Talk Your Way Out Of This One Johnson

[River Don]

BST, imagine you're in construction, a house builder or JCB and peace in Ukraine has been brokered one way or another, assuming Russia hasn't taken over completely.

Send Boris over there to press the flesh, he's going to win contracts,  he'll still have the connections in both governments. Can't fail.

[tyke1962]

Timeline of the folk on the Right in here.

2016-2020. Johnson's absolutely bang on! He tells it like it is.

2020. Ok, so he lies occasionally, but they're all the same.

2021. OK, so he lies more than any politician in history, but why do you go on about it so much?

Winter 2022. OK, so maybe you're right that he's a moral black hole, but I'd have seen that sooner if you hadn't made such a song and dance about it.

Spring 2022. Actually I knew that we was an amoral pathological liar all along.

Today. Yeah but Starmer.

Another 5 mins of your life that could of been better spent doing something useful. get the Mr's to wipe the froth away, people will start to talk!

Totally pointless.

Point is DD, it matters.

We've had years now of folk idly saying "they're all the same." When they AREN'T all the same.

Lazily doing this bothsides thing just opens to door for a true pathological liar like Johnson to walk in and shit all over the place. Because too many people have been prepared to excuse him on the grounds that he's no different from any other politician in his principles.

This time it's only resulted in the danger of renewed conflict in Ireland, a totally botched approach to a pandemic, a stunted economy and the possibility of the PM being compromised by the FSB.

Next time, if we don't start growing up on this theme, it could be REALLY serious.

Do calm down William it's unlikely millions of black shirts will be armed and roaming the streets anytime soon looking for ?........... Well don't worry in any case .

Johnson was abysmal , a liar , a chancer and a terrible PM but he's hardly left a legacy towards the country having it's version of Mussolini .

Instead we will have to put up with the cranks in the Labour Party pretty soon I guess .

God help us .

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST, imagine you're in construction, a house builder or JCB and peace in Ukraine has been brokered one way or another, assuming Russia hasn't taken over completely.

Send Boris over there to press the flesh, he's going to win contracts,  he'll still have the connections in both governments. Can't fail.

Aye, fair points.

[River Don]

The connections Johnson has in the rightwing media shouldn't be overlooked either. He will be a star opinion former/columnist if he wants to be. He has lots of wealthy friends.

It's been reported for a longtime, that Johnson intends to make a packet when he leaves government. It's come sooner than he wanted but now it's bound to be his objective.

[belton rover]

I can’t help thinking Billy’s actually disappointed that Johnson has resigned.
He’s like a problem gambler. It’s not the winning that excites them, it’s the almost winning.
Now Billy’s ‘won’ he will be like a little lost soul soon - after he realises it was all a bit of an anticlimax.

Until there’s a new slot machine to play with.

[drfchound]

The connections Johnson has in the rightwing media shouldn't be overlooked either. He will be a star opinion former/columnist if he wants to be. He has lots of wealthy friends.

It's been reported for a longtime, that Johnson intends to make a packet when he leaves government. It's come sooner than he wanted but now it's bound to be his objective.

My thoughts too RD.
I think that one or two posters are grossly underestimating him.

[River Don]

I think when historians look back, they will see Johnson as an extraordinary character. Maybe a template for future politicians. What he's done that is extraordinary was to make himself a celebrity. He embraced the media and doesn't mind feeding it with scandal. It's the life blood of the press.

The deeply negative aspect of Johnson is that it's so self centred. All about the pursuit of power.

Johnson will be more significant than Major, Cameron or May.

[IDM]

He’s still a f**king Kitson though..

He still can’t see that it’s not what the government has achieved whatever our views on that may be, it’s about his very flawed character.  He’s not fit to govern and has finally been found out by his nearest and dearest..

[River Don]

He’s still a f**king Kitson though..

He still can’t see that it’s not what the government has achieved whatever our views on that may be, it’s about his very flawed character.  He’s not fit to govern and has finally been found out by his nearest and dearest..

Oh, I agree. But there will be those learning from this episode.

[BillyStubbsTears]

He’s still a f**king Kitson though..

He still can’t see that it’s not what the government has achieved whatever our views on that may be, it’s about his very flawed character.  He’s not fit to govern and has finally been found out by his nearest and dearest..

Oh, I agree. But there will be those learning from this episode.

There will. And that's the worry.

The lesson that someone will learn is that you can drive a coach and horses through the principle that you don't lie in Parliament. As long as you're disciplined in the rest of your life, no-one will give a f**k.

You can flout whatever security procedures you want. As long as you don't deal incompetently  with sexual predators in your Govt, and expect colleagues to cover for you.

Case in point? Who in the Tory party or the right wing press has picked up on his Bunga Bunga party admission yesterday?

There will be some young, ambitious politicians learning the new rules of the game very quickly.

[drfchound]

He’s still a f**king Kitson though..

He still can’t see that it’s not what the government has achieved whatever our views on that may be, it’s about his very flawed character.  He’s not fit to govern and has finally been found out by his nearest and dearest..

Oh, I agree. But there will be those learning from this episode.

Case in point? Who in the Tory party or the right wing press has picked up on his Bunga Bunga party admission yesterday?

Probably all of them but there has been bigger things to talk and write about today.

[ravenrover]

A few questions as I have been on holiday this last week with no TV or radio, bliss
1 Did he actually use the word resign or did he just say standing down?
2 Is there a change here in that suddenly we believe everything he says will he stand down when the time comes?
3 Who will control him if, heaven forbid, he is PM until September?
4 Why is Raabid not stepping in to the temporary role, he is not reported to stand as future leader so no problem there
5 If Labour go ahead with a VONC and the piglet wins what happens then?
6 Has the confirmation that he had unattended meetings with Lebedev been pushed to one side in the furore of his standing down
7 If he stands down, and it's a big if, will the Standards Commitee still sit as to whether he mislead Parliament irrelevant of if he did it deliberately? If guilty what is the outcome?
8 If Russia now decides to broaden it's operations say into the Baltic states who makes the decisions regarding our response? Or to that matter to any development of political matters anywhere in the world
9 What decisions can this bunch of losers who have accepted positions in this temporary cabinet make?
10 When will Carrie Antoinette decide the time is up and bale out
11 Surely this reported "party" at Chequers can't be allowed to happen  good grief
I do not trust this man one iota so why is being allowed to remain in post

[Glyn_Wigley]

I think when historians look back, they will see Johnson as an extraordinary character. Maybe a template for future politicians. What he's done that is extraordinary was to make himself a celebrity. He embraced the media and doesn't mind feeding it with scandal. It's the life blood of the press.

The deeply negative aspect of Johnson is that it's so self centred. All about the pursuit of power.

Johnson will be more significant than Major, Cameron or May.

All Boris wanted was the trappings and adulation of power, but without the fag of actually having to do any of the work that goes with it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

As Marina Hyde brilliantly commented a few years back, Johnson always wanted to be PM and always wanted to have been PM.

It was the bit in the middle that he had trouble with.

[Branton Red]

A disgrace it's taken the Tories this long to get rid but thank goodness they finally have done so.

A good day for British democracy and shows the strength of our constitution.

We can remove our political leader mid-term if their behaviour/actions fall short of the people's expectations much more easily than countries with political Heads of State.

God Save the Queen (for as long as possible!)

[wilts rover]

Raven - too many questions to answer there but the main one - No, he hasn't resigned.

He has told the chairman of the 1922 Committee (and the Queen apparently) that he INTENDS to resign once a new candidate is chosen to replace him at some unspecified time in the future.

No one can make him resign if he doesn't want to, not even the Queen.

The 1922 Committee is just an internal Tory Party management body - they can pass a vote of No Confidence in him but he doesn't have to accept it if he doesn't want to.

The only way he can actually be forced out of office is if there is a majority who vote against his government in a vote of No Confidence in the HoC. By the rules of the HoC, the government falls and he then has to call a General Election within a set period of time.

[Filo]

One thing is clear to me, we need a written constitution, we can not carry on like we are now every unwritten rule has been trashed

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts

"No, he hasn't resigned.

He has told the chairman of the 1922 Committee (and the Queen apparently) that he INTENDS to resign once a new candidate is chosen to replace him at some unspecified time in the future."

Thanks for clarifying that. I suspected he'd not actually resigned but hadn't gone back to check.

As ever with a skilful pathological liar, the words will have been chosen very carefully.

[wilts rover]

There was some talk on the radio earlier that what he intends to do is let the new person take over, see them badly beaten in a GE, then get a campaign going to return to replace them.

That sounds far too much like a plan for anything Johnson might have come up with (or is prepared to stick too) but it does sound like something Lynton Crosbie might have come up with.

Crosbie's team have been advising Zahawi I saw the other day.

[SydneyRover]

The reign of terror is almost over and the 3 achievements talking points have been, we got brexit done, vaccine roll out and supporting Ukraine.

[Glyn_Wigley]

One thing is clear to me, we need a written constitution, we can not carry on like we are now every unwritten rule has been trashed

The rules are written down, just not in one document. It's not called an unwritten constitution because there's nothing down in writing.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I think the bigger point is that Johnson, for most of his time in office, has demonstrated that the constitutional conventions are meaningless if someone has the will to ignore them and Parliament can't or won't hold them to account.

He hasn't been done in because he flouted the rules endlessly. He's been got rid of because he became an electoral liability.

In future, there will be cannier ruthless politicians who will understand this lesson.

As someone said last night, history shows that once someone has demonstrated that you can smash the rules, it's a hard job to make them apply in future.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Johnson said something earlier today that I didn't get the point of earlier today but it's just struck me.

He said there'll be no major decisions on fiscal policy while he stays in No10.

This from the BBC:
At a cabinet meeting earlier, Mr Johnson told ministers he would not seek to implement "major changes of direction" or take "major fiscal decisions".

Just dawned on me what that means. It means no more Govt support for people being hammered by energy prices. Zahawi was lining up some big relief package, but Johnson appears to be vetoing that.

That would fit with Johnson. A final "f**k you" to the country and to his party's popularity.

[IDM]

I’m not surprised that he’s only acknowledged that his party no longer wants him as leader, whereas he hasn’t addressed WHY they have done that.

Utter bellend..

I’m also gobsmacked at the public interviews where people still support Johnson based on what they perceived in 2019 and what has been done since such as brexit and covid vaccines - but totally blanking his rule breaking and spineless character.. how can they miss that, even if they believe in his policies?

[belton rover]

Johnson said something earlier today that I didn't get the point of earlier today but it's just struck me.

He said there'll be no major decisions on fiscal policy while he stays in No10.

This from the BBC:
At a cabinet meeting earlier, Mr Johnson told ministers he would not seek to implement "major changes of direction" or take "major fiscal decisions".

Just dawned on me what that means. It means no more Govt support for people being hammered by energy prices. Zahawi was lining up some big relief package, but Johnson appears to be vetoing that.

That would fit with Johnson. A final "f**k you" to the country and to his party's popularity.

If he made any major fiscal decisions on the day of his resignation, you would call that an even bigger ‘f**k you’ to the country and his party.

But there you go.

[SydneyRover]

Shouldn't think the choice for a new leader should take that long really the tory party have shown whom they would preference, honest law abiding, competent faithful family persons need not apply.

[danumdon]

After the experiment of having a complete megalomaniac as leader the Tories will now want to adopt a saner, more sober and conciliatory leader, with the people who are rumoured to want to run its going to be a very middle of the road, one nation Tory. i think Johnson has scared off everyone from extremist leaders. That being the case there will be nothing more than a fag paper between the two main parties.

Who would you choose to run the country to the majorities advantage?

[Glyn_Wigley]

The ones who didn't prop up said megalomaniac?

[danumdon]

The ones who didn't prop up said megalomaniac?

True, and there are a great many who would choose someone else if given the option.

Its a bit like when Corbyn was in charge, how many of the labour back benches and disposed right wing element went along with him for party harmony, if they had the option at the time they would of chosen someone else but they didn't.

Remember saint Keith was Corbyns lieutenant and went along with his left wing nonsense, if he had been elected all the right wing who are now on the front bench would of sang to his tune until the opportunity came to stab him in the back. Its just politics.

[BillyStubbsTears]

DD.

Where have you been this last few years?

The 1 Nation Tories were drummed out of the party. The middle of the road Tory party you speak of simply doesn't exist!

Look at the ones who were kicked out.
Ken Clarke
Phillip Hammond
Justine Greening
Dominic Grieve
David Gauke

Or sidelined
Jeremy Hunt
Damian Green

The entire party has been taken over by a right wing cabal. Even under Thatcher, you'd never have had someone as extreme as Patel at the top of Govt. Or someone like Raab and Truss who are on record as calling the British workers "among the worst idlers in the world". Those are the people in control of today's Tory party. The sensible ones have all gone!