TO TAKE THE KNEE OR NOT TO TAKE THE KNEE

[Jonathan]

How has this been dragged into the usual nonsense around Marxism and politicising?

Could the England players and manager not have been any clearer? They’re NOT doing this as a political gesture, but as a collective message against inequality, discrimination and racism. That’s their choice and their explanation. Read it. Listen to it. Watch it. Then give up dragging politics into this, and give up with the Marxism angle. If you want a reason to be offended by this gesture then you’ll need to find another one, as the players taking the knee have explained that it’s NOT ABOUT THAT. It’s not your place to tell them that it is!

[RoverBB]

Anyway to get back to the original question, the clubs viewpoint is that we will not be taking the knee before games.

We will instead play an anti-discrimination message on the big screen before the game and the pre-match captains photograph will see the captains each hold on side of the “Rovers for All” flag that they had commissioned last year in association with us (Black Bank), The VSC and the Official Supporter’s Groups - Main and Retford Branch.

[DonnyOsmond]

Free healthcare for all is a concept that comes from Marxism too.

[wilts rover]

Thing is, Blm are a bat shit crazy Marxist organisation, and I think the club should distance itself from .

There are many other ways to campaign against racism without cowtowing to those lunatics .

So you even know what Marxism is ? It is essentially an economic therory if reducing the wealth gap between rich and poor. What on earth has this got to do with BLM beyond trying to achieve greater equality? You sound like the front page of the Daily Mail.

That all sounds nice and wooley .
But it's the methods of achieving this that Marxists advocate, that are unfeasible. 
Have a read about it, and some political views of the blm organisation.

Being anti racist and being part of blm are 2 very different things .

You really do not have a clue what you are on about. Read Das Kapital or Haralambos if you need it dumbing down before your go on your Marxists rants again. You’re about as informed in that subject as you are on oppression of black people. Boo all you want at least the rest of us will know who the thick, ignorant racists are we need to avoid.

Wow, your simply clueless and opposed to any viewpoint other than your own blinkered world view  .
Debating with people of your level of intelligence is almost impossible pointless, and counter productive .

I will say this though, Marxism hasn't worked anywhere, ever .....

That's because Marxism isn't a thing - its political theory to do with economic redistribution of wealth.

And has nothing whatsoever to do with racism or anti-racist gestures.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Anyway to get back to the original question, the clubs viewpoint is that we will not be taking the knee before games.

We will instead play an anti-discrimination message on the big screen before the game and the pre-match captains photograph will see the captains each hold on side of the “Rovers for All” flag that they had commissioned last year in association with us (Black Bank), The VSC and the Official Supporter’s Groups - Main and Retford Branch.

Not even Millwall fans could boo at that.

[Copps is Magic]

The standard of allowing people to have an enjoyable day at the football without having to put up with this toxic sideshow.

You know. You'd might even, somehow, even.... I don't know.... maybe... you could even one day have a point. IF what we were talking about was NOT players bending down for a few seconds.

That this minor act has such an imposition on YOUR life is THE thing here. It's obviously a dagger in your heart.

You could bite into your Pukka pie and look back up and it be over but for you the emotional distress is so much that you have to express yourself.

[Donnybob]

Brilliant. Players kneeling in a token gesture divides the fan base. Well done everyone involved.

Can someone tell me how this ends?

Smaller crowds? Violence? Fans booing fans?

Will it cure racism if it's done for 1 year? Or for 100 years? Will it change attitudes? Has it done, so far? Is it an effective protest? How do you measure its impact?

And when does it stop?

How about the players come out and kneel an hour before kick off, or maybe every 10 minutes for half an hour? Then those who support kneeling can get in early and admire it. Those who are neither bothered or actually against kneeling can arrive afterwards?

Don't knock this. It's a compromise that surely works.

What we have in this thread is the polarised extremes voicing off their entrenched opinions and attacking each other. It is not good for the club or the support base. No opinions are changed. Any impact kneeling had diminishes by the week to the point where it has a negative impact.

What was wrong with kick out racism badges? Armbands? Adverts in the programme? On the tv screen instead?

The anger amongst a lot of folk my age, and certainly my intelligence, is that we are being unfairly painted as racists, privileged white men and bigots when those who took to social media critical of penalty takers are far from exclusively from this group, indeed it is the young who appear to carry most of the responsibility for the terrible reactions.

So how about we stop being ageist unless you have actual facts to back up this slanderous talk. After all, who is being prejudiced now?

Kneeling has lost its impact. It is now a huge turn-off for many who see it as pointless posturing. We heard you first time! Don't confuse folk being polite and ambivalent as supporting your personal beliefs on whether taking the knee should continue in perpetuity.
Players are now stuck in a time warp, an impossible position due to peer pressure. It is interesting that black players are now saying enough.

So are more fans than you realise. Why are there only gestures for BLM? What about FGM? Uyghur Muslims? Climate change? Native Americans? Modern slavery? The homeless? Rape victims? Internet giants avoiding taxes in the countries they generate wealth?

If we are going to politicise football then why don't we do it intelligently and highlight a different issue each month?

Campaigns that benefit all. Let's end the discrimination. Let us support the whole picture. Or Let's kick politics out of sport completely.

[Chris the Rover]

Brilliant post Donnybob.

[Donny Viking]

I think we have all just demonstrated that taking the knee does make a difference - it might not solve the whole problem but we are all talking about racism on here and elsewhere, some are even challenging those morons that Boo etc.

Personally I think it's an excellent reminder that we are not treated equally in society, even though many of us live/work in a very diverse and fair environment and couldn't give a hoots about the colour of the next person skin, it's easy to forget that's not necessary a black (or other colour) person day to day experience. The abuse that players/individuals get on social media is embarrassing, never mind being abused in the street, targeted by police or simply being treated differently purely because the colour of their skin.

And for those that claim the political angle, take a look at yourself - do you really think the majority footballers have any interest or knowledge of the inner workings of politics. It's not about politics, it's not about BLM, it's about racism pure and simple. It might be unfortunate that the symbol is used by a political movement, but that is not what the players are using it for - seriously!!

In my own mind I do question some of the anti views about taking the knee - and is it more about that accepting racism exists in our society makes you feel uncomfortable and that you'd rather not be reminded of it?