maybe best to find examples / name who it was to nip this in the bud.
For my part, I remember criticising Bogle’s social media content where he appeared to be making light of his ‘exile’ and the club that pays his wages. And I certainly backed the manager over two players that have produced almost nothing for us in their careers to date.
However the manager is gone now, and if the new manager wants to bring them back into fold then he (and by default they) will get my support.
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Your obsession with how you think I think is leading you astray yet again BB.
My point is that there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that Bogle and Williams have been a bad influence at the club. Yet several people on here have jumped to the conclusion that they must have been, in order to explain Wellens's decision.
Regarding Wellens, I wanted him to succeed from the off, as of course I want every Rovers manager to succeed. But I had doubts about his suitability as should anyone who remembered him refusing to play for the club at the end of his time here. The way he spun that in his interview with Hoden about the Bogle situation set massive alarm bells ringing for me. He put himself forward as a decent old pro who had reached the end of the line and made the right decision for all concerned by leaving. He didn't mention the fact that a few weeks earlier, he had refused to play for the club, leading as straight a pro as Rob Jones to say that it was up to Wellens to decide if he wanted to play for the club, and to prove himself a positive influence. That was disingenuous at best and it did leave me massively questioning Wellens's credibility.
As I say, I very much wanted him to be a resounding success. (Shouldn't really need to say that of course, but the way this place is these days...) But he wasn't. And given how things have planned out, I won't hide the fact I'm relieved he's gone and we can start afresh.
Finally, I have no axe to grind for Bogle. He's a poor player. He just happens to be better than the alternatives that Wellens signed. As ever, I want the best for the Rovers, and I don't see how we are getting the best by playing kids who are several levels below the standard required, while excluding a player who, however limited, is better than them.
Clear enough for you now?
BST, anyone who suggested Bogle and Williams was a bad influence would surely have considered how daft it would have been to put such players with the youngsters. As I understand it with the information I've read, is that Bogle was put in with the youngsters because he didn't follow playing instructions. Maybe he wasn't capable of following them, I don't know, but I came to the conclusion he was removed from the first-team squad because he was detrimental to its progress.
BB. That's fine. You're perfectly at liberty to come to whatever conclusion you wish. My point was that SOME people in here (not you) had been assuming the two were bad influences. And according to McSheffrey, they haven't been.
BST, perhaps there has been a misunderstanding here and I've misinterpreted your point. If so, I apologise.
Maybe I trusted the board too much regarding Wellens' appointment because if all the negativity about him is true then they have a hell of a lot to answer for in their decision to give him the job.
With that in mind, how can we trust them to make correct decisions in future?
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BB don’t beat yourself up about it he came across brilliantly in interviews and sold himself really well. I’ve set people on after a solid interview and references only for them to not get beyond their parole period.
I was totally onboard with the appointment and how he dealt with OB (not so much with Ed Williams) and backed him right up to the Burton game.
I can see there was probably more to the Bogle situation than met the eye
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I’ll be honest I don’t remember people claiming they were bad influences either, but it’s obviously struck a chord somewhere so maybe best to find examples / name who it was to nip this in the bud.
For my part, I remember criticising Bogle’s social media content where he appeared to be making light of his ‘exile’ and the club that pays his wages. And I certainly backed the manager over two players that have produced almost nothing for us in their careers to date.
However the manager is gone now, and if the new manager wants to bring them back into fold then he (and by default they) will get my support.
I posted something that said Bogle was a bad apple. Still stand by it. Like I just said someone can be an absolute shite stirrer in one group and nice as pie in another.....
Also I'm not really bothered what McSheffery says. I'd be more interested in what Tommy Rowe thinks. He's likely to be around the first team group a lot longer.
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Confirmed on football heaven both players will be part of tomorrow's squad.
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Under three managers Williams as never got a start. So let’s see he can get a start now while he’s here.
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Beggars can’t be choosers
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Under three managers Williams as never got a start. So let’s see he can get a start now while he’s here.
Probably both be on the bench due to match fitness
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And what will be the reaction of the fans if bogle misses a sitter
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And what will be the reaction of the fans if bogle misses a sitter
Astonishment that we created a clear cut chance.
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Managers don’t fancy players all the time and then new managers do fancy them.
Way people are talking on here you’d think it had never happened before
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I wonder if Gary mc is mates with RW.
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Think McSheffrey just wants to leave the next manager as many options as possible and if they want rid of Bogle then that's their choice but at least he's available if they want.