Brexit deal

[The Red Baron]

Very interesting article.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-11-15/the-brexit-deal-is-just-too-good-for-europe

[Not Now Kato]

Peston has posted copies of a junior minister's Brexit briefing notes.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1108696588153700354
 
Telling him how to say nothing at all and how to answer expected questions equally saying nothing at all.
 
No wonder we really are in the mire!

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB
That article is nonsense because it totally avoids the most important issue and the reason for it.

The entire EU strategy has been based on the principle that, if we want a deal, it has to come with a guarantee that Ireland is not f**ked about. He blithely skirts around that.

If it wasn't for Ireland, the entire situation would be different. So his conclusion that the EU is demo straying to other countries that it's not worth leaving is nonsense. He's drawing a general conclusion from a specific example.

It reads like another "I'll decide what I believe first, then write an article to support that" piece.

[Not Now Kato]

I saw this posted on another site, apparently from a Guardian newsfeed....
 

Theresa May’s Downing Street speech last night may have seemed baffling to those watching at home but there may be a clue as to its purpose in how the government social media machine has used the footage.
Soon after she finished talking in Downing Street, the official UK government Facebook pay began paying to promote a clip of her speaking under the banner “Brexit: Let’s Get On With It”.
The adverts, funded using public money, began running on Facebook last night and have already been seen at least two million times, according to the social network’s new advertising disclosure rules.
These views do not necessarily mean than a Facebook user bothered to watch any of the video - but they do mean that they saw a video in their newsfeed of Theresa May talking alongside the quote “You want this stage of the Brexit process to be over and done with. I agree. I am on your side.”
Although the sums involved are not enormous - up to £10,000 has been spent promoting the video since last night - it is another example of how Facebook ads are being used to put pressure on MPs to back Brexit by directly targeting MPs. One mysterious group campaigning for a hard Brexit, which has never revealed its financial backers, has spent almost half a million pounds on targeted Facebook ads since last October.

Disgraceful covert manipulation.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Meanwhile millions sit in the middle wanting to leave with a deal....

[DonnyOsmond]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

For anyone interested x

For anyone who doesn't want Theresa's deal or No Deal please sign x

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

For anyone interested x

For anyone who doesn't want Theresa's deal or No Deal please sign x

b*llocks. Some people may want none of those 3 options.

[DonnyOsmond]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

For anyone interested x

For anyone who doesn't want Theresa's deal or No Deal please sign x

b*llocks. Some people may want none of those 3 options.

Not b*llocks. It's easier to get another type of Brexit in a few years with a different government than leaving with no deal.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The thing about revoking Article 50 - it is a really bad thing for the Govt to do without a GE or Ref2 to underpin it. But...given the stupidly dangerous game that May is playing, planning a vote on her deal 24 hours before the leave deadline, revocation really does now come into play.

One thing is certain. Leaving with no deal would be the ultimate insult to the democratic process. There has never been anything remotely approaching a majority for No Deal in any poll. No one was supporting No Deal in the 2016 campaign [1] and the fact that a handful of the usual suspects have flipped and moved to supporting it now tells you all you need to know about their respect for democracy.

So, if we're faced with crashing out with No Deal next Friday, a vote to revoke A50 might be the only option.

[1] And before the usual suspects in here start bleating that everyone who voted Leave in 2016 wanted No Deal and knew what they were voting for, here's a challenge. Go back and find a clip of ANY prominent Brexiter advocating a No Deal Brexit in June 2016. For every one you find, I'll post 10 of others promoting various forms of deal.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Exactly BST. It's as much a myth as all leave voters being thick, uneducated racists.

DO we voted to leave 3 years ago. Dragging it out does not change that nor should an incapable government.

[The Red Baron]

TRB
That article is nonsense because it totally avoids the most important issue and the reason for it.

The entire EU strategy has been based on the principle that, if we want a deal, it has to come with a guarantee that Ireland is not f**ked about. He blithely skirts around that.

If it wasn't for Ireland, the entire situation would be different. So his conclusion that the EU is demo straying to other countries that it's not worth leaving is nonsense. He's drawing a general conclusion from a specific example.

It reads like another "I'll decide what I believe first, then write an article to support that" piece.

The problem of the Irish border could have been dealt with in context of the future relationship. That's how the UK saw it and it is why the first phase of the negotiations dragged on so long.

However, we are where we are, and IMO the best way forward would be Norway-plus. I'm surprised there is so little support for it among MPs. As I said earlier, if Remainers had got behind it from day one rather than trying to re-fight the Referendum, there's a good chance that's what we'd have got.

[Donnywolf]

976000+ signatures gathered to revoke A50 in just 16 hours.

Click on it and watch the votes change - every 15 seconds another 400 or so go on - and (this is an edit) now over 980000 - 4000 since I posted the original

60 people on the March to Leave have arrived at the Red Lion (- Farage of course)

[Boomstick]

The thing about revoking Article 50 - it is a really bad thing for the Govt to do without a GE or Ref2 to underpin it. But...given the stupidly dangerous game that May is playing, planning a vote on her deal 24 hours before the leave deadline, revocation really does now come into play.

One thing is certain. Leaving with no deal would be the ultimate insult to the democratic process. There has never been anything remotely approaching a majority for No Deal in any poll. No one was supporting No Deal in the 2016 campaign [1] and the fact that a handful of the usual suspects have flipped and moved to supporting it now tells you all you need to know about their respect for democracy.

So, if we're faced with crashing out with No Deal next Friday, a vote to revoke A50 might be the only option.

[1] And before the usual suspects in here start bleating that everyone who voted Leave in 2016 wanted No Deal and knew what they were voting for, here's a challenge. Go back and find a clip of ANY prominent Brexiter advocating a No Deal Brexit in June 2016. For every one you find, I'll post 10 of others promoting various forms of deal.

It's a very fluid situation, it may well be that the longer it goes on, the more people will want a no deal

[The Red Baron]

The outcome of today's EU Summit will be most interesting, but the really interesting bits probably won't emerge in the public domain  (at least until someone leaks them!)

My gut feeling is that the EU27 will grudgingly offer May an extension to 22-23 May, simply because of the legislation that needs to be passed. The interesting bit is what they tell her they will do If/ when she loses MV3 next week. If she goes back and asks for a longer extension, what do they say?

If it's no to another extension, then the choice is Revoke (and hold another Referendum) or No Deal.

[DonnyOsmond]

976000+ signatures gathered to revoke A50 in just 16 hours.

Click on it and watch the votes change - every 15 seconds another 400 or so go on - and (this is an edit) now over 980000 - 4000 since I posted the original

60 people on the March to Leave have arrived at the Red Lion (- Farage of course)

Over a million now.

[Pancho Regan]

                                          696,204 signatures on the Petition now to Revoke Article 50

Site keeps crashing as around 4000 people a minute are adding their names. It takes 100,000 signatures to "request" Parliament to consider whether to debate it - and will be largely useless if they dont find time to decide whether to daebate it and / or dont find the time to do so

Let's see if it gets anywhere near 17.5 million.
If course we all know it won't.
Pointless exercise.

The remainers with this petition remind me of Hitler sat in his bunker with the Red Army knocking at the door insisting he will still win the war!

It's getting a bit crowded in this bunker...... over 1 million in here now!

[DonnyOsmond]

15,000 in 10 mins seems to be the rate.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The thing about revoking Article 50 - it is a really bad thing for the Govt to do without a GE or Ref2 to underpin it. But...given the stupidly dangerous game that May is playing, planning a vote on her deal 24 hours before the leave deadline, revocation really does now come into play.

One thing is certain. Leaving with no deal would be the ultimate insult to the democratic process. There has never been anything remotely approaching a majority for No Deal in any poll. No one was supporting No Deal in the 2016 campaign [1] and the fact that a handful of the usual suspects have flipped and moved to supporting it now tells you all you need to know about their respect for democracy.

So, if we're faced with crashing out with No Deal next Friday, a vote to revoke A50 might be the only option.

[1] And before the usual suspects in here start bleating that everyone who voted Leave in 2016 wanted No Deal and knew what they were voting for, here's a challenge. Go back and find a clip of ANY prominent Brexiter advocating a No Deal Brexit in June 2016. For every one you find, I'll post 10 of others promoting various forms of deal.

It's a very fluid situation, it may well be that the longer it goes on, the more people will want a no deal

Great. Then put it to a referendum.

[Boomstick]

We've had one, we're leaving

[BillyStubbsTears]

And I'll say again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Leaving with No Deal would be the biggest miscarriage of natural justice in our political history.

Fortunately, it won't happen.

[Axholme Lion]

The thing about revoking Article 50 - it is a really bad thing for the Govt to do without a GE or Ref2 to underpin it. But...given the stupidly dangerous game that May is playing, planning a vote on her deal 24 hours before the leave deadline, revocation really does now come into play.

One thing is certain. Leaving with no deal would be the ultimate insult to the democratic process. There has never been anything remotely approaching a majority for No Deal in any poll. No one was supporting No Deal in the 2016 campaign [1] and the fact that a handful of the usual suspects have flipped and moved to supporting it now tells you all you need to know about their respect for democracy.

So, if we're faced with crashing out with No Deal next Friday, a vote to revoke A50 might be the only option.

[1] And before the usual suspects in here start bleating that everyone who voted Leave in 2016 wanted No Deal and knew what they were voting for, here's a challenge. Go back and find a clip of ANY prominent Brexiter advocating a No Deal Brexit in June 2016. For every one you find, I'll post 10 of others promoting various forms of deal.

It's a very fluid situation, it may well be that the longer it goes on, the more people will want a no deal

Great. Then put it to a referendum.

We've had one.
We've also had a general election where the vast majority of people voted for parties in which their manifesto stated that they would hold up the result of the referendum.
The British public have had their only say which they have in their vote. Parliament refuse to accept the will of the people and also refuse to accept TM's deal so therefore we will leave (not crash out, more scaremongering talk) on March 29th as voted for by parliament.
It couldn't be more simple, unless you do not respect democracy.

[Axholme Lion]

And I'll say again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Leaving with No Deal would be the biggest miscarriage of natural justice in our political history.

Fortunately, it won't happen.

In your opinion. Fortunately most of Britain disagree with you.

[Not Now Kato]

And I'll say again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Leaving with No Deal would be the biggest miscarriage of natural justice in our political history.

Fortunately, it won't happen.

In your opinion. Fortunately most of Britain disagree with you.

You've spoken to them?  All of them?

[Axholme Lion]

And I'll say again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Leaving with No Deal would be the biggest miscarriage of natural justice in our political history.

Fortunately, it won't happen.

In your opinion. Fortunately most of Britain disagree with you.

You've spoken to them?  All of them?

No, but 17.4 million of them said so when they voted.

[DonnyOsmond]

And I'll say again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Leaving with No Deal would be the biggest miscarriage of natural justice in our political history.

Fortunately, it won't happen.

In your opinion. Fortunately most of Britain disagree with you.

17.4million isn't even a third of the population?

[DonnyOsmond]

And I'll say again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Leaving with No Deal would be the biggest miscarriage of natural justice in our political history.

Fortunately, it won't happen.

In your opinion. Fortunately most of Britain disagree with you.

17.4million isn't even a third of the population?

And 17.4 million don't want no deal. They voted leave, not no deal.

[Axholme Lion]

And I'll say again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Leaving with No Deal would be the biggest miscarriage of natural justice in our political history.

Fortunately, it won't happen.

In your opinion. Fortunately most of Britain disagree with you.

17.4million isn't even a third of the population?

It's more than voted remain. If people can't be bothered to vote they shouldn't complain at the outcome.

[Axholme Lion]

And I'll say again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Leaving with No Deal would be the biggest miscarriage of natural justice in our political history.

Fortunately, it won't happen.

In your opinion. Fortunately most of Britain disagree with you.

17.4million isn't even a third of the population?

And 17.4 million don't want no deal. They voted leave, not no deal.

Therefore parliament should support TM's deal, problem solved.

[Not Now Kato]

And I'll say again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Leaving with No Deal would be the biggest miscarriage of natural justice in our political history.

Fortunately, it won't happen.

In your opinion. Fortunately most of Britain disagree with you.

17.4million isn't even a third of the population?

And 17.4 million don't want no deal. They voted leave, not no deal.

Therefore parliament should support TM's deal, problem solved.

Why?  They didn't vote for TM's deal.

[Axholme Lion]

And I'll say again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Leaving with No Deal would be the biggest miscarriage of natural justice in our political history.

Fortunately, it won't happen.

In your opinion. Fortunately most of Britain disagree with you.

17.4million isn't even a third of the population?

And 17.4 million don't want no deal. They voted leave, not no deal.

Therefore parliament should support TM's deal, problem solved.

Why?  They didn't vote for TM's deal.

Because they voted to leave the EU on March, 29th and both Conservative and Liebour stood on a manifesto supporting leave.