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Quote from: tyke1962 on January 02, 2021, 07:28:40 pmQuote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 07:21:18 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on January 02, 2021, 07:03:16 pmQuote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 06:27:37 pmHow patronising is that? you've not had it as hard as me so you don't know real struggle.Christ, careful you don't fall off that high horse.I haven't said you don't have it hard , the point I'm trying to make is that complaining about it and doing nowt of substance isn't a great look .I fell off your so called high horse in 1985 matey when we all marched back to work with our tails between our legs after Thatcher gave us a kicking .The impact of that defeat weighs heavily when I see how things have turned out since and that's the honest truth .It weighed that heavily I walked away from the mining industry in two years later because nowt was ever the same again and we all knew what was coming .I don't have it particularly hard, but I really don't know who you think you are thinking you're the one who gets to decide who's "worthy" by your standards. You just come across as a typical "youth of today ra ra ra" boomer.Maybe folk are a little too easily offended these days .Maybe folk are a little patronising and stuck in the past these days.
Quote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 07:21:18 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on January 02, 2021, 07:03:16 pmQuote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 06:27:37 pmHow patronising is that? you've not had it as hard as me so you don't know real struggle.Christ, careful you don't fall off that high horse.I haven't said you don't have it hard , the point I'm trying to make is that complaining about it and doing nowt of substance isn't a great look .I fell off your so called high horse in 1985 matey when we all marched back to work with our tails between our legs after Thatcher gave us a kicking .The impact of that defeat weighs heavily when I see how things have turned out since and that's the honest truth .It weighed that heavily I walked away from the mining industry in two years later because nowt was ever the same again and we all knew what was coming .I don't have it particularly hard, but I really don't know who you think you are thinking you're the one who gets to decide who's "worthy" by your standards. You just come across as a typical "youth of today ra ra ra" boomer.Maybe folk are a little too easily offended these days .
Quote from: tyke1962 on January 02, 2021, 07:03:16 pmQuote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 06:27:37 pmHow patronising is that? you've not had it as hard as me so you don't know real struggle.Christ, careful you don't fall off that high horse.I haven't said you don't have it hard , the point I'm trying to make is that complaining about it and doing nowt of substance isn't a great look .I fell off your so called high horse in 1985 matey when we all marched back to work with our tails between our legs after Thatcher gave us a kicking .The impact of that defeat weighs heavily when I see how things have turned out since and that's the honest truth .It weighed that heavily I walked away from the mining industry in two years later because nowt was ever the same again and we all knew what was coming .I don't have it particularly hard, but I really don't know who you think you are thinking you're the one who gets to decide who's "worthy" by your standards. You just come across as a typical "youth of today ra ra ra" boomer.
Quote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 06:27:37 pmHow patronising is that? you've not had it as hard as me so you don't know real struggle.Christ, careful you don't fall off that high horse.I haven't said you don't have it hard , the point I'm trying to make is that complaining about it and doing nowt of substance isn't a great look .I fell off your so called high horse in 1985 matey when we all marched back to work with our tails between our legs after Thatcher gave us a kicking .The impact of that defeat weighs heavily when I see how things have turned out since and that's the honest truth .It weighed that heavily I walked away from the mining industry in two years later because nowt was ever the same again and we all knew what was coming .
How patronising is that? you've not had it as hard as me so you don't know real struggle.Christ, careful you don't fall off that high horse.
Quote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 07:30:27 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on January 02, 2021, 07:28:40 pmQuote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 07:21:18 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on January 02, 2021, 07:03:16 pmQuote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 06:27:37 pmHow patronising is that? you've not had it as hard as me so you don't know real struggle.Christ, careful you don't fall off that high horse.I haven't said you don't have it hard , the point I'm trying to make is that complaining about it and doing nowt of substance isn't a great look .I fell off your so called high horse in 1985 matey when we all marched back to work with our tails between our legs after Thatcher gave us a kicking .The impact of that defeat weighs heavily when I see how things have turned out since and that's the honest truth .It weighed that heavily I walked away from the mining industry in two years later because nowt was ever the same again and we all knew what was coming .I don't have it particularly hard, but I really don't know who you think you are thinking you're the one who gets to decide who's "worthy" by your standards. You just come across as a typical "youth of today ra ra ra" boomer.Maybe folk are a little too easily offended these days .Maybe folk are a little patronising and stuck in the past these days.Stuck in the past is an interesting one Janso given the same old problems still exist , also known as the distribution of wealth .I've spent a huge amount of time representing members in the workplace and was privileged to do so .I've very little time for those who whinge and moan but don't do much about it .If that offends or come across badly , so be it .
There's a rumour doing the rounds on social media that he's going to announce his resignation tomorrow.
Tyke."Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.
I've spent a huge amount of time representing members in the workplace and was privileged to do so .I've very little time for those who whinge and moan but don't do much about it .
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on January 02, 2021, 08:12:29 pmTyke."Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.Billy I'm offering you facts about what was going on in the tory party following Heath biting the dust and you are giving me late 1970's opinion polls .Oh well .They were never going to take the fact the NUM brought their government down well I think we can at least agree on that .However what I can't get my head round is the fact you seem to have a problem because the trade unions weren't prepared to see their wages drop in value which would have been the equivalent of what we know today as austerity .Is this because in 1979 a Labour government were in office by any chance and so they should just have taken it up the rear ? .The fight was about putting food on the table and not electing the next government .As I've tried pointing out to you , the trade union movement's fate was sealed five years earlier when Heath's government fell and all they needed was a willing horse and an election win which Challaghan handed to em on a plate .
Tyke."Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.
Quote from: tyke1962 on January 02, 2021, 08:52:53 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on January 02, 2021, 08:12:29 pmTyke."Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.Billy I'm offering you facts about what was going on in the tory party following Heath biting the dust and you are giving me late 1970's opinion polls .Oh well .They were never going to take the fact the NUM brought their government down well I think we can at least agree on that .However what I can't get my head round is the fact you seem to have a problem because the trade unions weren't prepared to see their wages drop in value which would have been the equivalent of what we know today as austerity .Is this because in 1979 a Labour government were in office by any chance and so they should just have taken it up the rear ? .The fight was about putting food on the table and not electing the next government .As I've tried pointing out to you , the trade union movement's fate was sealed five years earlier when Heath's government fell and all they needed was a willing horse and an election win which Challaghan handed to em on a plate .So you are just going to ignore the polling facts and insist you are right? You're going to ignore the fact that Callaghan's Labour were ahead in the polls before the WoD and you are going to insist that Labour losing in 1979 is Callaghan's fault?
Quote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 07:48:51 pmThere's a rumour doing the rounds on social media that he's going to announce his resignation tomorrow. Just the Momentum nutters getting a hashtag trending in my opinion, that lot will ensure we live with the Tory’s for the rest of our lives
Quote from: Filo on January 02, 2021, 08:36:10 pmQuote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 07:48:51 pmThere's a rumour doing the rounds on social media that he's going to announce his resignation tomorrow. Just the Momentum nutters getting a hashtag trending in my opinion, that lot will ensure we live with the Tory’s for the rest of our livesSo Momentum speak for the whole country , wow ... who knew !!
This thread highlights what I've said on here several times, that Starmer has taken on a momentous task, to unite a party that is hopelessly split between the liberalists and the left, the North and the South, and the young and the old.Then, if he miraculously manages that, he's got to turn an 80 seat Tory majority into a Labour majority.I don't envy his task one bit.
Quote from: tyke1962 on January 02, 2021, 09:49:59 pmQuote from: Filo on January 02, 2021, 08:36:10 pmQuote from: Janso on January 02, 2021, 07:48:51 pmThere's a rumour doing the rounds on social media that he's going to announce his resignation tomorrow. Just the Momentum nutters getting a hashtag trending in my opinion, that lot will ensure we live with the Tory’s for the rest of our livesSo Momentum speak for the whole country , wow ... who knew !!You know very well what I mean, they will and are splitting the labour vote rather than coming together for the good of the labour party, they have had 2 goes at a General Election with their poster boy as leader and failed, they are trying every tool at their disposal to ensure any leader that they don’t approve of will fail to win an election
I thought Ed was pretty decent tbf. Most genuine from both sides in years.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on January 02, 2021, 08:57:54 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on January 02, 2021, 08:52:53 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on January 02, 2021, 08:12:29 pmTyke."Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.Billy I'm offering you facts about what was going on in the tory party following Heath biting the dust and you are giving me late 1970's opinion polls .Oh well .They were never going to take the fact the NUM brought their government down well I think we can at least agree on that .However what I can't get my head round is the fact you seem to have a problem because the trade unions weren't prepared to see their wages drop in value which would have been the equivalent of what we know today as austerity .Is this because in 1979 a Labour government were in office by any chance and so they should just have taken it up the rear ? .The fight was about putting food on the table and not electing the next government .As I've tried pointing out to you , the trade union movement's fate was sealed five years earlier when Heath's government fell and all they needed was a willing horse and an election win which Challaghan handed to em on a plate .So you are just going to ignore the polling facts and insist you are right? You're going to ignore the fact that Callaghan's Labour were ahead in the polls before the WoD and you are going to insist that Labour losing in 1979 is Callaghan's fault?Opinion polls aren't necessarily the facts today never mind in the late 1970's Billy .You are also assuming that every member of a trade union voted Labour in 1979 , they didn't and the reason they didn't is because membership of a trade union was accepted by both tories and labour so carried less allegiance to party politics you are imagining .They weren't prepared to eat Labour's austerity pie and had enough about em to do something about it .It's as simple as that really , the 79 election was neither here nor there .
Quote from: tyke1962 on January 02, 2021, 08:52:53 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on January 02, 2021, 08:12:29 pmTyke."Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.Billy I'm offering you facts about what was going on in the tory party following Heath biting the dust and you are giving me late 1970's opinion polls .Oh well .They were never going to take the fact the NUM brought their government down well I think we can at least agree on that .However what I can't get my head round is the fact you seem to have a problem because the trade unions weren't prepared to see their wages drop in value which would have been the equivalent of what we know today as austerity .Is this because in 1979 a Labour government were in office by any chance and so they should just have taken it up the rear ? .The fight was about putting food on the table and not electing the next government .As I've tried pointing out to you , the trade union movement's fate was sealed five years earlier when Heath's government fell and all they needed was a willing horse and an election win which Challaghan handed to em on a plate .So you are just going to ignore the polling facts and insist you are right? You're going to ignore the fact that Callaghan's Labour were ahead in the polls before the WoD and you are going to insist that Labour losing in 1979 is Callaghan's fault?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on January 02, 2021, 08:12:29 pmTyke."Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.Billy I'm offering you facts about what was going on in the tory party following Heath biting the dust and you are giving me late 1970's opinion polls .Oh well .They were never going to take the fact the NUM brought their government down well I think we can at least agree on that .However what I can't get my head round is the fact you seem to have a problem because the trade unions weren't prepared to see their wages drop in value which would have been the equivalent of what we know today as austerity .Is this because in 1979 a Labour government were in office by any chance and so they should just have taken it up the rear ? .The fight was about putting food on the table and not electing the next government .As I've tried pointing out to you , the trade union movement's fate was sealed five years earlier when Heath's government fell and all they needed was a willing horse and an election win which Challaghan handed to em on a plate .
Tyke."Labour were never going to win the 79 election when they lost compete control of inflation whether anybody went on strike or not ."I lost interest at this. If you invent your own history to suit the story you want to believe, and ignore the real facts then discussion is pointless.Look at the opinion polls from that time, absorb the facts, then we could try to discuss this again.
QuoteI've spent a huge amount of time representing members in the workplace and was privileged to do so .I've very little time for those who whinge and moan but don't do much about it .Quite beyond belief.Tyke. You INHERITED an organised Labour movement. You didn't invent the bloody thing from scratch! Then your generation destroyed it by fighting the wrong bloody enemy. And now, with the union movement decimated, you blame young people for it!Stunning re-writing of history.
The Tories used the success of the Ford Capri and Ford motors to gain a vote of no confidence in the labour government. Callaghan's government had a maximum percentage wage rise imposition on any wage rise, the Ford motor company said that they were willing to give the unions an above that level wage rise but due to government rules they were unable to do so and Thatcher and the Tories said that a company should be able to pay it's workers what they wanted to and used it to bring a motion of no confidence in the government. Some labour MPs voted against their own government when that became the reason for a vote of no confidence in the government and narrowly brought the government down. Labour MP's and unions were responsible for Margaret Thatcher gaining power, and were used to do so.
Quote from: selby on January 03, 2021, 06:08:04 pm The Tories used the success of the Ford Capri and Ford motors to gain a vote of no confidence in the labour government. Callaghan's government had a maximum percentage wage rise imposition on any wage rise, the Ford motor company said that they were willing to give the unions an above that level wage rise but due to government rules they were unable to do so and Thatcher and the Tories said that a company should be able to pay it's workers what they wanted to and used it to bring a motion of no confidence in the government. Some labour MPs voted against their own government when that became the reason for a vote of no confidence in the government and narrowly brought the government down. Labour MP's and unions were responsible for Margaret Thatcher gaining power, and were used to do so.Not one Labour party mp voted against the party, the Labour Govt was a minority Govt at that time, they lost the vote by 1 vote, the SNP and Libs brought the Govt downDo you just make stuff up as you type it?
Quote from: Filo on January 03, 2021, 06:14:17 pmQuote from: selby on January 03, 2021, 06:08:04 pm The Tories used the success of the Ford Capri and Ford motors to gain a vote of no confidence in the labour government. Callaghan's government had a maximum percentage wage rise imposition on any wage rise, the Ford motor company said that they were willing to give the unions an above that level wage rise but due to government rules they were unable to do so and Thatcher and the Tories said that a company should be able to pay it's workers what they wanted to and used it to bring a motion of no confidence in the government. Some labour MPs voted against their own government when that became the reason for a vote of no confidence in the government and narrowly brought the government down. Labour MP's and unions were responsible for Margaret Thatcher gaining power, and were used to do so.Not one Labour party mp voted against the party, the Labour Govt was a minority Govt at that time, they lost the vote by 1 vote, the SNP and Libs brought the Govt downDo you just make stuff up as you type it?Do you really need to ask? then when he's caught out he was trying to wind us up all along.
Plus, Ford had nothing it do with it. The Tories supported the vote of no confidence because the SNP had already raised one due to Devolution not happening after the referendum didn't get the necessary result to make it happen. Prior to this the SNP had voted with the Government in order to make sure the referendum took place.