Promotion Question

[Belle-Vue-Ghost]

I've had a few interesting conversations this morning with friends and also on here regarding our current situation.  It led me to think do we want to/are we ready to get promoted this season.

In my view whatever happens we've had a really good season.  Both on the field and off the field.  Remember at the start of the season a lot of us just didnt want to get relegated again, another set of us were happy with mid-table, others thought we might get top 10 or even sneak a play-off spot.

Even though we are thread bare at the moment in terms of the squad, i feel we will at least get a play-off spot.  10-12 points from our remaining 11 games will secure this, and its perfectly achievable looking at our home games alone.

However:

I dont think we're ready.  If we go up this season I dont think we will have the finances or the pulling power to compete in the championship.  We'd get battered 8 weeks out of 10.  The standard is just a whole different level compared to what we're playing at the moment.

This season is one that i've enjoyed the most for about 3 years.  We've got our identity back.  League One tour!!  The IRWT project has brought the fans closer to the club.  We now dont have to compete with the SMC with regards to the ground.  Theres more incentives to become a season ticket holder.  Help design the kit.  Its been fantastic.

Whatever anyone thinks, this season has been 10x better than YOU expected.  If we are still in this league next season so what!  I think it would be an advantage if anything.  We can have a clear out of players who dont feature or have a big impact, and replace them with better quality.  I honestly dont think we'd loose any of our better players either, maybe with the exception of Spurr.  After this we would be in a much better position to gain promotion and actually COMPETE in the championship.

If we go up this year and start getting hammered every week a lot of the good work could be undone.

What does everyone else think

[Spud]

I agree to a degree but the gulf between tiers 2 & 3, both financially and on the field has much widened, so much so that us and most other teams at this level can only build a team for the league they're currently in (if we're still in l1 next season we're hardly gonna have a team ready to be competing in the championship).
As a result, whoever gets promoted is gonna have a big re-building job in the summer and will find it hard to hit the ground running come august. I think we'll see more yo-yo clubs than ever unless we ever come out of recession again !!! Just my humble opinion.

[dknward2]

Sorry but i think that we will lose a few players at the end of the season as most wont want another season in league one and most came to work with deano

[Donnyrovers]

This season who ever goes up is going to need a lot of investment next season to survive in the championship but this season is going to be one of the best opportunities to get out of this league. When you look at the teams that may come down this season from the championship, next season it is going to be a tough division and then you will have the teams from this division pushing on as well.

In my opinion we have to push on and try and go for promotion because I feel next season it has the potential to be tough battling for the play offs.

[hoolahoop]

This season who ever goes up is going to need a lot of investment next season to survive in the championship but this season is going to be one of the best opportunities to get out of this league. When you look at the teams that may come down this season from the championship, next season it is going to be a tough division and then you will have the teams from this division pushing on as well.

In my opinion we have to push on and try and go for promotion because I feel next season it has the potential to be tough battling for the play offs.

I pointed this out earlier, it's going to get tougher not easier because we've had a chance to rebuild for another season. Quite simply it won't and we won't /can't to pay for Tier 2 players at this level

[Dare to dream!]

If we don't go up this season I fear we may be here for a long time to come

[RedArmy]

If the type of player we're trying to sing are players such as mark wilson then it doesnt show me that we want promotion

[DRNaith]

Leeds were stuck in this league for a few seasons which to me shows that you can't solely buy your way out of this league.  Yes getting the best players that you can helps and a 15 point deduction doesn't help, but the board do have to be cautious too.

As a fan I'd say "sign some big names and get us out of this", with my business head on I would only want us to throw the sort of money in that we can sustain should still be in league one next season!

We're not a big club, we've seen much bigger clubs go to the wall because of over-spending, how much easier would it be for a pub team like us? How much less would it take?

Tricky innit

[weststander]

Sorry but i think that we will lose a few players at the end of the season as most wont want another season in league one and most came to work with deano

Based on the home games I have seen this season (all but 2), most of this squad couldn't hack it at a higher level

[whisky]

The teams with the most points at the end of the season are the teams that are ready for promotion.

[Chris Black come back]

We haven't got enough players and we do not have enough Championship quality players.

Last time: Sullivan, Roberts, Mills, Jimmy, Copps, Stock, Wellens, Green all easy good enough for the Championship.

Now? Spurr, Copps, Cotterill if he can be arsed?

[drfcsteve]

We'll never have a better chance to escape league one so we need to take it, however even if we go up as champions our squad is not going to survive in the championship. It will need money spent on it, money we will get from being promoted. To suggest we build a championship squad whilst in league one so we are prepared to go up is not possible for this club, where would the money come from?

[Chris Black come back]

This is the fatal weakness. We haven't got the money either now or even after promotion to build a Championship squad (or even a team). This is aside from the fact that putting together a Championship squad in the close season is barely credible or anything like an effective way of preparing for the new season. In 2008 we had several Championship level players. We have nothing approaching that now. Serious cause for concern.

[IDM]

Let's wait and see....  If we go up, rebuild then.  More incentive to finish top 2 as this will give us 2/3 weeks longer to prepare than if we are in the play offs.

My time following Rovers is from the last 35 years or so - but we're discussing if we can survive in division 2.

Division 2 - luxury compared to where we've been!!!!!

[mrfrostsdad]

Most of the players won't want another season in League 1??
No, you're right, because for a few they are not good enough for League 1. The majority of the remainder have found their level. I reckon I could count on half a hand the players who would hold their own in the Championship

[normal rules]

Someone needs to ask Radio Sheff to ask JR what he would prefer. Promotion and the money that comes with it and poss a season like last year or another year or three in league 1. I think i know what the answer will be.

[silent majority]

Someone needs to ask Radio Sheff to ask JR what he would prefer. Promotion and the money that comes with it and poss a season like last year or another year or three in league 1. I think i know what the answer will be.

Do you? I know that JR and the rest of the board are determined to go for promotion this year. They have funded the large gap between income and expenditure for one reason only.

[normal rules]

SM, i will never, ever, question John Ryan's committment to DRFC as a football supporter himself.

However, let us not forget. He is a businessman, with an astute business acumen, which is why he is where he is now. He made his money through cosmetic surgery not by wearing his heart on his sleeve but by good business sense. He knows that Doncaster Rovers will not make him money. We punch above our weight and he balances his passion for football and Doncaster Rovers with the bank balance. We are lucky that he and his partners do, otherwise we are the next Portsmouth.

I just wish there was more transparency with the reality of where we are. We all possibly would look forward to promotion and the enjoyment that would bring, but would you endure a season like last year for that? Highs and lows are part of life and football but i for one like a balance. Win a few, draw a few and lose a few. Realistically we can, and have survived in the championship. But look at what has happened to the quality players we had during that spell, Wellens, Green, Stock, Sharp, Oconnor, Hird, Roberts, - all gone because we could or would not afford them. We were, at best, an average championship side for those seasons. We did not, and never will have the funds to make the push for anything more.
We will never do a swansea because ultimately the money to do what they did is not there, because it does not make business sense for JR to take that financial risk.
 We are a "selling club" to coin the phrase.
Dont get me wrong, i dream, like everyone else, but JR's dreams are influenced by the end of month balance which none of us are exposed to directly. If he gets it wrong he is out of pocket, not you or i.

My dad, who is a reasonable outspoken judge of Character, and has been following Rovers yearly for over 50 years, calls JR a "Conman". He tells the rovers fans publicly what he thinks they want to hear. I know that may be controversial but thats his opinion, and because hes my dad, i believe theres an element of truth in that comment.

JR would want promotion - providing he does not have to spend a penny to get it.

My dads prediction, and hes seen it all before, is without immediate spending on the quality we need in midfield, goal and defence to cover the gaps, we wont even make the playoffs. I hope hes wrong.

[Chris Black come back]

Hardest job in the world running a football club. Matching supporter ambition with financial reality. Made 100x worse if you are a die hard, genuine, lifelong fan like JR.

You were not necessarily making this point, I know, but his ability to keep the club going through yes, money in the past, but just sheer force of character has brought us the success we have had. It can't be easy with thousands of people looking at you to deliver success every season.

The guy has put his heart, soul and wallet into the club for 15 years. For me the greatest figure in the history of Doncaster Rovers. Can do no wrong in my eyes. Has been badly, badly let down by the people of Doncaster. Ungrateful, fickle and shallow. A large portion of our support are the worst fans in the country. Blind to reality and blind to what JR has delivered with literally bugger all.

Viva Ryan!

[StocktonRover]

Hardest job in the world running a football club. Matching supporter ambition with financial reality. Made 100x worse if you are a die hard, genuine, lifelong fan like JR.

You were not necessarily making this point, I know, but his ability to keep the club going through yes, money in the past, but just sheer force of character has brought us the success we have had. It can't be easy with thousands of people looking at you to deliver success every season.

The guy has put his heart, soul and wallet into the club for 15 years. For me the greatest figure in the history of Doncaster Rovers. Can do no wrong in my eyes. Has been badly, badly let down by the people of Doncaster. Ungrateful, fickle and shallow. A large portion of our support are the worst fans in the country. Blind to reality and blind to what JR has delivered with literally bugger all.

Viva Ryan!

seconded........

[DonnyBazR0ver]

You can't pick and chose when you go up.

You have to take the opportunity when it arises if you can. We can see both sides of the coin. How much better we are when a couple of players return and, how bad we are when we lose them.

If this squad earns promotion then it's not a case of we're not ready. We have to get ready. With a couple of smart acquisitions we can get up and running however all we wish for is that we can be 'competitive'.

Define competitive? May be different views. Playing well and getting beat by the odd goal with the potential to improve? I'll take that one, we've been there, done that. OR being cannon fodder and getting pasted every week. I don't think anyone wants that. So, we will need help from short term loans, longer term loans, a mixture of young and experienced etc. That's just the reality of clubs the size of ours have to operate.

Finance. I don't think anyone wants the club to pay beyond it's means. There are clubs in the Championship with near identical budgets who are competing, as we have done ourselves. There's no reason why we can't again.

Either way, one thing that must be learned from recent experience is you have to keep the fans with you and if we are to 'compete', then we need more bums on seats and cash coming in in greater volumes. Not sure that we have got that quite right yet but, as we know people are working on this and we have a very astute CEO on board who appears determined to raise the bar on many levels. 

[donnyallday]

Fantastic post.   

[normal rules]

who are the clubs in the championship with near identical budgets. Posh are the only ones that spring to mind. Polite question?

[River Don]

SM, i will never, ever, question John Ryan's committment to DRFC as a football supporter himself.

However, let us not forget. He is a businessman, with an astute business acumen, which is why he is where he is now. He made his money through cosmetic surgery not by wearing his heart on his sleeve but by good business sense. He knows that Doncaster Rovers will not make him money. We punch above our weight and he balances his passion for football and Doncaster Rovers with the bank balance. We are lucky that he and his partners do, otherwise we are the next Portsmouth.

I just wish there was more transparency with the reality of where we are. We all possibly would look forward to promotion and the enjoyment that would bring, but would you endure a season like last year for that? Highs and lows are part of life and football but i for one like a balance. Win a few, draw a few and lose a few. Realistically we can, and have survived in the championship. But look at what has happened to the quality players we had during that spell, Wellens, Green, Stock, Sharp, Oconnor, Hird, Roberts, - all gone because we could or would not afford them. We were, at best, an average championship side for those seasons. We did not, and never will have the funds to make the push for anything more.
We will never do a swansea because ultimately the money to do what they did is not there, because it does not make business sense for JR to take that financial risk.
 We are a "selling club" to coin the phrase.
Dont get me wrong, i dream, like everyone else, but JR's dreams are influenced by the end of month balance which none of us are exposed to directly. If he gets it wrong he is out of pocket, not you or i.

My dad, who is a reasonable outspoken judge of Character, and has been following Rovers yearly for over 50 years, calls JR a "Conman". He tells the rovers fans publicly what he thinks they want to hear. I know that may be controversial but thats his opinion, and because hes my dad, i believe theres an element of truth in that comment.

JR would want promotion - providing he does not have to spend a penny to get it.

My dads prediction, and hes seen it all before, is without immediate spending on the quality we need in midfield, goal and defence to cover the gaps, we wont even make the playoffs. I hope hes wrong.

With all due respect to your dad, show me a more transparent football club than Rovers.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

To the best of my knowledge Barnsley and Posh with possibly one or two others very close however S_M might have a better idea.

But taking those 2 clubs in to account. Very similar to ourselves. Particularly Barnsley who have gone through a mid term crisis like we did. Manager has to be changed etc. Earlier on the in season they were no-hopers but now they have a chance.

Peterborough have taken some notable scalps and at time produce some great football, certainly enough to keep the fans positive, yet for all that it may not be enough. Similar to us they went down and came back up.

What's wrong with being a yo-yo club between League One and the Championship? Ask the same question 10 or more years ago !

[silent majority]

normal rules,

I like your reasoned response. However I have to question some of the assumptions you, and possibly your Dad, have made about our current position. You talk about transparency and balancing the budget at the end of each month but I have to reiterate the points I have been making all season.

Firstly, if JR and the rest of the board didn't want promotion then why would they commit to the 3rd highest budget in this division? Why spend more than 21 other clubs in this division if you want to finish mid table, or in the play off's?

Secondly, Gavin has already gone on record and said that if he had been in charge last season we wouldn't be in this position today and that we would have survived in the Championship.

The struggle to cut back on expenditure at the start of this season was due to the very fact that our income drastically reduced and that the league above is worth a minimum of £6m. That £6m goes a long way!

Its more difficult to reallocate resources to survive in lg1 than it is to do the same in the Championship. Your comment 'JR would want promotion - providing he does not have to spend a penny to get it' is so wide of the mark. I've obviously not been doing a good job at getting the message across this season that they do want promotion, they have spent the money and that they are still prepared to spend more if needed.

Just because the players haven't come in who you would expect to see doesn't reflect badly on the owners, its more a reflection of the team management.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Even if S_M, the VSC and the club COULD be more transparent, there will still be the conspiracy theorists who believe what they believe and unfortunately, it sound like your father won't be changing his views very soon.   

[Chris Black come back]

Even if S_M, the VSC and the club COULD be more transparent, there will still be the conspiracy theorists who believe what they believe and unfortunately, it sound like your father won't be changing his views very soon.   

A different point but largely same issue, I forgot to mention all the conspiracy theorists and self-appointed commentators who still treat JR as the antichrist because he dared to try something different last season in order to hammer a square peg into a round hole. It did not work. We were largely crap. I welcome JR being an imaginative club (part) owner though.

[dickos1]

I haven't read through all the posts but why do people talk about next season?? And why do people say we can't afford promotion??
We will get 6/7 million extra funds, we also have all summer to build a squad good enough to survive. What we have now is irrelevant, last summer this forum was full of know it alls saying we didn't have a defence and we were going down again, but just remind me where we are in the table

[streatham dave]

you can't pick and choose when you go up so lets hope we go up this season. The squad will need a rebuild and I'd be happy enough a couple of places outside relegation next season in Championship. I think that is realistic and achievable.