Tory Leader - Who's your preference?

[SydneyRover]

Didn't they have a recording Steve?

[scawsby steve]

Didn't they have a recording Steve?

If they had, then surely the Police must have listened to it, and would have found nothing dark or dangerous, or why did they conclude that nothing was wrong?

[Not Now Kato]

Didn't they have a recording Steve?

If they had, then surely the Police must have listened to it, and would have found nothing dark or dangerous, or why did they conclude that nothing was wrong?

Is that the same police that initially denied that there was any incident in the first place, until the press quoted them their own incident number?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Didn't they have a recording Steve?

If they had, then surely the Police must have listened to it, and would have found nothing dark or dangerous, or why did they conclude that nothing was wrong?

Because...do I REALLY need to write this? Apparently I do...

Because a future PM can have character defects which are not illegal, but which the electorate might still want ot take into account when considering whether they want him to lead the country.

[scawsby steve]

Didn't they have a recording Steve?

If they had, then surely the Police must have listened to it, and would have found nothing dark or dangerous, or why did they conclude that nothing was wrong?

Because...do I REALLY need to write this? Apparently I do...

Because a future PM can have character defects which are not illegal, but which the electorate might still want ot take into account when considering whether they want him to lead the country.

I don't doubt for one minute the character defects of Johnson; I just doubt the motives of the neighbours when they say they were concerened for the welfare of the woman. I think there was something more ulterior going on.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS.
Your call.

Me, I know what I'd do if I heard a female voice from next door screaming "Get off me" and the sound of banging so hard it made my own house shake.

[wing commander]

  Billy you are being very selective here with the above comment..i don't have a problem with the fact he banged on the door to check everything was fine or that he called the Police to check.

  However lets be honest,these were a couple who were openly aggressive to them in public prior to this,Is giving them the middle finger everytime she saw them is that acceptable behaviour to you???it's no coincidence that she deleted all the numerous vile tweets soon after either..

  Then of course there's the fact that he recorded it and sent it to the Guardian..A paper I might add that was at the forefront of crying foul during the phone tapping scandals championing the cause of people's privacy..

   I don't accept your argument that the people need to know what she said..We've all had blazing rows with people were things were said in the heat of the moment most of which we don't mean..It wasn't long ago that the mail did a piece on Corbyn,he was trashed by people who used to work with him with various quotes on his behaviour towards others but that was just right wing scaremongering...

  At the end of the day once again people will base their arguments and opinions on which way their political leanings lie..

[Bentley Bullet]

Absolutely spot on.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wing Co.

Several points.

1) I haven't seen that article about Corbyn. Can you pass me a link to it.

2) This is not remotely like phone tapping. Phone tapping was illegally accessing private communications. If you're screaming so loud that the neighbours can hear, by definition that is not private. A future PM might want to reflect on his self-control in matters such as this. The electorate might want to reflect on his ability to control himself.

3) There's a final, over-riding reason why it is correct for this to be in the public domain in the specific case of Boris Johnson. He is going to be our first celebrity PM. He has no political policies. He has no political philosophy. He doesn't stand for anything but himself and his career. He has carefully crafted his public persona o er the past twenty years by presenting himself as a loveable buffoon.

Now, if the British public want a loveable buffoon with zero political belief as PM, they are entitled to that. But as his ex-employer said graphically, that's not him. It's an act, designed to deceive. As Hastings said, "he is a more ruthless, and, frankly nastier person than the public realises." They have a right to see the other side of him.

Personally, I'd prefer political decisions were based on political philosophies and policies. But Johnson doesn't have any. He has chosen to make it about him and his persona. He can't complain that it's unfair to put the real persona before the public.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Didn't they have a recording Steve?

If they had, then surely the Police must have listened to it, and would have found nothing dark or dangerous, or why did they conclude that nothing was wrong?

Because...do I REALLY need to write this? Apparently I do...

Because a future PM can have character defects which are not illegal, but which the electorate might still want ot take into account when considering whether they want him to lead the country.

I don't doubt for one minute the character defects of Johnson; I just doubt the motives of the neighbours when they say they were concerened for the welfare of the woman. I think there was something more ulterior going on.

Has it ever crossed your mind that the neighbours - for some strange, presumably selfish reason - don't want to have to sit in their own home and have to listen to the sounds of an apparently violent argument going on for an unknown length of time? Or that if they also have kids they wouldn't want them to have to endure it either - and not for the first time by all accounts? Would you want your family to have to go through that or would you want something doing about it?

Isn't that motive enough to want someone - anyone - to get them next door to shut up? And also reason enough to record - IN THEIR OWN HOME - what they having to listen to so they could evidence it for authorities to listen to?

[Glyn_Wigley]

  Billy you are being very selective here with the above comment..i don't have a problem with the fact he banged on the door to check everything was fine or that he called the Police to check.

  However lets be honest,these were a couple who were openly aggressive to them in public prior to this,Is giving them the middle finger everytime she saw them is that acceptable behaviour to you???it's no coincidence that she deleted all the numerous vile tweets soon after either..

  Then of course there's the fact that he recorded it and sent it to the Guardian..A paper I might add that was at the forefront of crying foul during the phone tapping scandals championing the cause of people's privacy..

   I don't accept your argument that the people need to know what she said..We've all had blazing rows with people were things were said in the heat of the moment most of which we don't mean..It wasn't long ago that the mail did a piece on Corbyn,he was trashed by people who used to work with him with various quotes on his behaviour towards others but that was just right wing scaremongering...

  At the end of the day once again people will base their arguments and opinions on which way their political leanings lie..

If Johnson wasn't such a knob there'd be nothing for the neighbours to give to the Guardian, would there?

[BillyStubbsTears]

By the way, Johnson's current defence over not answering questions on the row is that he wants to protect his loved ones.

That's Johnson who so cares for his loved ones that he fathered a child with another woman when he was married. Got divorced. Moved in with the other woman and married her. Then had a string of affairs whilst married, one of which led to a second child, another one which led to an abortion and a miscarriage (the latter affair occurring while he was also f**king a third woman). It's the Johnson who, after all that, was finally divorced by his second wife for having an affair with the woman who now ends up screaming "Get off me" and "you don't care about anything" at him in the middle of the night.


He clearly believes wholeheartedly in protecting those he loves. Problem is, the only person he loves is himself.

See, Wing Co. This isn't just the occasional tiff that gets made up with breakfast in bed the next morning. It is a lifestyle.

 As Max Hastings said, he is chaotically indisciplined and uncontrolled. This MATTERS when you're choosing a PM on nothing more than his personality.

[wing commander]

    Glyn they didn't record it "IN THEIR OWN HOME" did they??? he recorded it pressed up against his Front door.. I take it while your heart bleeds for the terrible injustice they have suffered at hearing a ten minute argument, alternatively you obviously feel it's perfectly acceptable that previous to that whilst leaving their home they should have to put up with the abuse she has given them by proudly boasting of giving them the middle finger everytime she see's them...

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds...

[wing commander]

   BST I have said before that I have no wish to see him become our PM.Probably as much as you don't..i'm questioning the direction this has taken and I'm tired of threads like this were the left amongst you want to use double standards to crucify people just because they are a Tory..I dare say if I went to town on the shadow cabinet,i could come up with just as many tales of infidelity..Infact didn't Corbyn himself commit adultery against his first wife with Diane Abbott???

If people want to debate Politics that's great,not a problem but if you are all trying to portray this couple as doing this for the good of the British public I'm not having it.They are every bit as nasty and vindictive as he is...

[Glyn_Wigley]

    Glyn they didn't record it "IN THEIR OWN HOME" did they??? he recorded it pressed up against his Front door.. I take it while your heart bleeds for the terrible injustice they have suffered at hearing a ten minute argument, alternatively you obviously feel it's perfectly acceptable that previous to that whilst leaving their home they should have to put up with the abuse she has given them by proudly boasting of giving them the middle finger everytime she see's them...

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds...

They live in the same building, don't they? They must have been able to hear it to know that there was a row going on!

My heart bleeds for anyone subjected to having to listen to neighbours arguing loudly, without warning and carrying on indefinitely as it's something I once had to suffer myself for several months. It shreds your nerves, badly. I even had to call the police myself when it once spilled out onto the pavement right outside my window and one was threatening the other with a knife.

Nowhere have I said that any abuse is acceptable, so you can take your crap extrapolation based solely on your idea of 'obviously' and shove your accusation of hypocrisy back in the orifice it came from.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wing Co

My point 3 above.

Johnson has no politics to debate. He makes it all about him. That's the entire point. You cannot debate politics with him because there is nothing to debate.

He has chosen to build his career on crafting a persona. The public, therefore,has a right to be informed about his persona. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

And as I keep saying, this isn't just a criticism from the Left. Read what his very right wing employer for a decade said about him.

[wing commander]

   Same to you sunshine!!!

[SydneyRover]

    Glyn they didn't record it "IN THEIR OWN HOME" did they??? he recorded it pressed up against his Front door.. I take it while your heart bleeds for the terrible injustice they have suffered at hearing a ten minute argument, alternatively you obviously feel it's perfectly acceptable that previous to that whilst leaving their home they should have to put up with the abuse she has given them by proudly boasting of giving them the middle finger everytime she see's them...

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds...

They live in the same building, don't they? They must have been able to hear it to know that there was a row going on!

My heart bleeds for anyone subjected to having to listen to neighbours arguing loudly, without warning and carrying on indefinitely as it's something I once had to suffer myself for several months. It shreds your nerves, badly. I even had to call the police myself when it once spilled out onto the pavement right outside my window and one was threatening the other with a knife.

Nowhere have I said that any abuse is acceptable, so you can take your crap extrapolation based solely on your idea of 'obviously' and shove your accusation of hypocrisy back in the orifice it came from.

Apparently the row was so loud the neighbours were going to ring Mark Field to come and separate them!

[BillyStubbsTears]

And here we go again on the subject of Johnson and trustworthiness.

Have a look at the video here from last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/22/video-reveals-steve-bannon-links-to-boris-johnson

Then look at the video here from today.
https://mobile.twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1143475744561139712

So there's the next PM lying through his teeth about an established fact, when put on the spot. Happy days eh? Of course, 20 years of the media softening people up by telling them that every politcian lies means that some folk on here won't give a shit. And they'll then lecture us about the sanctity of democracy, while this cheat and liar is in No10.

Oh. Little incidental issue. Carole Cadwalladr is the journalist who has been uncovering the links between Farage, Banks Bannon and Russia. She's now showing the links between Trump and Bannon.

She's had a shit heap of abuse thrown at here, including the Russian Foreign Office tweeting a video showing someone "jokingly" threatening her with a gun. Arron Banks and the Guido website have led the abuse,calling her Carole Codswallop. Interesting choice of words by Boris. Twice. Surely, you don't think he might be in cahoots with Banks and Farage? Surely not?

[Not Now Kato]

Boris is truly magic.  The only guy I know who can have short hair one day, long hair the very next, and then short hair the day after that!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYM_1tRztDc
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjYAb8IGGxc
 
Lies by photograph from the clown now!  Ye gods, what is this country coming to?

[BillyStubbsTears]

That's the thing NNK.

He's not even any f**king good at lying. But the idiots who support him do not care. They are dumbly and numbly allowing him to normalise the destruction of objective truth in politics.

[scawsby steve]

BST and Glyn Wigley

This is all about belief and perspective and where you're coming from. You're both Guardian reading lefties who are so blinkered that you refuse to acknowledge that there are always two sides to an argument.

Me? I'm a non- newspaper reader who voted Brexit, with no affiliation to any political party, and no trust in any of the politicians in Westminster.

This is probably why I'm not naive enough to believe that those two were genuinely concerned about their neighbour's welfare.

[Glyn_Wigley]

BST and Glyn Wigley

This is all about belief and perspective and where you're coming from. You're both Guardian reading lefties who are so blinkered that you refuse to acknowledge that there are always two sides to an argument.

Me? I'm a non- newspaper reader who voted Brexit, with no affiliation to any political party, and no trust in any of the politicians in Westminster.

This is probably why I'm not naive enough to believe that those two were genuinely concerned about their neighbour's welfare.

I've never read the Guardian, smartarse.

What's the other side to the argument here...that Boris didn't have a row with his girlfriend?

[Bentley Bullet]

The other side of the argument is it's none of your business.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The other side of the argument is it's none of your business.

When it goes outside of their own four walls and public money is spent on the police attending, it becomes a public matter whether you believe it should or not.

[wilts rover]

BST and Glyn Wigley

This is all about belief and perspective and where you're coming from. You're both Guardian reading lefties who are so blinkered that you refuse to acknowledge that there are always two sides to an argument.

Me? I'm a non- newspaper reader who voted Brexit, with no affiliation to any political party, and no trust in any of the politicians in Westminster.

This is probably why I'm not naive enough to believe that those two were genuinely concerned about their neighbour's welfare.

There might be two sides to an argument Steve - but there is always only one set of facts. How you might want to interpret those facts might differ - but the facts are still the facts.

A man who would be PM had an argument with his girlfriend that was so loud the neighbours were able to hear it and tape it. They were so concerned about what they heard that the police were called. The police had no problem with the taping (or anyone else taping a domestic violence incident) as if this were deemed a serious incident it would be useful as evidence. Thankfully it wasn't.

If he is prepared to act like that during a campaign to be PM - what else is he prepared to do and say? What other situations might he put himself in? Who else might be taping him?

Do you believe his explanations about the incident? Do you believe his explanations about the mysterious photo? If you do, please explain why, if you don't why do you believe he will sort out Brexit when he is unable to say what his plan is?

You can have your belief and I can have mine and I can say with certainty one of us is going to be badly wrong. I haven't yet seen or read anything to convince me it will be me.

[Bentley Bullet]

The other side of the argument is it's none of your business.

When it goes outside of their own four walls and public money is spent on the police attending, it becomes a public matter whether you believe it should or not.

But that side of it wasn't their doing, was it! It was the neighbours who didn't like him or his politics that did that. you know, the type of good neighbours who would not only do such a good thing in the name of being good neighbourly but would also contact the Guardian for them to have a w**k over, and then share with their readers to have a w**k over.

Political porno at its best!

[Not Now Kato]

That's the thing NNK.

He's not even any f**king good at lying. But the idiots who support him do not care. They are dumbly and numbly allowing him to normalise the destruction of objective truth in politics.

I bet they'll approve of his hobby too BST.
 
https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1143491303466053633

[wilts rover]

It wasn't long ago that the mail did a piece on Corbyn,he was trashed by people who used to work with him with various quotes on his behaviour towards others but that was just right wing scaremongering...

  At the end of the day once again people will base their arguments and opinions on which way their political leanings lie..

I believe the piece WC is referring to is the book about Corbyn that the DM serialised earlier this year.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/books/article-6758101/Corbyn-manage-finances-let-Britains.html

We had a thread on it
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=269013.0

I don't believe there was anything at all about his behaviour towards others, unless you call eating cold baked beans and loosing his house because he supported a community centre that, but WC can direct us to something as he made the allegation?

Be careful however because it has been called 'not just intellectually dishonest, it is a farrago of falsehood and insinuation' by that noted leftie Peter Oborne in his review of it.
https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1104370890203164673
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/tom-bower-book-dangerous-hero-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader-truth

So yes I think you have proved your final point there. An actual tape of an actual incident is the same as a badly written book that doesn't even have the type of information in it that you claim it has if that is the way your political leanings lie.

As that other noted leftie Max Hastings said in his piece this week talking about Johnson being unfit to be Prime Minister
'There is, of course, a symmetry between himself (Johnson) and Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn is far more honest'
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

Thats not me saying that. Thats the former editor of the Daily Telegraph.

[scawsby steve]

BST and Glyn Wigley

This is all about belief and perspective and where you're coming from. You're both Guardian reading lefties who are so blinkered that you refuse to acknowledge that there are always two sides to an argument.

Me? I'm a non- newspaper reader who voted Brexit, with no affiliation to any political party, and no trust in any of the politicians in Westminster.

This is probably why I'm not naive enough to believe that those two were genuinely concerned about their neighbour's welfare.

There might be two sides to an argument Steve - but there is always only one set of facts. How you might want to interpret those facts might differ - but the facts are still the facts.

A man who would be PM had an argument with his girlfriend that was so loud the neighbours were able to hear it and tape it. They were so concerned about what they heard that the police were called. The police had no problem with the taping (or anyone else taping a domestic violence incident) as if this were deemed a serious incident it would be useful as evidence. Thankfully it wasn't.

If he is prepared to act like that during a campaign to be PM - what else is he prepared to do and say? What other situations might he put himself in? Who else might be taping him?

Do you believe his explanations about the incident? Do you believe his explanations about the mysterious photo? If you do, please explain why, if you don't why do you believe he will sort out Brexit when he is unable to say what his plan is?

You can have your belief and I can have mine and I can say with certainty one of us is going to be badly wrong. I haven't yet seen or read anything to convince me it will be me.

Wilts, I like most of your posts; they're certainly less biased than many of the lefty posts on here, but you're wrong in suggesting that I'm a Johnson supporter. I've made it clear in previous posts that I don't rate him, or anyone else in Westminster. I've also said in other posts that I don't believe Brexit will ever be delivered by anyone. Parliament simply doesn't want it.