Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: IDM on May 23, 2020, 09:18:37 pm

Title: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 23, 2020, 09:18:37 pm
Another poster asked if there could be a poll to see how we think the season should end in League One.  Hope this works.!
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: drfchound on May 23, 2020, 09:19:34 pm
I think there are only two actual options anyway.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 23, 2020, 09:20:51 pm
The idea is to get folks’ opinions regardless.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: drfchound on May 23, 2020, 09:21:32 pm
Could you add another option then.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 23, 2020, 09:25:21 pm
Yes, which is.?
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: drfchound on May 23, 2020, 09:26:28 pm
Not trying to be disruptive here but “don’t care anymore” is my choice now.
I’m just brassed off with it all.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 23, 2020, 09:28:44 pm
If you wish - or if you don’t care, don’t vote!
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: karldew on May 23, 2020, 09:56:08 pm
Play out the season when practical, behind closed doors

If that’s not possible, null and void.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: keith79 on May 23, 2020, 10:14:09 pm
If the season is cancelled will bolton start next seson with point deducted  and will bury be allowed back in.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: BigH on May 23, 2020, 10:28:33 pm
Yes, which is.?
I'd support those in the automatic promotion spots going up.

The bottom two in the Premiership, Championship and L1 would be relegated.

The bottom team in L2 would be replaced by the top team in the National League.

Play offs cancelled; they're a lottery anyway. And anyone who would dare to argue that they would stay up from a bottom two position would be talking b***ocks.

Job done.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: selby on May 23, 2020, 10:42:49 pm
  Any promotion or relegation from the Premier League to the Championship if the Championship do not complete their fixtures and the Premiership do will end up with Legal action from one set of clubs or the other.
  Both will have to complete their fixtures without disruption if they restart for it to end without a court case.
   I see the Italian owner of Weeds is talking about a Premiership2 division again and cutting League 1 and 2 adrift again.
   Seems like a chap never to miss a chance of kicking people when they are down.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: BigH on May 23, 2020, 11:05:13 pm
Yep, that's a fair caveat Selby.

If any one league completes its fixtures then all bets are off.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: Donnywolf on May 24, 2020, 06:29:48 am
For me the only "totally" fair way for supporters to get "closure" on the Season is to play it out whenever that is posssible

In that was every game is played to a finish and was in the hands of the Players (of the supporters Teams) themselves rather than in the hands of the officials of Leagues and Clubs with all the different and arbitrary methods of finishing the Season off

However even that method is far from perfect and Owners and or Directors of the Clubs might neccessarily have a totally different outlook and pragmatism might be needed in the face of the pressures of commercial interests

I always go back to the Charlton (rained off game) where to this day people on here still hold the view that that result "cost us"

I dont share that view because there was no way to know if we might have lost the original game anyway and without all Teams playing out their fixtures this time around there may be lots of Teams going down who would still have that feeling of "being done" and likewise many Teams denied potential promotion who will feel they have "been done" too IF the games are not actually played out in full
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: keith79 on May 24, 2020, 09:10:13 am
I think we should finish this season (play the games) and start next season in November or December. Next season Cancel all cup competition. Play Only league games. Saturday,Wednesday, Sunday.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: Chris Black come back on May 24, 2020, 09:18:16 am
I voted for weighted home and away ppg. Seems the best of a bad bunch. The play offs might attract decent TV viewing so for those teams they at least get to wash their face financially to play these limited number of games. For rest of us - feet up and prepare for next season.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: RedRover45 on May 24, 2020, 09:49:19 am
Don’t know if anybody else has considered this option or if I’m just thinking outside the box ?
What if, when it’s clearly safe to do so, start the next full 44/46 game season with a starting total of the points that the team had at the end of this truncated season. Nobody gets promoted or relegated from this season but they have an acquired advantage from the games already played. The teams near the bottom have ample opportunity to get themselves out of the problem they are in by the next 44/46 games and teams near the top have an acquired advantage but still have work to do to earn promotion.
No-one can say they haven’t been given the chance and no team is having to spend money they don’t need to. We can then think about football only when it’s safe to do so.
Call the season 2019/2021 if it sits easier.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 24, 2020, 10:04:16 am
It’s a reasonable idea, but at the moment not every team has played the same amount of games, and some will have had the opportunity to play the weaker sides twice, and others the stronger sides twice, and vice versa.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: idler on May 24, 2020, 10:04:53 am
This massively favours the richer clubs though. They can spend far more than a team that has stretched to be where they are now but don't have the finances to strengthen for a new full season.
We are where we are this season with the current squad of players. Starting next season with a different squad will give different results.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: RedRover45 on May 24, 2020, 10:22:51 am
It’s a reasonable idea, but at the moment not every team has played the same amount of games, and some will have had the opportunity to play the weaker sides twice, and others the stronger sides twice, and vice versa.

I’m sure it wouldn’t be difficult to iron out the one or two game difference that exists somehow providing the rules are laid out and agreed by every team with 9 months notice.
There isn’t a 100% ideal scenario so things like who’s played who in the 35/36 games played so far would have to be an incidental minor detail.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: silent majority on May 24, 2020, 10:30:10 am
I'm not sure why we've options that won't happen, it's not on the table for various options so why does our opinion really count? Without the ins and outs of the financial constraints, budget deficits, future funds going forward, contract liabilities and the options of losing numerous members of staff then we can't really offer an opinion that matters.

The clubs have had to consider all of the above and to try to steer their individual clubs through this mess and hopefully come out the other side intact if not the same. I've yet to see most supporters appreciate just how perilous the situation is. It's mission critical for some already.

The good news is that the EPL have finally agreed that they have to play a bigger part going forward.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: drfchound on May 24, 2020, 10:31:43 am
Interesting that the most expensive, to the clubs, option of playing out the season behind closed doors is currently leading the vote.
Our own club manager has said he wants to end the season straight away but our own fans want the opposite.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: RedRover45 on May 24, 2020, 10:35:47 am
IDM

Would you mind humouring me and adding my suggestion to the list of options please. I’d be interested in what people think. Cheers.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 24, 2020, 10:42:11 am
IDM

Would you mind humouring me and adding my suggestion to the list of options please. I’d be interested in what people think. Cheers.

Done.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 24, 2020, 10:45:06 am
I'm not sure why we've options that won't happen, it's not on the table for various options so why does our opinion really count? Without the ins and outs of the financial constraints, budget deficits, future funds going forward, contract liabilities and the options of losing numerous members of staff then we can't really offer an opinion that matters.

The clubs have had to consider all of the above and to try to steer their individual clubs through this mess and hopefully come out the other side intact if not the same. I've yet to see most supporters appreciate just how perilous the situation is. It's mission critical for some already.

The good news is that the EPL have finally agreed that they have to play a bigger part going forward.

I put up the poll because another poster asked for one.

I included the options I could think of, whether they are still on the table or not, practical or not, simply to facilitate the other poster’s request to see what the opinions were.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on May 24, 2020, 10:46:30 am
If you wish - or if you don’t care, don’t vote!

I don't care anymore either, as long as the clubs reach an agreement themselves. But how will we know how many people feel like me and hound if we just don't vote and there's no record of it?
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 24, 2020, 10:51:08 am
If you wish - or if you don’t care, don’t vote!

I don't care anymore either, as long as the clubs reach an agreement themselves. But how will we know how many people feel like me and hound if we just don't vote and there's no record of it?

This is only a forum poll, it’s not binding on anything and as SM points out, some options can’t or won’t happen.

There is a don’t care option anyway.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: silent majority on May 24, 2020, 11:11:30 am
I'm not sure why we've options that won't happen, it's not on the table for various options so why does our opinion really count? Without the ins and outs of the financial constraints, budget deficits, future funds going forward, contract liabilities and the options of losing numerous members of staff then we can't really offer an opinion that matters.

The clubs have had to consider all of the above and to try to steer their individual clubs through this mess and hopefully come out the other side intact if not the same. I've yet to see most supporters appreciate just how perilous the situation is. It's mission critical for some already.

The good news is that the EPL have finally agreed that they have to play a bigger part going forward.

I put up the poll because another poster asked for one.

I included the options I could think of, whether they are still on the table or not, practical or not, simply to facilitate the other poster’s request to see what the opinions were.

Fair enough.

Personally, my heart says resume the current season, but my head says that would be disastrous and would endanger the club putting us in a situation we may never recover from.

For that reason I can't vote at all.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 24, 2020, 11:14:55 am
Ok no worries.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: phil old leake on May 24, 2020, 11:39:39 am
I’d opt for void it full stop

I’m also with drfchound. I’m bored of it and find it difficult to understand why there is a league committee if it’s not going to make decisions

The idea of a management committee is to take into account the opinion of its members (which i would like to think has happened ) assess all the information and make a decision

That’s what they are there for.  This has dragged on to the benefit of no one. 

That’s why I believe in voiding full stop or deciding to play it out before a certain date No matter which other way it’s decided someone somewhere will have their face put out and have good reason to complain and challenge

But for gods sake sort this mess out
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: RedRover45 on May 24, 2020, 11:49:27 am
IDM

Would you mind humouring me and adding my suggestion to the list of options please. I’d be interested in what people think. Cheers.

Done.

Thank you
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: silent majority on May 24, 2020, 12:52:59 pm
I’d opt for void it full stop

I’m also with drfchound. I’m bored of it and find it difficult to understand why there is a league committee if it’s not going to make decisions

The idea of a management committee is to take into account the opinion of its members (which i would like to think has happened ) assess all the information and make a decision

That’s what they are there for.  This has dragged on to the benefit of no one. 

That’s why I believe in voiding full stop or deciding to play it out before a certain date No matter which other way it’s decided someone somewhere will have their face put out and have good reason to complain and challenge

But for gods sake sort this mess out

It's a members organisation.

They listen to the views of their members, they provide recommendations, and then the members vote.

They are currently allowing the members to consider the recommendations and will vote next week, by a simple majority, on the two alternatives. There hasn't been a desperate rush to reach this point, and the hope was always to restart the season, but we're at a point where a decision needs to be made.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: since-1969 on May 24, 2020, 12:59:42 pm
There a more important issues with regards to football going forward that need addressing NOW . Mainly how many clubs will be able to start a new season if restrictions are still in place .
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 24, 2020, 01:05:14 pm
There a more important issues with regards to football going forward that need addressing NOW . Mainly how many clubs will be able to start a new season if restrictions are still in place .

No one is saying that isn’t important.  This is just a simple snapshot of what forum members think about ending the season, nothing more and nothing less..
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: RoversAlias on May 24, 2020, 01:40:09 pm
5 of the 6 proper options all fairly evenly split, that tells you how difficult getting this right is going to be for those in charge of making it so.

I'm past wanting it finished now, well past in fact. But I'm dead against voiding and rendering all that work, time and effort pointless. PPG of either kind is the best solution for me and promotion/relegation kept in place. It's a one-off circumstance and that's just how it is, some will lose out.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: ravenrover on May 24, 2020, 02:04:26 pm
I think we should finish this season (play the games) and start next season in November or December. Next season Cancel all cup competition. Play Only league games. Saturday,Wednesday, Sunday.
OK for week 1 then what?
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: NewDonny on May 24, 2020, 02:10:17 pm
5 of the 6 proper options all fairly evenly split, that tells you how difficult getting this right is going to be for those in charge of making it so.

I'm past wanting it finished now, well past in fact. But I'm dead against voiding and rendering all that work, time and effort pointless. PPG of either kind is the best solution for me and promotion/relegation kept in place. It's a one-off circumstance and that's just how it is, some will lose out.

Exactly.

At the moment from the small numbers that have voted on this PPG of some sort (weighted or unweighted) has gained the most votes between them.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: since-1969 on May 24, 2020, 02:15:28 pm
I think we should finish this season (play the games) and start next season in November or December. Next season Cancel all cup competition. Play Only league games. Saturday,Wednesday, Sunday.
. It’s about sustainable finance “ Cancel all cup compilations?” . I say trim the league and have more cup comps’ and give league bonus points to every team that go through to the next round , providing insensitive to every team to compete in . Our systems needs a complete overall with the view to attracting  support and more integration of all Efl clubs and providing a levelling of the status with greater distribution of earnings throughout the league .
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: scawsby steve on May 24, 2020, 02:34:42 pm
I think we should finish this season (play the games) and start next season in November or December. Next season Cancel all cup competition. Play Only league games. Saturday,Wednesday, Sunday.
. It’s about sustainable finance “ Cancel all cup compilations?” . I say trim the league and have more cup comps’ and give league bonus points to every team that go through to the next round , providing insensitive to every team to compete in . Our systems needs a complete overall with the view to attracting  support and more integration of all Efl clubs and providing a levelling of the status with greater distribution of earnings throughout the league .

How is having more cup comps going to attract more support? The attendances for cup games in all comps over the last few seasons have been atrocious, for all clubs.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: silent majority on May 24, 2020, 02:36:51 pm
I think we should finish this season (play the games) and start next season in November or December. Next season Cancel all cup competition. Play Only league games. Saturday,Wednesday, Sunday.
. It’s about sustainable finance “ Cancel all cup compilations?” . I say trim the league and have more cup comps’ and give league bonus points to every team that go through to the next round , providing insensitive to every team to compete in . Our systems needs a complete overall with the view to attracting  support and more integration of all Efl clubs and providing a levelling of the status with greater distribution of earnings throughout the league .

How is having more cup comps going to attract more support? The attendances for cup games in all comps over the last few seasons have been atrocious, for all clubs.

Also, 'trim the league'? That means playing less games, which means reducing revenue, which means more financial peril. No chance!
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: since-1969 on May 24, 2020, 02:48:26 pm
I think if more was at stake like a League points bonus this would incentivise more teams who’s league position was paramount to take part . We all know larger teams preserve their players and field youth players and by this  lessen the importance of the cup competition and more over the interest of supporters over all .

Premier League clubs and Championship clubs that every year battle just to stay in the PL would be  more inclined to field more first team players as bonus points could be earned towards their league position and perhaps more supporters would  attend if they knew that a cup victory can provide points as well as a next round draw . Cup shocks would still happen with the bonus points going to the lower league club and proved them with greater assurance that the extra points gained could keep in the promotion race or stave off relegation. 
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: since-1969 on May 24, 2020, 02:49:58 pm
I think we should finish this season (play the games) and start next season in November or December. Next season Cancel all cup competition. Play Only league games. Saturday,Wednesday, Sunday.
. It’s about sustainable finance “ Cancel all cup compilations?” . I say trim the league and have more cup comps’ and give league bonus points to every team that go through to the next round , providing insensitive to every team to compete in . Our systems needs a complete overall with the view to attracting  support and more integration of all Efl clubs and providing a levelling of the status with greater distribution of earnings throughout the league .

How is having more cup comps going to attract more support? The attendances for cup games in all comps over the last few seasons have been atrocious, for all clubs.

Also, 'trim the league'? That means playing less games, which means reducing revenue, which means more financial peril. No chance!
But more lucrative cup games against top teams .
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: drfchound on May 24, 2020, 03:51:04 pm
5 of the 6 proper options all fairly evenly split, that tells you how difficult getting this right is going to be for those in charge of making it so.

I'm past wanting it finished now, well past in fact. But I'm dead against voiding and rendering all that work, time and effort pointless. PPG of either kind is the best solution for me and promotion/relegation kept in place. It's a one-off circumstance and that's just how it is, some will lose out.







Hi RA. Although I am in the don’t care anymore group, if I was pushed and had to make a decision it would be the ppg one.
Weighted or unweighted.........well, I don’t care, just get it done.
I am with you on the other things you have mentioned.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: since-1969 on May 24, 2020, 04:29:58 pm
I think we should finish this season (play the games) and start next season in November or December. Next season Cancel all cup competition. Play Only league games. Saturday,Wednesday, Sunday.
. It’s about sustainable finance “ Cancel all cup compilations?” . I say trim the league and have more cup comps’ and give league bonus points to every team that go through to the next round , providing insensitive to every team to compete in . Our systems needs a complete overall with the view to attracting  support and more integration of all Efl clubs and providing a levelling of the status with greater distribution of earnings throughout the league .

How is having more cup comps going to attract more support? The attendances for cup games in all comps over the last few seasons have been atrocious, for all clubs.

Also, 'trim the league'? That means playing less games, which means reducing revenue, which means more financial peril. No chance!
But more lucrative cup games against top teams .
I suppose what I’m saying IS make the cup games mean more that just the next round by giving league points for the win and give them more incentives and perhaps fans may just get more interested in the outcome .
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: NewDonny on May 24, 2020, 06:15:30 pm
I think we should finish this season (play the games) and start next season in November or December. Next season Cancel all cup competition. Play Only league games. Saturday,Wednesday, Sunday.
. It’s about sustainable finance “ Cancel all cup compilations?” . I say trim the league and have more cup comps’ and give league bonus points to every team that go through to the next round , providing insensitive to every team to compete in . Our systems needs a complete overall with the view to attracting  support and more integration of all Efl clubs and providing a levelling of the status with greater distribution of earnings throughout the league .

How is having more cup comps going to attract more support? The attendances for cup games in all comps over the last few seasons have been atrocious, for all clubs.

Also, 'trim the league'? That means playing less games, which means reducing revenue, which means more financial peril. No chance!
But more lucrative cup games against top teams .
I suppose what I’m saying IS make the cup games mean more that just the next round by giving league points for the win and give them more incentives and perhaps fans may just get more interested in the outcome .

But that's the point 69, whereas the FA Cup & League Cup (or whatever it is called today) were popular, both have diminished in importance to sides  and because of that a viewing spectacle as well, so noon is going to get behind another cup. I mean look how this seasons EFL Leasing.com Trophy games bombed for example.

No, if next season is held over until it's safer both to play and watch then the way forward is to reduce cup games and place greater emphasis on the league and time to complete fixtures.

Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 24, 2020, 06:18:57 pm
Agreed ND.

If the time period to complete next season is shortened then the first casualties should be the EFL trophy and the league cup.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: drfchound on May 24, 2020, 06:40:48 pm
I said just that quite a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: selby on May 24, 2020, 07:13:59 pm
  Tell the premiership sides if they want to play reserve sides of less than 8 players who started the last two premiership games they must enter the cup in the first round proper with league one and two sides.
  They purport to want their u 23 sides to play against league opposition give them the chance.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: since-1969 on May 24, 2020, 08:29:20 pm
The league is more important then a good cup run that’s for sure . Every club in League 1 would have played two games less if the season had ended due to Bury’s demise so what would 4 or more going bust do to games . Cup games need to have more relevance to the game than just hoping of having a good run to get some extra cash in the till . I would propose league points being earned as well to give an edge to each game at the end of the season and playoffs could be scrapped as accumulating bonus points for cup runs would be included and establish the true form teams of that season .
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 24, 2020, 08:35:57 pm
How does that work if in round 3 Doncaster are drawn away at Manchester City and get hammered, yet another league one team draw a league 2 side at home, and win easily?

How does that make sense for awarding league points for cup games.?
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: since-1969 on May 24, 2020, 08:54:27 pm
It’s big payday or points or both . But cup runs do happen but give nothing to your league position at the end so win a few games in any cup match then your points to the good as a bonus .
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: IDM on May 24, 2020, 09:04:32 pm
Sorry but there is no logic in your idea.  You are entitled to have it, of course.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: since-1969 on May 24, 2020, 09:29:28 pm
Sorry but there is no logic in your idea.  You are entitled to have it, of course.
Thank you .. . Not finishing the season seems to rank for me as everyone has  unfinished business . It was an interesting season with a new manager , great loan players and all those away games still to play . We will never know how things would have ended and if we could have scraped a playoff place . It just seems that we have entered the twilight world where everyone had hit the stop button and no one knows to restart it .
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: drfchound on May 24, 2020, 10:15:59 pm
Good words to end this thread on really.
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: keith79 on May 25, 2020, 04:56:03 pm
I think we should finish this season (play the games) and start next season in November or December. Next season Cancel all cup competition. Play Only league games. Saturday,Wednesday, Sunday.
OK for week 1 then what?
same the week after if you play Saturday you play Wednesday. If you play Wednesday you then play Sunday. If you play Sunday then you next play Saturday. If you play Saturday you next play Wednesday. Ect ect
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: stuey on May 27, 2020, 11:59:26 pm
Anything that stops Rovrum going up is good with me
Title: Re: League One Conclusion
Post by: since-1969 on May 28, 2020, 11:44:59 am
Anything that stops Rovrum going up is good with me
A true sportsman!