0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.
We're just too slow in our build up play, we need to learn how to counter like the Belgians do
Quote from: GazLaz on July 14, 2018, 05:11:58 pmPlayed very well second half. Plenty to build on. I agree, until we get around the box and then we struggle, Kane for the most part in the last two games has gine missing, not just him either, there just not enough movement in and around the box
Played very well second half. Plenty to build on.
Thing is, it’s all very well saying we’re x years behind Belgium or we just lack a deBruyne and a Hazard. We have NEVER produced players of that quality. We have never produced players with the combination of technical ability, drive and tactical nous/discipline that those two have. There’s something about the way our game is structured that stops us from producing players like that. There’s no sign that any of the current crop of young players are going to mature to become players of that standard.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 14, 2018, 10:03:42 pmThing is, it’s all very well saying we’re x years behind Belgium or we just lack a deBruyne and a Hazard. We have NEVER produced players of that quality. We have never produced players with the combination of technical ability, drive and tactical nous/discipline that those two have. There’s something about the way our game is structured that stops us from producing players like that. There’s no sign that any of the current crop of young players are going to mature to become players of that standard. Billy i dont know how long you have managed the urge to open your veins, but reading your comments on most things from football to brexit,i think you should call a help line before the deep dark abyss claims you. Bless you my son
Gazza DID lack discipline and that's something that should be hammered home to every England fan. He didn't care about the England team he only cared about himself. 90 He cried when HE would miss the final not the team, 94 he missed a load of qualifiers with minor niggles and was a disruptive influence in 98 before and after being dropped (and he also had loads of inappropriate tattoos probably)However at the end of Hazard and De Bruynes careers you could say "they were good but they were chokers when it came to the big international games" that's what we say about England's "Golden Generation" and if Baggio was English his name would be a swear word. So Gazza, Hoddle,Waddle and even Rooney would not look at of place on your list.
Nobody is suggesting we’re going to have players of the quality of de Bruyne and hazard. But when they were the same age as rashford, Ali, Loftus-Cheek cheek. Nobody would’ve been suggesting they would be the players they are now. Lineker, Shearer and Owen were better than some players on your list, add to that Robson, Gazza, sheringham, these were all amongst the worlds best players
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on July 15, 2018, 12:23:01 pmQuote from: dickos1 on July 15, 2018, 08:03:41 amNobody is suggesting we’re going to have players of the quality of de Bruyne and hazard. But when they were the same age as rashford, Ali, Loftus-Cheek cheek. Nobody would’ve been suggesting they would be the players they are now. Lineker, Shearer and Owen were better than some players on your list, add to that Robson, Gazza, sheringham, these were all amongst the worlds best players Dickos1) You make a fair point about age. That’s the challenge for that crop of players then. Can they mature from being the best that WE have, to bring the best that the world has. 2) You putting that list of players forward, depressingly makes my point for me again. You’re right. Those were AMONG the best players in the world. But EVERY country of any football pedigree produces players who are AMONG the best players in the world. My point is that the ones we produce do not hit the heights that the very, very best do. You list was mainly of goalscorers. I deliberately tried to steer clear of players who were predominantly goalscoring strikers because, frankly, they are very common at the highest level. So I didn’t mention Butrageno, Raul, Battistuta, Rossi, Papin, Klose, Suárez, Sánchez, Lewandowski, Larsson, Romario, Salas. All of those and many, many more, could be ranked alongside the ones you quote and most of them wouldn’t be considered to be in the top 20-30 of all time. Similarly you mention Robson who was a fine player. But in that mound, so we’re Viera, Keane, Gattuso and others, none of whom would be considered in the very top pantheon. But I can see I’m pushing water up hill. I’m asking why we don’t produce a Ronaldo or a Messi or a Zidane or a Maradona, or a Ronaldinho. And you suggest Sheringham. It’s what I was talking about in another post. Convincing yourself that what we have is the very best when it clearly isn’t.It's all very subjective though.Look at Claude Makelele and how highly Real Madrid's crop, including Zinedine Zidane, rated him.He wasn't a top player in terms of flair or quality, but he was the most important player in three club teams that he represented and absolutely outstanding in his role.Yet, shockingly, he was never considered as a superstar.
Quote from: dickos1 on July 15, 2018, 08:03:41 amNobody is suggesting we’re going to have players of the quality of de Bruyne and hazard. But when they were the same age as rashford, Ali, Loftus-Cheek cheek. Nobody would’ve been suggesting they would be the players they are now. Lineker, Shearer and Owen were better than some players on your list, add to that Robson, Gazza, sheringham, these were all amongst the worlds best players Dickos1) You make a fair point about age. That’s the challenge for that crop of players then. Can they mature from being the best that WE have, to bring the best that the world has. 2) You putting that list of players forward, depressingly makes my point for me again. You’re right. Those were AMONG the best players in the world. But EVERY country of any football pedigree produces players who are AMONG the best players in the world. My point is that the ones we produce do not hit the heights that the very, very best do. You list was mainly of goalscorers. I deliberately tried to steer clear of players who were predominantly goalscoring strikers because, frankly, they are very common at the highest level. So I didn’t mention Butrageno, Raul, Battistuta, Rossi, Papin, Klose, Suárez, Sánchez, Lewandowski, Larsson, Romario, Salas. All of those and many, many more, could be ranked alongside the ones you quote and most of them wouldn’t be considered to be in the top 20-30 of all time. Similarly you mention Robson who was a fine player. But in that mound, so we’re Viera, Keane, Gattuso and others, none of whom would be considered in the very top pantheon. But I can see I’m pushing water up hill. I’m asking why we don’t produce a Ronaldo or a Messi or a Zidane or a Maradona, or a Ronaldinho. And you suggest Sheringham. It’s what I was talking about in another post. Convincing yourself that what we have is the very best when it clearly isn’t.
Barely bet these days but gone a fiver on 3-0 and 3-1 France ! Probably a waste of one of the fivers !