World Cup Thread

[BillyStubbsTears]

I’m not massively bothered what “they” say. There’s an implicit, unspoken assumption in those assessments, which is that they are judging players relative to the standard of the time. I’m talking about absolute standards.

Journalists often cite the Real Madrid - Eintracht Frankfurt European Cup Final of 1960 as the greatest match of all time. And I’m sure it was relative to it’s era. But in absolute terms?

Go and watch it. Tell me what you think.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1w8i41

[DonnyNoel]

Messi and Ronaldo have taken in to such heights that it'll be interesting to see what the next "great" achieves. These guys are putting in "goal-a-game" averages season after season and have scored so many hat tricks that the novelty of a hat trick has almost worn off. The player(s) to take their mantle may have to be judged a different way.

In some ways we're spoilt that there are two players to have a debate over. Only going from potted history but has there ever been two players competing for the title of best player for so long that have split opinon?

Pele was by himself, then Cryuff took over, then Maradona, maybe the early 90's was a bit blurry til R9 took over, then Zidane, possibly a Kaka vs Ronaldinho duel for a while after that before Messi and Ronaldo took over for a decade or so.

[Al4475]

Platini v Maradona maybe?

[DonnyNoel]

Platini v Maradona maybe?

Possibly in the mid 80's yes whien France were WC semi finalists and Euro 84 . Once a player shines at a World Cup like Maradona did though it's very hard to argue against. Fat little cheating t**t though he was

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't believe players are better now than they used to be. Look at Maradona, that fat bas**rd can't run about now like he used to.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I don't believe players are better now than they used to be. Look at Maradona, that fat bas**rd can't run about now like he used to.

Brilliant!

[MachoMadness]

This Brazil v Costa Rica game is not a great advert for South American football. Costa Rica don't seem interested in footballing, and Brazil would rather win a penalty than actually score.

[Boomstick]

Don't think Messi gets in the top 10 for best of all time for me. Overrated.
Needs world class players round him.
Always gets found out at world cups.

[DaveDRFC]

Why do people keep banging on about Nigeria's kit being amazing? It is absolutely horrendous!

[sheffield exile1]

Its really all relative as was said earlier. Stanley Matthews, teetotaller, non-smoker who had his own juice drinks was far ahead of the footballer of the era, but still stuck to the rigid 5-3-2 watch that cup final, all one dimensional as the magnificent Magyars showed us mid-50's. Anyone remember that "simulted" boxing bout years ago when TV technology was in its infancy and they had a "fight" Ali v Marciano as if they were in real time, to sort of "prove" who was really the best...silly really as its like comparing tea to coffee....Watched a Pele film/documentary recently where the manager wanted him to not play "ginga" style- the trademark loose dribbling unorthodox passing ...yet it would probably have been Garrincha "little bird" who, if he had fought his drink demons who would have had the ccolades of the era...

[dickos1]

Don't think Messi gets in the top 10 for best of all time for me. Overrated.
Needs world class players round him.
Always gets found out at world cups.

Last World Cup he did well, and he got them qualified all by himself.
To say he’s overrated is ridiculous look at all the goals he’s scored and the quality of his goals.
Never seen anyone run with the ball and beat people as easily as he does

[RedJ]

Iceland have shat it.

[NickDRFC]

Why do people keep banging on about Nigeria's kit being amazing? It is absolutely horrendous!

You might not like their kit but you must have liked that goal. To quote Alan Partridge's sports commentary "SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!"

[NickDRFC]

Don't think Messi gets in the top 10 for best of all time for me. Overrated.
Needs world class players round him.
Always gets found out at world cups.

I didn't agree with it and thought there were more worthy but Messi did get the Golden Ball for the best player at the 2014 World Cup, not sure if that's him being found out!

[Boomstick]

Don't think Messi gets in the top 10 for best of all time for me. Overrated.
Needs world class players round him.
Always gets found out at world cups.

I didn't agree with it and thought there were more worthy but Messi did get the Golden Ball for the best player at the 2014 World Cup, not sure if that's him being found out!

Aye, it raised more than a few eyebrows when he got it.
Just look at his embarrassment when he was  'awarded' it

[Tarkovsky_Mikluzhkin]

If memory serves Messi was handed the golden ball trophy about 10 mins after losing the wc final. I'd have been surprised and disappointed if he had been jumping for joy over a individual award at that point.
Having said that he definitely didn't deserve it, when Germany beat the 2016 Euro finalists 5-0 combined and South America's 2 highest ranked teams 8-1 combined - it's a little difficult to justify not giving it to one of theirs:
Kroos, Muller, ozil ... even neuer or lahm wouldn't have been silly. Messi didn't have a terrible tournement but a last minute winner v Iran isn't player of the tournament stuff for me.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Switzerland had a referendum a few years ago where they voted to clamp down on immigration. I wonder what their national side would be like now if they’d stopped immigration 40 or 50 years back.

Switzerland squad tonight:

Starting XI
1Sommer
2Lichtsteiner
22Schär
5Akanji
13Rodríguez
11Behrami
10Xhaka
23Shaqiri
15Dzemaili
14Zuber
9Seferovic

Substitutes

3Moubandje
4Elvedi
6Lang
7Embolo
8Freuler
12Mvogo
16Fernandes
17Zakaria
18Gavranovic
19Drmic
20Djourou
21Bürki

[redandwhitearmy]

What a massive goal that was for Switzerland in the dying minutes..
Serbia got a uphill task to get out the group now.

[Pancho Regan]

That was the best possible result for Argentina tonight.

Unless I’m wrong, if Iceland don’t beat Croatia (which they probably won’t) then Argentina just need to beat Nigeria to go through.

They will do it, I just know they will.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Switzerland had a referendum a few years ago where they voted to clamp down on immigration. I wonder what their national side would be like now if they’d stopped immigration 40 or 50 years back.....

Never mind 50 years ago, 9 of the curret squad were born outside Switzerland, and the coach Vladimir Petković (Yugoslavia).
Here's the countries they were born in and at what age they moved to Switzerland.

Starting XI
1 Sommer
2 Lichtsteiner
22 Schär
5 Akanji
13 Rodríguez
11 Behrami (Yugoslavia - 5)
10 Xhaka
23 Shaqiri (Yugoslavia - 2)
15 Dzemaili (Macedonia - 4)
14 Zuber
9 Seferovic (Bosnia and Herzegovina - ?)

Substitutes

3 Moubandje (Cameroon - 8)
4 Elvedi
6 Lang
7 Embolo (Cameroon - 7?)
8 Freuler
12 Mvogo (Cameroon - ?)
16 Fernandes (Cape Verde - 5)
17 Zakaria
18 Gavranovic
19 Drmic
20 Djourou (Côte d'Ivoire - 2)
21 Bürki

So two of them, plus the coach, playing against their country of birth.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Excellent research BRR.

On top of those 9, I THINK, the following are second generation immigrants:

Akanji
Rodríguez
Xhaka
Zakaria
Gavranovic
Drmic
Bürki

Quite an astonishing mix of players representing a country that has firmly put itself against immigration.

[selby]

  Put that lot together with Croatia and Serbia, pick the best and Yugoslavia would have a decent side nowadays.
  Probably a good job it broke up.

[Boomstick]

Excellent research BRR.

On top of those 9, I THINK, the following are second generation immigrants:

Akanji
Rodríguez
Xhaka
Zakaria
Gavranovic
Drmic
Bürki

Quite an astonishing mix of players representing a country that has firmly put itself against immigration.

Don't understand your point, if any country clamped down on immigration 50 years ago, their teams would be massively different.

[turnbull for england]

I think it's making the point that when the national team makes a clear point for the success of immigration, its an interesting situation to be in given the current position

[Boomstick]

What current position?
Surely it's a completely mute point.
If immigration was clamped down on 50 years ago, the course of history would have been completely different, and it's as equally possible that the players would have been just as good, worse, or better.

[idler]

What current position?
Surely it's a completely mute point.
If immigration was clamped down on 50 years ago, the course of history would have been completely different, and it's as equally possible that the players would have been just as good, worse, or better.

The trouble is that people don't listen to mute points.😉

[Bentley Bullet]

I agree with Boomstick. As interesting a point BST made I'm not sure what his message portrays. It's like asking if we'd banned transfers in the football league 50 years ago, relying on homegrown players only that were born within the area of their local team, how would it have affected individual team's position in the league ladder?

I imagine, although the tables would be dramatically different, the quality of the players wouldn't have been affected.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Let me get this right Boomstick.

You’re suggesting that if there hadn’t been immigration from Africa and the Balkans to Switzerland, the “indigenous” (stupid word but it’ll do for now) Swiss would have produced better players than they have done?

[Boomstick]

Let me get this right Boomstick.

You’re suggesting that if there hadn’t been immigration from Africa and the Balkans to Switzerland, the “indigenous” (stupid word but it’ll do for now) Swiss would have produced better players than they have done?

No I didn't say that, and you know it. Keep grasping at those straws laddo.

[BillyStubbsTears]

No. Accepted. I misread your post. My apologies.