Labour U Turns Part 164

[Bristol Red Rover]

At least we have more choice here than Russia. However bad the choices are.

Glad that pacifies your soul. Something's working eh?

[idler]

At least we have more choice here than Russia. However bad the choices are.

Glad that pacifies your soul. Something's working eh?

It doesn’t but there are far worse places to be as a voter.

[roverstillidie91]

At least we have more choice here than Russia. However bad the choices are.

if we come out the ECHR it may become reality

[SydneyRover]

At least we have more choice here than Russia. However bad the choices are.

if we come out the ECHR it may become reality

''if, may''

[BillyStubbsTears]

"all 6 or 7 million union members should mobilise and vote against Labour which would cause some serious damage"

And return a Tory government.

Can't beat The Left can you?

Can't have exactly what I want? Then let's have the Tories in power for the next generation.

I used to know someone in the SWP who bragged of voting for Thatcher and agitating on the shop floor in the Winter of Discontent to humiliate the Labour Govt. His argument was that Labour made things better for the workers, and what was needed was for someone to make things harder for workers. Because if that didn't happen, the workers would never rise up and destroy Capitalism.

Silly f**king Kitson.

[roverstillidie91]

"all 6 or 7 million union members should mobilise and vote against Labour which would cause some serious damage"

And return a Tory government.

Can't beat The Left can you?

Can't have exactly what I want? Then let's have the Tories in power for the next generation.

I used to know someone in the SWP who bragged of voting for Thatcher and agitating on the shop floor in the Winter of Discontent to humiliate the Labour Govt. His argument was that Labour made things better for the workers, and what was needed was for someone to make things harder for workers. Because if that didn't happen, the workers would never rise up and destroy Capitalism.

Silly f**king Kitson.

whose a silly f**king kitson?

[albie]

BST is the SF Kitson, for not understanding that the reason many folk vote is for a change of policy from the government, not for a continuation of the same thing.
We now have 3 parties, blue, red and orange, that all belong to funding sponsors and all offer slightly different versions of failed neo-liberal economic policies.

All it means is that on key policy areas there will be a continuity of approach.
This is what city investors want to see, so that they can plan their strategies without potential hiccups.

Meanwhile, social priorities will remain second order considerations, which may get some sticking plasters, but not the structural reforms that will address the issues.
That is what we have, and it is piss poor.

[ncRover]

It’s pretty clear to read that the silly kitson he meant is the bloke in his story

[roverstillidie91]

BST is the SF Kitson, for not understanding that the reason many folk vote is for a change of policy from the government, not for a continuation of the same thing.
We now have 3 parties, blue, red and orange, that all belong to funding sponsors and all offer slightly different versions of failed neo-liberal economic policies.

All it means is that on key policy areas there will be a continuity of approach.
This is what city investors want to see, so that they can plan their strategies without potential hiccups.

Meanwhile, social priorities will remain second order considerations, which may get some sticking plasters, but not the structural reforms that will address the issues.
That is what we have, and it is piss poor.

it's just the typical attitude you get from most people basically just put up or shut up and stick with the established parties.

People are discontented with the political parties.

[danumdon]

The electorate need to grow a backbone and demand change.

It happened in France and Canada, it needs to happen here. We need shot of this disgraceful professional political class who have no ones interests at heart except for themselves first and foremost followed by their shadowy political masters.

We need to somehow manage to persuade professional and technical specialists (none political) who can give some time to helping to set the country straight and give meaningful direction to a politicised civil service who need to be reigned in and made to do their jobs, not dictate what gets decided upon.

[roverstillidie91]

The electorate need to grow a backbone and demand change.

It happened in France and Canada, it needs to happen here. We need shot of this disgraceful professional political class who have no ones interests at heart except for themselves first and foremost followed by their shadowy political masters.

We need to somehow manage to persuade professional and technical specialists (none political) who can give some time to helping to set the country straight and give meaningful direction to a politicised civil service who need to be reigned in and made to do their jobs, not dictate what gets decided upon.

there are plenty of resources especially on social media why we need change especially PR a party can get 7 million votes but get only 1 seat.

We are too tolerant as a society that's the problem I'm not saying we should demand absolutely everything but we don't negotiate.

[roverstillidie91]

There's a lot of disinformation especially in the MSM which supports the political parties narrative and its trying to separate fact from dishonest information.
The country is in such a mess

It is a myth that there is a notion yes working people have come a long way but going back to what I'd say is akin to dickensian type of living conditions for the majority of the public basically we are slaves.

[albie]

It’s pretty clear to read that the silly kitson he meant is the bloke in his story

The bloke in the story does sound like a Kitson, but the trouble is we are surrounded by Kitsons.

The Johnson Kitson, followed by the Truss version, then the Sunak alternative, and after the GE a new set of complete Kitsons.
Maybe the UK needs to be renamed Kitson Island!

[Sprotyrover]

Any chance of some Policy from Labour? I would consider voting for them if they Cut Taxes….But we all know that will go the other way.
Where are all these Billionaires they gonna Hammer? Isle Oman, Virgin Islands etc,

[BillyStubbsTears]

Looks like Keith has pulled the proposed New Deal on Workers Rights.

Here is the FT summary:
https://www.ft.com/content/fe1608d1-3a61-43a0-9c17-2868c40821c2

Sharon Graham from Unite reckons it is a goner!
https://nitter.poast.org/UniteSharon/status/1788231614427799593#m

Surprised you haven't posted this Albie.

https://twitter.com/unitetheunion/status/1790458882927608032

Did I say "surprised". Sorry, that was daft of me.

[albie]

BST,

Your beef is really with Sharon Graham, you might ask her why what she described as "a betrayal" has now been airbrushed for public consumption.

As you know, other union leaders also took a critical position.
Keith decided on Tuesday to row back, avoiding a another breach with Labour in Scotland.

Sharon has form, as this piece sets out;
https://skwawkbox.org/2024/05/14/video-graham-cosies-with-starmer-yet-again-and-self-owns-massively/

"The package, which aims to reform workers' rights and which Labour previously pledged to implement within 100 days of being in government, includes a higher sick pay rate, the end of “fire and rehire” and the banning of zero-hour contracts".
 
It might be papering over the cracks for pre election purposes, or maybe Keith will be held to it.
Certainly progress if it actually happens.

Trouble is he has a history of telling porkies, and then denying it.
Hardly trustworthy, is he?

[BillyStubbsTears]

f**k me, Sharon Graham is a centrist mum now, is she?

[Sprotyrover]

BST,

Your beef is really with Sharon Graham, you might ask her why what she described as "a betrayal" has now been airbrushed for public consumption.

As you know, other union leaders also took a critical position.
Keith decided on Tuesday to row back, avoiding a another breach with Labour in Scotland.

Sharon has form, as this piece sets out;
https://skwawkbox.org/2024/05/14/video-graham-cosies-with-starmer-yet-again-and-self-owns-massively/

"The package, which aims to reform workers' rights and which Labour previously pledged to implement within 100 days of being in government, includes a higher sick pay rate, the end of “fire and rehire” and the banning of zero-hour contracts".
 
It might be papering over the cracks for pre election purposes, or maybe Keith will be held to it.
Certainly progress if it actually happens.

Trouble is he has a history of telling porkies, and then denying it.
Hardly trustworthy, is he?

Painted themselves into a corner here looks like Labour are ditching the Unions and coseying up to big business

[albie]

Not well versed in trade union affairs then BST?

Shaz has been putting noses out of joint among her her own membership;
https://skwawkbox.org/2024/05/16/exclusive-key-unite-committee-walks-out-says-will-start-legal-action-against-union/

There is a whole back story to this, but for this thread the point is Labour have apparently done a U-Turn on a U-Turn, the original deal for workers rights having been agreed back in July 2023.

Keith and Rachel have been chipping away at it ever since, swayed by business lobby interests whose money they crave.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Keep going Albie.

You DO realise what the far left does don't you?

Insist that anyone to the right of them are Red Tories.

And then look round astonished when only 10% of the country agrees with them, and blame everyone else for not being true believers.

I've said before, it was you and your like who gave us Austerity and Brexit and Farage and Johnson and Truss.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And Skwakbox?

f**k me sideways.

A far left zealot scanning around for people not as far left as him to anoint as The Enemy.

[tyke1962]

Keep going Albie.

You DO realise what the far left does don't you?

Insist that anyone to the right of them are Red Tories.

And then look round astonished when only 10% of the country agrees with them, and blame everyone else for not being true believers.

I've said before, it was you and your like who gave us Austerity and Brexit and Farage and Johnson and Truss.

Your using the present voting system which the majority of people in this country are chained to in order to justify yourself .

More people voted for Corbyn when Labour were annihilated in 2019 than they did for Blair in 2005 when he was returned with a good majority ,  a million more voted for Corbyn .

Two and a half million more people voted for Corbyn in 2017 than they did for Miliband in 2015 .

It gets worse , over 3 million more voted for Corbyn in 2017 than they did for Gordon Brown in 2010 .

It's highly likely you'll be elected to government this year with less votes than Labour won in the annihilation of 2019 .

It might be a good idea Billy to take a good look at the figures of the people who don't want you .

So I wouldn't start talking down to posters as is your way when you think the Billy view is the popular view .

Winning an election and winning a country is two different things .

The truth is whilst nobody wants the Tories the country doesn't want you lot either but it's stuck with one of you .

[idler]

To win an election in the UK you have to attract voters from other parties.  Increasing your majorities in seats that you already  hold is no good to an opposition party if you can’t win enough new seats.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

Don't lecture me on the electoral system

I don't like it any more than you do.

But given that it is the one we have, rather than the one you want us to have, you have to make your decision in that context.

Or, of course, you can be one of those who things that Labour are Red Tories, so it doesn't matter if Blue Tories get in.

In which case you are an infant.

[albie]

So nothing useful to say on the important issues at Unite raised in the article then, BST.
Just the usual hamfisted attempt to smear anybody who tries to raise serious matters that do not fit with your extreme centrist beliefs.
Blame the messenger, ignore the message!

Or are you saying that the attempt to roll back on workers rights under Keith is not correct, and Starmer and Reeves have not really been pimping the party policy to the highest bidder?
It would be a strange take, but I think you are up to it.

If you don't think Labour are copying Tory policies, please point out the key differences you think will make for transformational change.
What are the differences between Rachel Reeves and George Osbourne on the economic plan?

Ignoring evidence that does not support your view of the world is a bit myopic, isn't it?
None so blind......you know the rest!

[BillyStubbsTears]

So nothing useful to say on the important issues at Unite raised in the article then, BST.
Just the usual hamfisted attempt to smear anybody who tries to raise serious matters that do not fit with your extreme centrist beliefs.
Blame the messenger, ignore the message!

Or are you saying that the attempt to roll back on workers rights under Keith is not correct, and Starmer and Reeves have not really been pimping the party policy to the highest bidder?
It would be a strange take, but I think you are up to it.

If you don't think Labour are copying Tory policies, please point out the key differences you think will make for transformational change.
What are the differences between Rachel Reeves and George Osbourne on the economic plan?

Ignoring evidence that does not support your view of the world is a bit myopic, isn't it?
None so blind......you know the rest!

Albie.
I took a policy of ignoring Skwakbox years ago, for the same reason I ignore The Mail.

Neither are remotely to be trusted to present a balanced view. Both decide what they want to be true first, and build stories around that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh aye.

And as a matter of policy, I refuse ever to use any website that doesn't allow you to manage cookies.

The only two that immediately come to mind are Guido and Skwakbox. Go figure
 

[albie]

So what is your answer to the questions put?

1) Do you disagree with the content of the article on Unite, and please explain what is incorrect (with your evidence).
2) We await your explanation of the main difference  between the economic strategy of Reeves, and the austerity of Osbourne.

Trustworthy Keith chats to Beth Rigby on Sky;
https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1791140438964944896/vid/avc1/720x1280/XcUdzh9zFxce609M.mp4?tag=14

BTW, you block cookies under the settings option in your browser.

[Bristol Red Rover]

So nothing useful to say on the important issues at Unite raised in the article then, BST.
Just the usual hamfisted attempt to smear anybody who tries to raise serious matters that do not fit with your extreme centrist beliefs.
Blame the messenger, ignore the message!

Or are you saying that the attempt to roll back on workers rights under Keith is not correct, and Starmer and Reeves have not really been pimping the party policy to the highest bidder?
It would be a strange take, but I think you are up to it.

If you don't think Labour are copying Tory policies, please point out the key differences you think will make for transformational change.
What are the differences between Rachel Reeves and George Osbourne on the economic plan?

Ignoring evidence that does not support your view of the world is a bit myopic, isn't it?
None so blind......you know the rest!

Albie.
I took a policy of ignoring Skwakbox years ago, for the same reason I ignore The Mail.

Neither are remotely to be trusted to present a balanced view. Both decide what they want to be true first, and build stories around that.

Please stick to the discussion, quit the dusty rhetoric. What is it exactly you are questioning in what is said on Skwakbox?

[scawsby steve]

So what is your answer to the questions put?

1) Do you disagree with the content of the article on Unite, and please explain what is incorrect (with your evidence).
2) We await your explanation of the main difference  between the economic strategy of Reeves, and the austerity of Osbourne.

Trustworthy Keith chats to Beth Rigby on Sky;
https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1791140438964944896/vid/avc1/720x1280/XcUdzh9zFxce609M.mp4?tag=14

BTW, you block cookies under the settings option in your browser.

Albie, I watched that on Sky News. Beth Rigby is THE best political interviewer on TV. She lets no-one off the hook, of any political persuasion.

The way she took Keith apart was cringeworthy to watch.