Promotion Question

[Chris Black come back]

All things being equal, money largely brings success. Even without helpful owners, we should be outspending most other teams in this league. Even our abysmal attendances this season have put us in 7th place with average gate of 6794. All the teams above us in terms of attendance are also in the promotion mix, aside from Pompey (gruesome freak show) and PNE (Westley legacy).

Next season we will yes have an extra 6m quid if we go up. However, everyone else will also benefit from that kind of income (TV money, away gates larger etc) PLUS their attendances will be way, way, way higher than ours (which has relatively advantaged us this season in League One) plus lots have parachute money or foreign investment gambling to get the club into the Premier League.

If we go up, unless we turn up a run of luck with a good manager, good loan signings and a good strategy like we had with SOD for a few seasons, then we are going to get dicked on week in and week out. Nowt we can do about that reality really.

[normal rules]

whilst i recognise the direct correlation between cash availability and quality players/wages i cannot ignore that this season our expectation was not as high as the league table currently reflects.

however, with the advent that jones, who in defence HAS made a huge difference this season could now be out, as well as keegan and syers,we could fill the ground every week from now till season end and it would not change our final league position. i refer to the cash flow this would generate and note the twelth man syndome that some would advocate.

in short. all the money in the world would not make a jot of diffrence unless it is translated into quality on the field.

starting with a quality keeper.

[roversam]

You would think we already have a quality keeper according to a few on this forum.

[normal rules]

a pleasure to discuss this on this forum with some on this thread. i shall travel the usual 80 miles to get to the carlisle home match next week and dream of what might be once again for 90 mins.
roversam - i hope to meet up with u someday, so we can continue this chat.

there are others on this forum though i despair with.

[donnyallday]

grooming 

[roversam]

No chance lol

[Belle-Vue-Ghost]

One thing is for sure, if we do go up this season, we (the fans) need to have the right mentallity next season.

We would probably have the smallest budget in the league, so lets just enjoy the ride if we make it.  Rather than having the mentality that we have the devine right to be in that league.

[Not Now Kato]

You would think we already have a quality keeper according to a few on this forum.

Based on our current league position, he certainly isn't the worst. 

[Donnybax]

People saying our players arent good enough need to remember some players WILL make the step up. People were saying JOC wasnt good enough Roberts wasnt Stock may not be after being let go by Preston even Wellens some said after the L1 play off final. Heffernan wasnt good enough apparantly he then scored the goals to keep us up.

[Bristol Red Rover]

We're currently at best a tier 2/3 yoyo side, if we can be more 2 than 3 thats a massive improvement. Please no destination Prem next time!

[RedJ]

We're currently at best a tier 2/3 yoyo side, if we can be more 2 than 3 thats a massive improvement. Please no destination Prem next time!

Unless of course we end up in a position to make that a reality. And an actual reality, not a "we nearly got to the top 10 so we'll use it to sell season tickets and promise them free if we go up".

[DMnumber4]

Can we cross the bridge in question when we get to it please?

Get promoted and then hypothesise!

If we start saying we'll build a side which will be ready for the championship in a few years we'll end up like Ipswich - I know, a strange analogy, but they got relegated from the Premier League in 2002 and have had a couple of stabs at the play-offs but little else and will float around mid-table seemingly forever.

I'm happy to be a Peterborough-like yo-yo club (West Brom were from Prem - Champ and have eventually stuck) but everyone needs to buy in to it and there has to be an emphasis on developing youth and unearthing gems, formerly Boyd, McLean and Mackail-Smith, currently Gayle.

[Sammy Chung was King]

I Don't disagree that if we were promoted,it will be hard,but this is one of the poorest league one's i've seen in years,whoever goes up has a lot of work to do,and it will be harder for us rather than say a Sheff utd if we go up,because they get big crowds and more coming in money wise,but it doesn't mean it's not possible,Sean put a very capable side together on a very small budget,and with the right decisions here and their could have led to promotion to the Premier league.

The main thing,or one of them is having the right man in charge of the side,if you are a small club on a limited budget,the worst thing you can do is constantly bleat about financial limitations,you've got to be constantly positive,and have a bit of experience in managing that kind of situation,is Brian Flynn the one who could do this?,i don't know it's unfair to judge at the moment,he needs to be judged at the end of the season,for me upto now,he has done an average job,he's made some mistakes,he's also made some good decisions.

We can't compete financially,but that doesn't mean we can't compete on the field,there will be a lot of players available on free transfers in the summer,who for whatever reason it hasn't worked out at their previous club,we got Cotterill on a free,where would we be without his contribution this season?,you've only got to get three or four like him to add to a hard working team,and you can be a match for a lot of teams in the Championship,develpo them,get a profit,so much back into the coffers,so much back into the team,that's the only way a side like us can survive at that level,but to survive at Championship level you have to have a confident,bubbly,shrewd manager,we might already have him,here's hoping.

[RobTheRover]

Here's the crux in 2 lines.

To go up you need to beat 21 other teams
To stay up you need to beat 3

The rewards are there, and we will have the valuable lessons learnt during our last spell in the Championship.

[Mr1Croft]

At the beginning of the season I asked a poll seeing where we would finish and more people answered bottom 6 than top 6 with mid-table being the most popular.

So what the hell do we know?

[Wild Rover]

When the breakdown of league monies is as follows :-

Every other club receives a solidarity payment from the PL of £2.17m in the Championship, £324,000 in League One and £214,000 in League Two

The Football League's TV and commercial income is shared on 66:20:14 basis between the three divisions


Can DRFC NOT AFFORD to go for promotion.

[Mr1Croft]

Exactly, and remember that the PL clubs have agreed to a even bigger deal from sky "£2.2 Billion over 3 seasons" so from next season there is even more money!

[dickos1]

At the beginning of the season I asked a poll seeing where we would finish and more people answered bottom 6 than top 6 with mid-table being the most popular.

So what the hell do we know?

It means we are a miserable set of bas**rds

[andyst79]

If we gain promotion were faced with the problem that were a small fish in a big pond & we can only sign players none of the other teams want. Although there maybe the odd rough diamonds out there the rest are usually a bunch of wAshed up , injury prone misfits left on the football scrap heap . Think we need to be looking at young , hungry , lower league talent . It's hard to find but it's out there, we were offered Charlie Adam for next to nowt & I remember us heavily linked with Lefondre but O'driscoll considered it too much of a gamble . Hopefully Flynn will have something up his sleeve

[RedJ]

If we gain promotion were faced with the problem that were a small fish in a big pond & we can only sign players none of the other teams want. Although there maybe the odd rough diamonds out there the rest are usually a bunch of wAshed up , injury prone misfits left on the football scrap heap . Think we need to be looking at young , hungry , lower league talent . It's hard to find but it's out there, we were offered Charlie Adam for next to nowt & I remember us heavily linked with Lefondre but O'driscoll considered it too much of a gamble . Hopefully Flynn will have something up his sleeve

We were going to replace Sharp with ALF if he'd left for Saints in the summer, I heard.

Means the square root of f**k all now like  but yeah, I think we need to be going for the next George Boyd and the like.

[graingrover]

It has to be this season surely. There is no guarantee we could get back into this lofty position next year if we stayed down . We would then lose layers and certainly another year in League One would do nothing for our finances . I think the 'fear' of the Championship is largely based on the lack of investment in essential areas when we were last promted . I am sure JR and the Board have learned a great deal from that experience and the club as a better Management team and financial basis now too. Have no fear of Promotion .. let's secure it in the next 9 games . 

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Given our fans experience of 4 seasons in the Championship, what would you like to see done differently/better?

I'll kick off

1. Do not increase ticket prices (still 10% too high IMO)
2. Approach to the football. Do not fear relegation, go out to enjoy each game it and let's see who we can upset.
3. Continue to push the young players through
4. Rather see hungry players on their way up rather than journeymen on their way down (not discounting there some good experienced players out there that will not cost us a fortune)
5. In line with the IRWT campaign, extend the involvement of fans to more things.
6. Dig up the pitch or give Andy Thompson the resources he needs to maintain the that pitch properly throughout the season.

[Akinfenwa]

1. Do not be afraid to spend £100k-£300k every now and again to pick up (thoroughly scouted) young lower league talent with a potentially high resale value. If the wage bill is reduced then so be it. It's the only way I can see us surviving for more than a couple of seasons in the Championship. Even though they're a bit crap, Peterborough have probably made in the Championship, double or triple what we made in transfer fees. We on the other hand paid out good money to 27+ year olds with next to no resale value, which didn't keep us going for long at that level.

2. Don't be afraid to accept bids for a player when it makes commercial sense to do so, even if people accuse us of being a 'selling club', whatever that means. Eg. Stock and M. Woods could have made us a lot of money if we'd sold them at the right time. By the end of this season they will both have left us for nothing.

3. Don't let wages get out of control even if it means freshening the squad up more often, so when we get relegated next time we don't have to have another summer like the last one.

4. Be realistic. Don't wishfully think we can 'do a Blackpool' and get to the Premiership if we're like 11th at Christmas. Try to build the club up wisely like Swansea did. Also, accept that relegation is always a likely possibility unless we properly establish ourselves.

[Hag]

Above 2 posts are spot on, go up with no worries and no high expectations.

We are Donny.

[Sammy Chung was King]

Lower the price to £15 for adults-£10 OAP-Kids under sixteen always free,i know what some will say we can't afford to that,but in my opinion we can't afford not to,with the increased money if we got promoted,why not pass some of the benefit onto your supporters,a reduction like this,if we were doing reasonably well,could add one and a half to two thousand onto the gate,you would make some back on increased food sales,if people don't feel like they are being ripped off,they are more likely to spend a few quid on food,programmes or in the club shop.

If we go up we have to accept we are a selling club,but we've got to make sure as a club,that we get a very good fair price for our players,instead of underselling players like we've done in the past,this also includes getting saleable assets on decent length contracts,that include a relegation reduction,and go more towards incentive targeted wages,rather than a flat massive wage,we need as a club to keep improving our professional way of doing things,but not forget the supporters and keep them involved like this season,i'd like us to get our business done as soon as possible in the summer if we got promoted,though this isn't always possible if we are not paying big wages,we need to look in the lower leagues,and take a gamble here and their,and if we did go up,don't dismantle the whole side and forget what got us there.

Don't try and run before we can walk,buy sensibly,and also try to bring our own players through,extend the items you can buy in the club shop,why not start a club catalogue,where things can be bought on credit,with a small interest added?

The Most CRUCIAL thing is have the Right manager,one who won't moan about his budget,who will do his best with what he's got.

Most of all don't forget who we are,and what the club means to everybody,do it and do it in the right way!!

COOOMMMMEEE OONNN YOOUUU RRREEEEDDDSSSS!!

[Belle-Vue-Ghost]

The last few posts on here have been fantastic. I agree with them all. At the end of the day if we make it to the championship we need to ENJOY it, whatever position we're in. As long as we're doing what is right for the club and the fans I'll be happy 

[bobjimwilly]

Unfortunately the ticket price decrease mentioned above will not happen. Championship players expect more money, and so will the current players who are coming to the ends of their contracts. We will not see a massive increase in crowds, so the shortfall has to be, at least in part, covered by the fans 

[DonnyBazR0ver]

We will not see a massive increase in crowds,

Define massive Rob?

Surely, the club should have a plan, an objective, an aspiration even, to grow the fanbase again?

We are not necessarily talking about new fans, we are talking about those folk that are out there and for a whole host of reasons have not turned up as regularly, if at all.

We're talking about the missing 3000 plus since 2009. Do we just concede they have gone forever?

Someone needs to do some serious maths and work out how much the turnover would increase with more fans being 'encouraged' to turn up more regularly.

I thought you were firmly behind the objectives of the fan engagement process!?

[RedJ]

I read it as not to expect exactly filling the ground week in week out to be honest DBR.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I read it as not to expect exactly filling the ground week in week out to be honest DBR.

If I have read something different in to Rob's post then I'm sorry. I don't think anyone can expect we'll fill the ground any time soon however, we must be planning to increase turnover in order to reduce the shortfall.

Just relying on the extra numbers that promotion brings (If we secure it) is not good enough really.