World Cup Thread

[Pancho Regan]

just imagine the consequences of Russia beating Spain tommorrow

seeing Moses "exodus" from being an Englishman to Nigeria (Ross Barkley could have also been playing for them if he had "chosen wisely" ) reminds me conveniently of the phrase "parting of the RED sea" ... after lasts night result more like "parting of the path to the semi finals" for England

and if those "reds under the beds" could beat Spain think we could use McMillan's phrase 'you have never had it so good'

Yes, but imagine ‘so-called’ used-to-be USSR (don’t forget what happened with Poland...... NOT FUNNy) and West Germany (or do we just say GERMANy - convenient- haha!) when they meet Portugal ....... don’t even discuss RONAldo who lefty the MIGHtY Man Utd...... too much money????? Doubt it....... 2-1 anybody? Or 1-2 and lets see the replay........Doubt it!!!!! Hang on..... Germany already home talking to Neighbours Nederland....??



I think I’ve read so many of Coleman’s posts I’ve finally got it!!!

[RedJ]

I don't think anyone actually has any idea what he's trying to say the majority of the time.

[RedJ]

I don't think they'll be overly difficult but it is very easy to underestimate them, and underestimate them we should not.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Simple really.

If England can’t get to a final via a route that will probably pitch them against Colombia, Switzerland and Spain/Croatia, they’d be even less likely to get to the final via Japan, Brazil and France.

England has an easier potential route to the final than they would have had if they’d won vs Belgium. Full stop.

[NickDRFC]

Am I the only person who thinks Colombia will be really difficult opponents who probably deserve to go into the game as favourites?

It's all well and good plotting routes to the latter stages when there's a tough opponent up next who are very underestimated.

There's nothing whatsoever to suggest England are better than Colombia presently.

On what basis do they “deserve” to be favourites? We both have 2 wins and a defeat from the groups, but our defeat came when we played our reserves against one of the best teams in the world (who admittedly also played a reserve team), whereas they lost to an unfancied Japan. They looked very good against Poland but I wasn’t particularly impressed in their game against Senegal, and if James is injured that’s their biggest threat out. As RedJ says, it’s wrong to underestimate them but I’d still put us as favourites.

[GazLaz]

Am I the only person who thinks Colombia will be really difficult opponents who probably deserve to go into the game as favourites?

It's all well and good plotting routes to the latter stages when there's a tough opponent up next who are very underestimated.

There's nothing whatsoever to suggest England are better than Colombia presently.

On any know stats we have to be favourites. Columbia were the most over achieving/ falsely positioned team in the group stages. We are vulnerable due to our mental fragility. If what happened against Iceland happens again we could be playing Rosso Main and we wouldn’t win.

[Tarkovsky_Mikluzhkin]

England's strange combination of swaggering over confidence mixed with an inferiority complex, has meant at past tournament's they've struggled against not only teams with a history, tradition and experience to rival or even surpass our own (regardless of how good their current team is) but minnows such as Iceland 16 and USA 50 as well.

So I think a big part of the optimism about this world cup comes from the fact that in our half of the draw only Spain fit into either category (and their world cup history is almost identical to England's in its underachievement, So I wouldn't be surprised to see them gone before the SF). So they'll be no "we'll never beat them" attitude and no "even if we win by 5 the opponents were shite anyway" attitude, hopefully resulting in the England squad having reduced pressure and doubt.

Whether our current crop of quite average players can go deep in this tournament remains to be seen but they wouldnt be the worst team to Win/get to a Final/Semi-Final of a World Cup in history.

Colombia are better than our potential QF opponents. However, Sweden could physically neutralise us (especially the over reliance on set pieces) but at the last few world cups it was difficult to see us beating Uruguay, Italy or Germany. So I don't think aiming for Semis is getting too carried away as we will be playing teams that are beatable but not shameful and embarrassing to lose to.

[Tarkovsky_Mikluzhkin]

TEAM 3960

NOT AT WC:6
GROUP STAGE:5
2ND GROUP STAGE:1
L16:2
QF:4
4th PLACE:1
WINNERS:1

TEAM 3956

NOT AT WC:6
GROUP STAGES:3
2ND GROUP STAGES:1
L16:2
QF:6
4th PLACE:1
WINNERS:1

one of these is Englands World Cup record and one is Spain's. Not much different but they both have a big chance to get to their 3rd Final Four in Russia.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I’m struggling to think when a team worse than England’s current one (relative to the standards of the day) has won the WC since the War. Maybe Italy in 2006. They were not the best side but even they had Pirlo, Buffon, Gattuso and Cannavaro who are head and shoulders above the equivalents in this England side.

Not saying they can’t do it, but it would be the biggest WC upset of my lifetime.

[Tarkovsky_Mikluzhkin]

Uruguay and West Germany immediately after the War "worst" seems a bit harsh but most surprising perhaps. Schiaffino was one of the best 4 or 5 players in the world but you could argue that right now for Kane. The Germans in 54 weren't seeded in a group that contained Hungary, Korea Republic and Turkey - so yeah not fancied.
Maybe Italy 06 or Argentina 78 but point taken post 66.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I couldn’t comment on Uruguay and West Germany but I’ll take your points.

But harsh on Argentina.

They had Pasarella as the experienced hard man, Ardilles with glorious midfield skills and Kempes as good a striker as any in the world at the time.

You’d probably put Kane in Kempes’s class but there’s really no-one in this England squad to match the others. And Argentina had a strong second level of players in Luque and Bertoni. Plus home advantage and bribery, which meant that it wasn’t much of a surprise that they won!

[Tarkovsky_Mikluzhkin]

Home advantage and bribery? Good job we don't have host country's like that anymore.
I'd be more confident if this favourable draw we had was at a time when we had a more experienced team of top top players perhaps (at least a ferdinand,  Gerrard,  lampard, cole type of a few years ago) but we haven't. Some of the players are so young that who is to say that a Stone's, sterling, alli, tripier etc don't go on to have Stellar careers (Denmark were underdogs but in hindsight Schmeichel and the Laudrup's are considered amongst the best of their generation)
In 2002 we were the 2nd best team at the QF stage and drew the only team that would definitely beat us. This time we've got a couple of coin toss (or better actually around 63% probably) games away from a Semi that dependant on the opposition might be another coin toss. I for one thought we would at best be KO'd by Brazil or Germany in the QF so things could get very exciting.... they could go out or they could go through - and it hasn't been like that for ages!!

[BillyStubbsTears]

I agree that it's easy to call players legends with hindsight, after they have achieved greatness. But you need to compare like with like.

Raheem Sterling is currently the same age that Mario Kempes was in 1978. Harry Kane is a year older. Jesse  Lingard is the same age that Ardilles was in 78. John Stones is only a year younger than Daniel Pasarella was in 78 when we was THE mester of the tournament.

Kieran Trippier is 27 By the time they were 27...

Maradona had been the best player in history for half a decade.
Jurgen Klinnsman had played in 2 World Cup Finals and a Euro final.
Bobby Moore was 2 years past lifting the Jules Rimet trophy
Johann Cruyff had been the best player in the world for three years and was only a couple of years away from retiring from international football.
Zinedine Zidane was the best player in the world and had a World Cup winners medal in his trophy cabinet.

Yes, this English squad is relatively young. But it's not THAT young. If the players were going to mature into genuinely world-leading players, they should be doing it by now. This draw is the sort of chance that comes along once in a generation. If they are GENUINELY players of historic high quality, they will make the final. They'll not be so much better in 4 years time that they'd have a better chance than this.

[drfchound]

Even if England were to go all the way to the Final, and perhaps even win it, I can well imagine that there would still be people telling us that we only managed it because we had the easiest half of the draw,
won because the rest of the teams in it made it the worst for quality than for donkeys years, were lucky to beat so and so on the way, or any other excuse that they could dream up.

[Copps is Magic]

Argentinian player should walk for the second foul on Mbappe. Last man.

They can't cope with him at all.

[RedJ]

Even if England were to go all the way to the Final, and perhaps even win it, I can well imagine that there would still be people telling us that we only managed it because we had the easiest half of the draw,
won because the rest of the teams in it made it the worst for quality than for donkeys years, were lucky to beat so and so on the way, or any other excuse that they could dream up.

Especially the other home nations...

[GazLaz]

Argentinian player should walk for the second foul on Mbappe. Last man.

They can't cope with him at all.

Double jeopardy rule?

[NickDRFC]

Argentinian player should walk for the second foul on Mbappe. Last man.

They can't cope with him at all.

Double jeopardy rule?

Isn't that just for penalties? Was only a free kick on the edge of the box.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wonderful strike by Di Maria, but shite defending. The French players didn’t press and let him pick his spot.

[drfchound]

Wonderful strike by Di Maria, but shite defending. The French players didn’t press and let him pick his spot.

Irrespective of what the defenders did, nine times out of ten that shot would be over the bar.

A fantastic goal and maybe Di Maria should be given credit for finding space.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Any top rate player can strike a shot like that with ten yards space.

[GazLaz]

Argentinian player should walk for the second foul on Mbappe. Last man.

They can't cope with him at all.

Double jeopardy rule?

Isn't that just for penalties? Was only a free kick on the edge of the box.

Yes it is. I misread the post, I thought it said the penalty.

[Cantley Rover]

Come on now France, beat these cheating diving Argies

[Copps is Magic]

I'm talking about the one that led to Pogba's freekick that he skied.

I cant stand Argentina's dirty tactics in general. They are hacking down anything that moves.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here’s a funny thing.

We’re 3/4s of the way through the WC. But it’s really only just beginning. You tend to remember very little from the First round stage of a WC. The real memories and the outstanding moments of drama come from here on in.

Buckle up.

As I was saying...

[Copps is Magic]

As long as Mbappe doesn't become a daft lad, rich footballer and keeps his motivation to improve we're seeing one of the greatest footballers of the next generation.

[Tarkovsky_Mikluzhkin]

From 33s to 11/2 for the Golden Ball, No one's offering a price on Young player of the tournament as far as I can see.

[PDX_Rover]

Great game they. Glad France won. They play with strength speed and fluidity. Three great goals. Argentina a feckless bunch of louts. Adi-f**king-os.

[NickDRFC]

Mbappe was man of the match, and deservedly so, but it's not as if it's some kid who's come to the World Cup and excelled out of nowhere. This is someone who is committed to a £150m+ transfer to PSG this summer after all. If anything he's underwhelmed so far so it's good to see that there is something behind it that might justify the hype.

[Al4475]

Well who'd have thunk it? Germans out, Argentinians out and now ronaldo's lot out - all before England. Would've got good odds on that pre-tourny!