Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson

[phil old leake]

Danum  I’m not supporting the Lib Dems I’m just suggesting that some Tory voters could defect to them that won’t vote Labour under any circumstances

[SydneyRover]

Danum  I’m not supporting the Lib Dems I’m just suggesting that some Tory voters could defect to them that won’t vote Labour under any circumstances

there's a whole boatload going to defect on the 23rd

[BillyStubbsTears]

Billy will that be enough to carry them through.

Let’s not forget there is still a lot of sympathy and support for the J Corbyns of the party

Not among MPs. Never was.

[phil old leake]

I think that could be up for debate Billy. Maybe not as left wing but there was support there

[danumdon]

Danum  I’m not supporting the Lib Dems I’m just suggesting that some Tory voters could defect to them that won’t vote Labour under any circumstances

Phil, no worries i was just pointing out that the Lib Dems have been found out by the other parties that in a coalition situation they stifle any sort of agenda and progression that the larger party wanted to implement, the Tories found out in 2010, Labour had their fill in the 70's with Callaghan's gov being dropped in the sh*t by them.

I think any party would be thinking very carefully about entering into any arrangement with these shysters, i just cant see a Labour party in this day and age agreeing to any coalition with minor parties as they would be completely held to ransom by them having to agree to unpalatable policies.

[SydneyRover]

That only leaves you the proud boys to vote for then dd

[Glyn_Wigley]

Danum  I’m not supporting the Lib Dems I’m just suggesting that some Tory voters could defect to them that won’t vote Labour under any circumstances

Phil, no worries i was just pointing out that the Lib Dems have been found out by the other parties that in a coalition situation they stifle any sort of agenda and progression that the larger party wanted to implement, the Tories found out in 2010, Labour had their fill in the 70's with Callaghan's gov being dropped in the sh*t by them.

I think any party would be thinking very carefully about entering into any arrangement with these shysters, i just cant see a Labour party in this day and age agreeing to any coalition with minor parties as they would be completely held to ransom by them having to agree to unpalatable policies.

Callaghan wasn't in coalition with them.

[danumdon]

Labour had a confidence and supply arrangement with the Libs during Callaghan's reign, so not strictly in coalition but in all intents and purpose it led to the same outcomes.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Danum  I’m not supporting the Lib Dems I’m just suggesting that some Tory voters could defect to them that won’t vote Labour under any circumstances

Phil, no worries i was just pointing out that the Lib Dems have been found out by the other parties that in a coalition situation they stifle any sort of agenda and progression that the larger party wanted to implement, the Tories found out in 2010, Labour had their fill in the 70's with Callaghan's gov being dropped in the sh*t by them.

I think any party would be thinking very carefully about entering into any arrangement with these shysters, i just cant see a Labour party in this day and age agreeing to any coalition with minor parties as they would be completely held to ransom by them having to agree to unpalatable policies.

History lesson.

The Tories campaigned on Austerity as their No1 policy in 2010.

The LDs were totally anti-Austerity in that campaign.

When they formed a coalition, what was the economic policy?

The Tories campaigned on trebling university tuition fees.

The LDs campaigned on never supporting that. Every single candidate signed a pledge on that.

What did the coalition do on tuition fees?

There's plenty of reasons to despise the LDs. Them stopping the aim of a bigger party ain't one of them.

[SydneyRover]

william haigh ........... johnson should look for an honourable exit ............

It must be for comic relief as that train left long ago

[River Don]

I wouldn't mind betting Cummings will be chucking another hand grenade before long.

[drfchound]

Talk tonight of a potential Labour /SNP coalition or some kind of support for each other at the next election

Can you imagine this county of our (The UK) being run by any party where the SNP have any influence

There’s also the issue of a potential leadership change in the Labour Party I’d KS and AR have to resign if they have been found to have breached the rules

There’s too many yet to happen factors before the next election.

The ma
Big winners may yet be the Lib Dems.  Disenfranchised true tories won’t vote Labour but they might vote Lib Dems

It could be a very interesting few months with lots of twists and turns. Nothing is a shoe in at this stage

Phil, if that first paragraph is true then it shows that Labour don’t feel particularly confident that they would be able to win by themselves.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This sums up the response from leading Tories.
https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1534084940278779904

[ravenrover]

"He was up against himself and nearly lost"

[drfchound]

This sums up the response from leading Tories.
https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1534084940278779904

I googled Yates to see who he is.
No one of any political importance really.

[SydneyRover]

I hope they have taken all sharp instruments away from the cabinet

[i_ateallthepies]

I hope they have taken all sharp instruments away from the cabinet

I hope they haven't.

[SydneyRover]

I hope raaab has a personal carer with him at all times

[Glyn_Wigley]

Labour had a confidence and supply arrangement with the Libs during Callaghan's reign, so not strictly in coalition but in all intents and purpose it led to the same outcomes.

A coalition would have had Liberal members of the Cabinet and they wouldn't have voted against a Government they were part of.

[danumdon]

Labour had a confidence and supply arrangement with the Libs during Callaghan's reign, so not strictly in coalition but in all intents and purpose it led to the same outcomes.

A coalition would have had Liberal members of the Cabinet and they wouldn't have voted against a Government they were part of.

The Liberals did what they should have done in 2010, they should of supported where they agreed and abstained or voted against where they disagreed, If these people keep harping on about PR then that was the exact time to force the issue, rather than go into coalition and have a complete damp squib of a PR referendum, they should of just offered the tories a confidence and supply arrangement, this would of allowed them to pick and choose their support on any policy that the biggest party suggested.

The fact that Clegg decided that he wanted all the trimmings of being deputy leader meant that instead of doing what was best for the country and forcing another election they enabled a period of austerity that did the vast majority no good whatsoever. Typical Liberals, stand for nothing, carp from the sidelines and hope to get a sniff of power off the coattails of someone else.

|How anyone can vote for these professional agitators who stand for nothing and if able to would ride roughshod over democratic principles. Disgraceful people. Don't even get me started of the current leader, who i'm sure certain individuals on here would not be very complementary to his handling of the energy and climate change gig when in power.looks like a good proportion of the current issues could be laid down at the door of this quisling.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Labour had a confidence and supply arrangement with the Libs during Callaghan's reign, so not strictly in coalition but in all intents and purpose it led to the same outcomes.

A coalition would have had Liberal members of the Cabinet and they wouldn't have voted against a Government they were part of.

The Liberals did what they should have done in 2010, they should of supported where they agreed and abstained or voted against where they disagreed, If these people keep harping on about PR then that was the exact time to force the issue, rather than go into coalition and have a complete damp squib of a PR referendum, they should of just offered the tories a confidence and supply arrangement, this would of allowed them to pick and choose their support on any policy that the biggest party suggested.

The fact that Clegg decided that he wanted all the trimmings of being deputy leader meant that instead of doing what was best for the country and forcing another election they enabled a period of austerity that did the vast majority no good whatsoever. Typical Liberals, stand for nothing, carp from the sidelines and hope to get a sniff of power off the coattails of someone else.

|How anyone can vote for these professional agitators who stand for nothing and if able to would ride roughshod over democratic principles. Disgraceful people. Don't even get me started of the current leader, who i'm sure certain individuals on here would not be very complementary to his handling of the energy and climate change gig when in power.looks like a good proportion of the current issues could be laid down at the door of this quisling.

I don't disagree. I was just pointing out that Callaghan wasn't in coalition with the Liberals, that's all.

[tyke1962]

Well the blonde buffoon survives till the day he hmmm doesn't I suppose .

Which in reality plays out that the Tory Party will eat itself and virtually hand the next GE to a coalition government made up of Labour , SNP and possibly the Dems .

A word of warning though .

So much as hint at a return to the EU in any shape or form either pre election or post from any potential Government coalition and I can guarantee you'll put the Tories back in the game and once back in the game you can pretty much work out how that plays out at the ballot box .

So I'd respectively suggest to the active remainers , kindly shut the feck up .

[albie]

Worth reflecting upon the thin margin giving Bozo a lifeline;
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-confidence-vote-zero-sum-game-b2095591.html

32......how many of these will get nervous if Tiverton goes against them?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Clegg is the worst politician of his generation, and f**k knows it's a low bar.

In 2010, he completely ditched the LD economic policy to join the coalition. He did it because of a combination of naivety and venial self interest.

Naivety: He was spun a line by the Governor of the BoE, at Cameron's request, that Austerity was required because there would be a Government funding crisis otherwise. That was utter b*llocks, as many in the economics profession were explaining at the time. But Clegg swallowed it, and ditched the LD economic policy (sensible Keynesian reflation) to embrace Austerity, with catastrophic consequences for our economy. And his price for this treachery? A referendum on an emasculated form of PR, with the vote coming at a time that he was the most hated politician in the country. Naivety beyond words.  Cameron and Osborne ran rings round him.

Venial self-interest: That got him his Deputy PM role. He destroyed the LDs as a serious electoral force for a generation by embracing all that Austerity required (like the tuition fee debacle) but he secured his own future. When finally got booted out of  Parliament, he walked more or less straight into a lucrative post on the board of Facebook.

It's like that scene in The Office. Bad news is, I've f**ked a party that spent 40 years selling itself to a comfortable section of the electorate as a cuddly left-of-centre bunch of nice people. But there IS some good news! I'm set for life.

[danumdon]

You forgot to add your piece about his cretinous mate who finally founds himself leader. Its a bit like the fat kid at school, prize for everyone even though you came last every time. Hopeless.

[drfchound]

Well the blonde buffoon survives till the day he hmmm doesn't I suppose .

Which in reality plays out that the Tory Party will eat itself and virtually hand the next GE to a coalition government made up of Labour , SNP and possibly the Dems .

A word of warning though .

So much as hint at a return to the EU in any shape or form either pre election or post from any potential Government coalition and I can guarantee you'll put the Tories back in the game and once back in the game you can pretty much work out how that plays out at the ballot box .

So I'd respectively suggest to the active remainers , kindly shut the feck up .

Tyke, I have seen one poster on here say that he would be happy for Labour to put forward a manifesto to gain power then change to other policies afterwards.

[River Don]

Well the blonde buffoon survives till the day he hmmm doesn't I suppose .

Which in reality plays out that the Tory Party will eat itself and virtually hand the next GE to a coalition government made up of Labour , SNP and possibly the Dems .

A word of warning though .

So much as hint at a return to the EU in any shape or form either pre election or post from any potential Government coalition and I can guarantee you'll put the Tories back in the game and once back in the game you can pretty much work out how that plays out at the ballot box .

So I'd respectively suggest to the active remainers , kindly shut the feck up .

I thought it was significant when arch Tory Brexiteer, Daniel Hannon wrote in the weekends Telegraph that leaving the single market may not have been the best idea.

I think the government has an enormous headache over Northern Ireland, there is no clear route forward, Brexit is stalled. The obvious way to unjam and retain the integrity of the U.K. would be to give way and remain in the single market. It would also solve problems at Dover.

If Boris wants to get Brexit done quickly then, I wonder if Hannon wasn't flagging the way?

[scawsby steve]

It would be a good result for Labour if he was going to last....but he isn't.

His best case is dragging on for another year, but if Tiverton is a wipeout, the Tories will change the rules to allow an earlier challenge.

No way are they going to allow him to blunder on to oblivion.
They need a new leader in place in time to let him (or her) gain traction with the public before 2024.

1) The time left for a replacement is now going to be much less than it would have been if they'd done Johnson in tonight.

2) Whoever the replacement is, it will be someone who voted for Johnson tonight. Gold dust for a Labour campaign.

3) The run up to the next election is going to be one of continued economic difficulty. Not brilliant for a new leader.

4) The Tory coalition now requires a leader to win support in Sevenoakes and Sunderland. That was Johnson's genius. It's a tough act to follow.

5) The state of the potential replacements...

I disagree with 2), BST. Jeremy Hunt was quite emphatic that he'd be voting against Johnson.

He's my tip for the next leader, and I think he could give Starmer trouble. JMHO.

[River Don]

BTW Hannons argument was the UK wasn't taking agvantage of being out of the single market by for instance lowering standards on imported products like chlorinated chicken.

If we weren't prepared to do that kind of thing, then we might as well stay in the single market.

[tyke1962]

Well the blonde buffoon survives till the day he hmmm doesn't I suppose .

Which in reality plays out that the Tory Party will eat itself and virtually hand the next GE to a coalition government made up of Labour , SNP and possibly the Dems .

A word of warning though .

So much as hint at a return to the EU in any shape or form either pre election or post from any potential Government coalition and I can guarantee you'll put the Tories back in the game and once back in the game you can pretty much work out how that plays out at the ballot box .

So I'd respectively suggest to the active remainers , kindly shut the feck up .

I thought it was significant when arch Tory Brexiteer, Daniel Hannon wrote in the weekends Telegraph that leaving the single market may not have been the best idea.

I think the government has an enormous headache over Northern Ireland, there is no clear route forward, Brexit is stalled. The obvious way to unjam and retain the integrity of the U.K. would be to give way and remain in the single market. It would also solve problems at Dover.

If Boris wants to get Brexit done quickly then, I wonder if Hannon wasn't flagging the way?

RD the Tories are masters at painting  their political rivals as the bad guys .

The way they pinned the total blame on Labour at the 2010 election tells you what they are capable of .

Labour and the other opposition party's have the Tories on the ropes punch drunk .

The Red Wall whilst not exactly kicking the door down to vote Labour will probably do so to punish Johnson .

As I say so much as hint of cuddling up to the EU in any shape or form and the Red Wall will punish Labour once again and we all know how that played out in 2019 .

There's more than a suspicion of the Partygate campaign against Johnson with its tentacles attached to active Remainers .

I'd kindly suggest they quit whilst they are ahead unless they fancy a real full on Brexiter nutjack in number 10 .

The current one is as fake as an Armani t-shirt on Ingoldmells market .

Start digging all this shyte up again and Labour won't be coming back this time .