Ryan on Yorkshire Radio

[The L J Monk]

I believe Blackpool's wage bill at least doubled in the first year they brought in a host of loans and short term signings. The fact they secured promotion meant they'd gambled and won. If it hadn't come off they'd have been in financial trouble. McKay's strategy is very different to what Blackpool did.

I'm interested in how a player like Chimbonda fits into this arrangement as well? He's a free agent on a short term deal, seemingly destined for Montreal in January. Where's our \"cut\" here?

[DearneValleyRover]

We aren't going to get loan players in to take up positions we have players for. We are going to cut the size of the squad by getting rid of players who aren't good enough at this level and most of you have been spouting this for a couple of years now, instead of replacing those players with better quality we cannot afford, loan players will be used. The reintroduction of the reservre team will allow the cream of the youth, benchwarmers and players returning from injury to get fit and give them game time. The youth will benefit as will our first 11 by playing alongside players who have played at a higher level. I don't see the risk in this as clearly we are heading for L1 with an unsustainable wage bill without it.

[The L J Monk]

We aren't going to get loan players in to take up positions we have players for.

I suppose we'll only know whether this is true in due course.

instead of replacing those players with better quality we cannot afford

This is assuming that better players are always unaffordable.

[Norfolk N Chance]

you have to think what the long standing players are thinking ie : stock ,copps oconnor !!!

Copps and JOC have been terrible this season - too be honest they have not taken their opportunity !

[DonnyOsmond]

I believe Blackpool's wage bill at least doubled in the first year they brought in a host of loans and short term signings. The fact they secured promotion meant they'd gambled and won. If it hadn't come off they'd have been in financial trouble. McKay's strategy is very different to what Blackpool did.

I'm interested in how a player like Chimbonda fits into this arrangement as well? He's a free agent on a short term deal, seemingly destined for Montreal in January. Where's our \"cut\" here?

Get a cut of agents fees?

[DonnyNoel]

It seems a bit of a gamble but I think the reasoning given by JR suggests its one we have to take. We came up with a Championship standard squad (or team at least) on an L1 budget and for whatever reason (some SODs fault, some just football being stupid) we now have a higher wage bill with a lower quality squad. When we first came up we were open minded that we may \"yo-yo\" for a while but now we've looked at it again I think most of us agree that relegation would be a huge step back.

If we need to be innovative to do this then lets do it. I would think most players outside the top 4 with ambitions of playing at the highest level see their current club as a stepping stone. As commented, it needs a strong man manager.

[RoversAlias]

I don't like this one bit. I've felt uneasy since the first rumblings of this McKay character came about and I now feel downright sick. They may have said that the big concern is the fans relation to the club and the squad if it's a team of mercenaries but it comes across to me like they don't really care. They acknowledge that that is a potential pitfall, but will push on and do this anyway.

Our great reputation as a nice club is going down the toilet, and I think some people may lose (or already have lost) sight of what going to football is all about. It isn't all about money, a soulless team and faceless success. I'd gladly take the next 20 years being a small club punching above our weight in this division or League One, going along as we were then get to the Premier League off the back of a selfish agent and a bunch of players who've come here for 3 months at a time to try and secure moves elsewhere.

[DearneValleyRover]

We aren't going to get loan players in to take up positions we have players for.

I suppose we'll only know whether this is true in due course.

instead of replacing those players with better quality we cannot afford

This is assuming that better players are always unaffordable.

In most cases they are and according to our wage bill they definately will be for us. I'm not talking about players with potential, we can't wait for those types at present but players who can give an injection of quality in the short term.

[sedwardsdrfc]

completley agree with donnynoel we went backwards after losing wellens green mills you can always replace these without doing something diffrent

[The L J Monk]

completley agree with donnynoel we went backwards after losing wellens green mills you can always replace these without doing something diffrent

You mean when we went on to finish in our highest position in the Championship?

[Wellred]

I don't like this one bit. I've felt uneasy since the first rumblings of this McKay character came about and I now feel downright sick. They may have said that the big concern is the fans relation to the club and the squad if it's a team of mercenaries but it comes across to me like they don't really care. They acknowledge that that is a potential pitfall, but will push on and do this anyway.

Our great reputation as a nice club is going down the toilet, and I think some people may lose (or already have lost) sight of what going to football is all about. It isn't all about money, a soulless team and faceless success. I'd gladly take the next 20 years being a small club punching above our weight in this division or League One, going along as we were then get to the Premier League off the back of a selfish agent and a bunch of players who've come here for 3 months at a time to try and secure moves elsewhere.

Hang on a minute. These players that are coming in for 3 months are being paid a quarter of what some of our existing players are being paid.
How is the agent selfish?
Who are the mercenaries?
I think you are living in a dream world. Our great reputation as a nice club is going down the toilet, and I think some people may lose (or already have lost) sight of what going to football is all about.

I think those days are long gone sadly!

[sedwardsdrfc]

ye that was the highest but you cant tell me the team from the 2nd year was all round better the only pleyer theat made a diffrence that season was having a goalscorer in sharp the rest of the team went backwards because most of the team from our highest finish are at the club now that was bottom of the pile

[Norfolk N Chance]

I don't like this one bit. I've felt uneasy since the first rumblings of this McKay character came about and I now feel downright sick. They may have said that the big concern is the fans relation to the club and the squad if it's a team of mercenaries but it comes across to me like they don't really care. They acknowledge that that is a potential pitfall, but will push on and do this anyway.

Our great reputation as a nice club is going down the toilet, and I think some people may lose (or already have lost) sight of what going to football is all about. It isn't all about money, a soulless team and faceless success. I'd gladly take the next 20 years being a small club punching above our weight in this division or League One, going along as we were then get to the Premier League off the back of a selfish agent and a bunch of players who've come here for 3 months at a time to try and secure moves elsewhere.

Hang on a minute. These players that are coming in for 3 months are being paid a quarter of what some of our existing players are being paid.
How is the agent selfish?
Who are the mercenaries?
I think you are living in a dream world. Our great reputation as a nice club is going down the toilet, and I think some people may lose (or already have lost) sight of what going to football is all about.


I think those days are long gone sadly!

Its all about winning ....lets get real the Coops / Stock and JOC love football not Rovers all this kissing the badge crap is b*llocks!

[jonnydog]

Willie has already had three clubs approach him this morning to do same with them but has turned them down. Comments in DM were tongue in cheek - he's committed to the club.



If this is true (and assuming the plan takes off big style and catapults us up the table), it wont be long till other clubs employ someone else to do the same for them and then wont we be back to square one?

Nevertheless, as long as it gets us safe for this season, hopefully brings in some cash, and (dare I say it) increase attendance and gets a new generation of fans in then it's all good baby!!



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[Superspy]

Well, even if I have some slight concerns about long term sustainability, what I will say is it's nice to get some clarity on the whole affair and a bit of transparency from the club. Well done JR and co from me with this one.

[MR A-Z]

I WAS ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS AFTER READING THE MAIL ARTICLE THIS MORNING, but I thought it over and I think it could work. I doubt that John Ryan would take such a risk without looking at every possible outcome and he would have Rovers best interests at heart.

Also I was disgusted with the SO'D sacking but would this plan really work with him at the reins? I doubt it. Saunders has the personality to control these \"superstars\" expected. BRING ON DIARRA!

[Rios]

Would clubs \"show-case\" their players if we dropped into League One? I'm not sure they would, so I'd be interested to see how this idea worked if we were to go down this year.

But, going back to my original query - let's use Tommy Spurr as an example. Assuming when he's fit again he'd like to play, Illunga would be keeping him out of the team. So he'd eventually want to leave. Then assume Illunga gets his big move at some point. Who's left? Another McKay fella to come straight in? Does he have a constant stream of decent left-backs? Apply the same logic to every position taken by a McKay player and I begin to question the sustainability of the club.

With regards to the Sharp point, no we cannot afford another. But neither could Scunny when they sold him. So they bought Martin Paterson. And then they bought Gary Hooper. And they kept turning a profit on these players. For a club with 5k crowds to have had two stints in the Championship and now comfortably sustain a League One club shows to me that the model works.

rtid88 - this is in no way, shape or form a Sean related argument. I'm not sure why you would seek to make it one.

Totally and utterly agree with that, that's how I thought we were being run.  The fear of being relegated back to our more natural level seems to have taken hold of the board, first resulting in big money signings like Sharp and now this \"strategy\".

Am I really the only one who'd prefer us to return to the model we had in the first (couple of) Championship seasons where the defecit was smaller (and covered by the benevolance of the board) and we sold players like Wellens and Mills in order to fund the gap?  Am I really the only one who doesn't see relegation and a clearing of the financial decks as the end of the world?  Am I really the only one, who having seen so called stars of other teams in our time in the championship, isn't wetting my pants at a couple of foreigners who are coming in for three or four games and pissing off again?  Am I the only one who thinks that Doncaster Rovers is better than being a shop window?  Am I the only one who doesn't believe that Saunders will have a free hand in team selection (ie picking a loan player over an established first teamer...how are they going to earn moves elsewhere if the established player is better than them and they can't get in the team)?

I know JR has done this with the best of intentions but I have to say I'm really disappointed.  This is my 20th season and it's a world away since that first game v Halifax.  There are people on this thread who are obviously geniunely excited about Chimbonda, Diarra and the numerous other show ponies who are about to trot around for a month to earn a move somewhere \"better\".  Me?  I've seen a lot of friends and people I knew in the first ten years melting away (after the Conf years, not before!) after becoming disillusioned with various aspects (ticket prices, the Keepmoat, etc).  I'm going to have to have a long hard think about how I spend my money and time and as I finally understand why.  If you find yourself questioning your love for your spouse then you really shouldn't be there at all.

[Viking Don]

Sounds like a no-lose situation to me. It works we survive on a small budget and maybe push for promotion, so bigger gates. It doesn't work and we go back to a level that's sustainable with small gates, and no massive debt like so many others get.

What a cracking idea, it's certainly different and a shrewd way to try and play it. Well done Rovers!

[graingrover]

Paying TEVEZ what he gets is immoral and that sort of craziness  may kill our country's football . THIS type of idea is an antidote that may help football clubs like our survive . .

[hoolahoop]

Well, even if I have some slight concerns about long term sustainability, what I will say is it's nice to get some clarity on the whole affair and a bit of transparency from the club. Well done JR and co from me with this one.

SS you were told about all of this some 3 weeks ago on another forum or have you forgotten

I wouldn't get too 'happy clappy' about this though until we all see which way this is all going, as for me I'm keeping an open mind.....for now.

[Florida Rover]

I agree that we should see the way this is going but in honesty is there another choice as from what I read JR intends us to make it to the Prem. Division and I cannot see another way we could make it. To take a chance is not a crime to do nothing is.

[Viking Don]

Spot on

[Chris Black come back]

Would clubs \"show-case\" their players if we dropped into League One? I'm not sure they would, so I'd be interested to see how this idea worked if we were to go down this year.

But, going back to my original query - let's use Tommy Spurr as an example. Assuming when he's fit again he'd like to play, Illunga would be keeping him out of the team. So he'd eventually want to leave. Then assume Illunga gets his big move at some point. Who's left? Another McKay fella to come straight in? Does he have a constant stream of decent left-backs? Apply the same logic to every position taken by a McKay player and I begin to question the sustainability of the club.

With regards to the Sharp point, no we cannot afford another. But neither could Scunny when they sold him. So they bought Martin Paterson. And then they bought Gary Hooper. And they kept turning a profit on these players. For a club with 5k crowds to have had two stints in the Championship and now comfortably sustain a League One club shows to me that the model works.

rtid88 - this is in no way, shape or form a Sean related argument. I'm not sure why you would seek to make it one.

Fair point about Scunny. I've got a lot of respect for what they have done, but ultimately they are shite. Somewhat unbelievably they have managed to conjure up crowds which are half even the pitiful figure that we turn out every other weak. I'd hope that we are at least better than the SKitsons

[Chris Black come back]

Would clubs \"show-case\" their players if we dropped into League One? I'm not sure they would, so I'd be interested to see how this idea worked if we were to go down this year.

But, going back to my original query - let's use Tommy Spurr as an example. Assuming when he's fit again he'd like to play, Illunga would be keeping him out of the team. So he'd eventually want to leave. Then assume Illunga gets his big move at some point. Who's left? Another McKay fella to come straight in? Does he have a constant stream of decent left-backs? Apply the same logic to every position taken by a McKay player and I begin to question the sustainability of the club.

With regards to the Sharp point, no we cannot afford another. But neither could Scunny when they sold him. So they bought Martin Paterson. And then they bought Gary Hooper. And they kept turning a profit on these players. For a club with 5k crowds to have had two stints in the Championship and now comfortably sustain a League One club shows to me that the model works.

rtid88 - this is in no way, shape or form a Sean related argument. I'm not sure why you would seek to make it one.

Totally and utterly agree with that, that's how I thought we were being run.  The fear of being relegated back to our more natural level seems to have taken hold of the board, first resulting in big money signings like Sharp and now this \"strategy\".

Am I really the only one who'd prefer us to return to the model we had in the first (couple of) Championship seasons where the defecit was smaller (and covered by the benevolance of the board) and we sold players like Wellens and Mills in order to fund the gap?  Am I really the only one who doesn't see relegation and a clearing of the financial decks as the end of the world?  Am I really the only one, who having seen so called stars of other teams in our time in the championship, isn't wetting my pants at a couple of foreigners who are coming in for three or four games and pissing off again?  Am I the only one who thinks that Doncaster Rovers is better than being a shop window?  Am I the only one who doesn't believe that Saunders will have a free hand in team selection (ie picking a loan player over an established first teamer...how are they going to earn moves elsewhere if the established player is better than them and they can't get in the team)?

I know JR has done this with the best of intentions but I have to say I'm really disappointed.  This is my 20th season and it's a world away since that first game v Halifax.  There are people on this thread who are obviously geniunely excited about Chimbonda, Diarra and the numerous other show ponies who are about to trot around for a month to earn a move somewhere \"better\".  Me?  I've seen a lot of friends and people I knew in the first ten years melting away (after the Conf years, not before!) after becoming disillusioned with various aspects (ticket prices, the Keepmoat, etc).  I'm going to have to have a long hard think about how I spend my money and time and as I finally understand why.  If you find yourself questioning your love for your spouse then you really shouldn't be there at all.

Some really good points here. For me the basic starting point is this: has the Championship really changed so substantially from 2008/9 when we comfortably remained there? What has changed since then that means we are (a) so consistently shite irrespective of who the manager is at the time and (b) relatively so much worse than other teams which are now allegedly so good?

Repeating the good football / sell players at a profit cycle that SOD achieved might not be possible, but if it is, could we get along on this basis whilst supporters slowly return to the fold?

[Viking Don]

We've got better over the last ten years, but the crowds haven't. It's simple maths. I'd draw graphs over crowd V attendance but I'll leave that to someone else...hehe They know who they are!

Basically if we want to leave it to what is realistically sustainable then it's the league below at best. !0,000 just isn't enough for a town the size of Doony hoping for a decent football club. Get prem type players and the floaters will come. hehe.

[Chris Black come back]

We've got better over the last ten years, but the crowds haven't. It's simple maths. I'd draw graphs over crowd V attendance but I'll leave that to someone else...hehe They know who they are!

I reckon our crowds have increased by a third over the last 5 years. Admittedly this is partly down to greater away crowds but that is still not bad going. Also the number of season ticket holders has increased substantially over last 5 years.

[Viking Don]

A third of not very much amounts to ... not very much. We were and still are a small club. Fractions don't impress, whole numbers do.

EDIT Really you have to compare attendances with other clubs in this league, and ours are very poor

[Norfolk N Chance]

Would clubs \"show-case\" their players if we dropped into League One? I'm not sure they would, so I'd be interested to see how this idea worked if we were to go down this year.

But, going back to my original query - let's use Tommy Spurr as an example. Assuming when he's fit again he'd like to play, Illunga would be keeping him out of the team. So he'd eventually want to leave. Then assume Illunga gets his big move at some point. Who's left? Another McKay fella to come straight in? Does he have a constant stream of decent left-backs? Apply the same logic to every position taken by a McKay player and I begin to question the sustainability of the club.

With regards to the Sharp point, no we cannot afford another. But neither could Scunny when they sold him. So they bought Martin Paterson. And then they bought Gary Hooper. And they kept turning a profit on these players. For a club with 5k crowds to have had two stints in the Championship and now comfortably sustain a League One club shows to me that the model works.

rtid88 - this is in no way, shape or form a Sean related argument. I'm not sure why you would seek to make it one.

Totally and utterly agree with that, that's how I thought we were being run.  The fear of being relegated back to our more natural level seems to have taken hold of the board, first resulting in big money signings like Sharp and now this \"strategy\".

Am I really the only one who'd prefer us to return to the model we had in the first (couple of) Championship seasons where the defecit was smaller (and covered by the benevolance of the board) and we sold players like Wellens and Mills in order to fund the gap?  Am I really the only one who doesn't see relegation and a clearing of the financial decks as the end of the world?  Am I really the only one, who having seen so called stars of other teams in our time in the championship, isn't wetting my pants at a couple of foreigners who are coming in for three or four games and pissing off again?  Am I the only one who thinks that Doncaster Rovers is better than being a shop window?  Am I the only one who doesn't believe that Saunders will have a free hand in team selection (ie picking a loan player over an established first teamer...how are they going to earn moves elsewhere if the established player is better than them and they can't get in the team)?

I know JR has done this with the best of intentions but I have to say I'm really disappointed.  This is my 20th season and it's a world away since that first game v Halifax.  There are people on this thread who are obviously geniunely excited about Chimbonda, Diarra and the numerous other show ponies who are about to trot around for a month to earn a move somewhere \"better\".  Me?  I've seen a lot of friends and people I knew in the first ten years melting away (after the Conf years, not before!) after becoming disillusioned with various aspects (ticket prices, the Keepmoat, etc).  I'm going to have to have a long hard think about how I spend my money and time and as I finally understand why.  If you find yourself questioning your love for your spouse then you really shouldn't be there at all.

Oh sorry are we not better than Scunny .....this should be one best teams in yorks ??? SO lets act like it ......oh we are???? FFS BELIEVE IN IT ....world superstars and stop being so nice and thinking of the lovely SOD game ..............JR one of the best persons EVER to be born so listen to him.........

[Chris Black come back]

A third of not very much amounts to ... not very much. We were and still are a small club. Fractions don't impress, whole numbers do.

EDIT Really you have to compare attendances with other clubs in this league, and ours are very poor

A small club is not going to go from 3k to 60k in one season. We have to look at progress in crowds. We currently have 3-4 fans each week that we did not have five years ago. We need to keep building on this.

We have a potential fan base of 250k which ain't half bad. And we are not talking about rural Suffolk or North Yorkshire. We are talking about an area with a long and proud attachment to the game and an extensive youth football setup. These are ours to win over. There is a lot to go at.

[Viking Don]

Not sure who you are arguing there with mate, but it's not me. We have to improve attendances if we want to be in this league that's for sure,and one certain way is to be push for promotion - anyone remember the crowds when we last won the league? I had an ST then so it didn't matter, but loads of my friends who 'support' Rovers were locked out. I'm pretty damn sure they'd be back wanting tickets next lockout time...