UKIP conference at the racecourse

[IC1967]

Jonrover I don't know what you are on about as I'm sure don't other readers of this forum. So I'll say it again. UKIP exist to get us out of Europe. Their other policies won't get implemented. They come up with other policies because they are expected to by the media. The other 'policies' they come up with aren't worth too much scrutiny as they are just produced to play the politics game.

It just so happens that I agree with a lot of what they have come up with. Hopefully Labour or the Tories will nick some of their ideas and they may see the light of day.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

Accepted. I am having it both ways. But whichever way you look at it, Labour were in a pickle after 2010.

After 13 years in power, Labour in 2010 received the second lowest popular vote of either of the two major parties in 100 years. They did very nearly as badly as under Foot in 1983 (longest suicide note in history and all that).

Only one party since WWII has won a subsequent election after gaining fewer seats than Labour did in 2010. That was Labour in 1992-97. And THAT was the result of a confluence of two streams - the most incompetent Govt in recent history, and the biggest lurch rightwards that Labour has ever contemplated, to take votes off the Tories (and look where THAT took us!)

Miliband has managed to maintain a poll lead without having either of those two advantages.

This Govt has been chronically, rather than acutely shite. It has been drip-drip problems rather than the big ker-pow of 1992-97  - Black Weds, Archer, Hamilton, Aitken, Yeo, Milligan etc, etc -  that meant that Labour would have won in 1997 with Postman Pat as the PM.

And Miliband has stood on traditional Labour ground, and not sold its soul in the way that Blair did. That means he's deliberately giving up on the idea of winning over soft Tory votes.

Miliband has played a high-risk strategy to perfection. It pisses off the Blairites in the Labour party, because they have made a career on the premise that Labour has to compromise on the Tories' principles. Miliband may yet win in 2015 without compromising anything. Then we'll see a genuinely left-of-centre Govt for the first time in 40 years.

Coming after 2010, that would be astonishing.

[jonrover]

Jonrover I don't know what you are on about as I'm sure don't other readers of this forum. So I'll say it again. UKIP exist to get us out of Europe. Their other policies won't get implemented. They come up with other policies because they are expected to by the media. The other 'policies' they come up with aren't worth too much scrutiny as they are just produced to play the politics game.

It just so happens that I agree with a lot of what they have come up with. Hopefully Labour or the Tories will nick some of their ideas and they may see the light of day.

Hmmm, lets see, first you say UKIP are a one issue party, next you say you agree with most of their policies. And now their a one issue party but have to have other policies because the media expect them to. You will make your mouth say owt!

Which one is it you thick turd? Filled your moist flannel yet?

Oh & PS. Isn't it funny all these Tory defectors crawling into the sewer to join Farage. Massive own goal with regard to winning Labour votes...vote UKIP, get a TORY! And what must the UKIP party faithful think. I'd be livid dragging in all these outsiders in.

Farage is allowing Labour to sail home in 2015 with his daft antics. GET IN!!

[IC1967]

Jonrover I don't know what you are on about as I'm sure don't other readers of this forum. So I'll say it again. UKIP exist to get us out of Europe. Their other policies won't get implemented. They come up with other policies because they are expected to by the media. The other 'policies' they come up with aren't worth too much scrutiny as they are just produced to play the politics game.

It just so happens that I agree with a lot of what they have come up with. Hopefully Labour or the Tories will nick some of their ideas and they may see the light of day.

Hmmm, lets see, first you say UKIP are a one issue party, next you say you agree with most of their policies. And now their a one issue party but have to have other policies because the media expect them to. You will make your mouth say owt!

Which one is it you thick turd? Filled your moist flannel yet?

Oh & PS. Isn't it funny all these Tory defectors crawling into the sewer to join Farage. Massive own goal with regard to winning Labour votes...vote UKIP, get a TORY! And what must the UKIP party faithful think. I'd be livid dragging in all these outsiders in.

Farage is allowing Labour to sail home in 2015 with his daft antics. GET IN!!

Haha. You do make me laugh. I'll try once more. The reason UKIP exist is to get us out of Europe. That is it. Plain and simple. They are a one issue party. To achieve this goal they have to play the political game. This means coming up with policies that will never be implemented. It just so happens that the policies they come up with are by and large excellent.

Now what the stupid people out there need to understand is that by voting for UKIP you are not running the risk of any of these policies being implemented so they can all be discounted immediately. Have you got it yet? Duh.

[BillyStubbsTears]

485 pages of policies at the last election. Just to pay lip service.

See, the problem is Mick, you have been wrong on every prediction that you've ever made on here, from the result of the Scottish referendum to the winner of the National. So, with respect, I'll treat your opinion on UKIP's intentions with same as I would a piece of dogshite - avoid interacting with it, turn my nose up at it and stick it in the bin.


Ok. Tell you what. I would have a huge amount of respect for UKIP if they said:
"We are a single issue party. We want NOTHING other than to get the UK out of Europe so that we can control our own borders. If you elect us, we will abstain on every other issue and we will disband after securing a referendum."

In the absence of that sort of statement, I'll trust my instinct that they are run by a bunch of far-right nut jobs who see their role as akin to the Tea Party in the States - to pull the centre of gravity of politics way over to the right.

[Yargo]

to pull the centre of gravity of politics way over to the right.

Britain has been moving rightwards since the early eighties and speeded up after the miners defeat

[IC1967]

485 pages of policies at the last election. Just to pay lip service.

See, the problem is Mick, you have been wrong on every prediction that you've ever made on here, from the result of the Scottish referendum to the winner of the National. So, with respect, I'll treat your opinion on UKIP's intentions with same as I would a piece of dogshite - avoid interacting with it, turn my nose up at it and stick it in the bin.


Ok. Tell you what. I would have a huge amount of respect for UKIP if they said:
"We are a single issue party. We want NOTHING other than to get the UK out of Europe so that we can control our own borders. If you elect us, we will abstain on every other issue and we will disband after securing a referendum."

In the absence of that sort of statement, I'll trust my instinct that they are run by a bunch of far-right nut jobs who see their role as akin to the Tea Party in the States - to pull the centre of gravity of politics way over to the right.

You are either just scaremongering or you are genuinely worried about the rise of UKIP or a bit of both. What is it that you don't understand when Nige says he will quit politics when we are out of the EU? That tells you all you need to know. UKIP was formed to get us out of the EU. Nige has said he will quit once this objective has been achieved. He has no desire to be PM.

It doesn't matter a jot if their so called 'policies' are right wing. It doesn't matter if they are left wing or somewhere in the middle. Nige has said that he would sup with the devil and do any kind of deal he had to if it meant he got a referendum. I take this to mean he would even do a deal with red Ed. He would even support any policies red Ed wanted to implement if it meant he got  a referendum as part of the deal.

So there you have it. UKIP want out of the EU (which is much more than just controlling our own borders). Once this has been achieved then it is up to the electorate and politicians of various parties as to how they want to reform the political landscape.

Have you got it now? Or are you just as stupid as everyone else that takes their manifesto seriously? From reading all your drivel on the subject I'm inclined to lump you in with the stupid who should not be allowed within a mile of a ballot box.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yargo

It's not just Britain. The whole of world politics and economics has done so.

Politics and economics goes in big, long cycles. It'll not stay like this forever. In this case, the neo-liberal "victory" in economics in the 1980s has led us to a situation where wealth is being consolidated into a small number of hands, and where we have a relatively wealthy older section of the population, with all the shit being thrown at the young.

And not just here. It's happening across the West. We hear politicians telling us that we must cut back the debt because we don't want to leave that to our young. So what we do is bring in Austerity policies that pile unemployment on the young instead. And look at Osborne's star policy on pensions today - a tax giveaway to very wealthy 75 year olds, at a time that Cameron is sticking the boot into the young who can't find work.

It'll change. It'll be a generational change when it does. The people who have won from the neo-liberal revolution are dying out. Literally.

That's why we're in a last hurrah of those policies and politics now. The Tories and UKIP get a disproportionate amount of their support from  the over 60s. Take last Friday's YouGov poll.

Age Group - Lab - Con - UKIP
18-24--------41-----25------5
25-29--------40-----29------8
40-59--------36-----30-----16
60+ ----------30-----37-----17


That demogrpahic issue is why the Tories have struggled to get over 40% in opinion polls for the past 20 years. Their support base is dying off. And it's why UKIP conferences are full of tweed jacketed old dodderers moaning about things not being like they used to be.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Go on Mick. Give us a link.

[IC1967]

Jonrover I don't know what you are on about as I'm sure don't other readers of this forum. So I'll say it again. UKIP exist to get us out of Europe. Their other policies won't get implemented. They come up with other policies because they are expected to by the media. The other 'policies' they come up with aren't worth too much scrutiny as they are just produced to play the politics game.

It just so happens that I agree with a lot of what they have come up with. Hopefully Labour or the Tories will nick some of their ideas and they may see the light of day.

Hmmm, lets see, first you say UKIP are a one issue party, next you say you agree with most of their policies. And now their a one issue party but have to have other policies because the media expect them to. You will make your mouth say owt!

Which one is it you thick turd? Filled your moist flannel yet?

Oh & PS. Isn't it funny all these Tory defectors crawling into the sewer to join Farage. Massive own goal with regard to winning Labour votes...vote UKIP, get a TORY! And what must the UKIP party faithful think. I'd be livid dragging in all these outsiders in.

Farage is allowing Labour to sail home in 2015 with his daft antics. GET IN!!

Did you see the reaction of the UKIP faithful when Mr Reckless walked on the stage at their conference? Obviously not. The crowd went wild. Jucyberry saw it and disapproved of the crowd's reaction. It was like a football crowd after a goal has been scored. It went on for 5 minutes. Now given the evidence, I'd be grateful if you could explain your comment 'And what must the UKIP party faithful think. I'd be livid dragging in all these outsiders in'.

You really do make yourself look daft. Don't bother replying because you won't be able to justify your outlandish, unsubstantiated, ridiculous comment.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

But equally it's commonly thought of that people become 'more Tory' as they grow older.  There's a lot of theory in that which makes sense and some that doesn't quite hold true.  What won't happen is the Labour vote goes up as the older generations die, it's not quite that simple is it?

[IC1967]

Go on Mick. Give us a link.

Are you that stupid you can't even work out how to use Google?

[IC1967]

The reason Labour has more support amongst the young is because they haven't had the terrible experience of living under as many Labour governments as older people have. It's that simple.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh I've found one Mick. It's the one where Farage says his ambition is to
1) destroy the Tory party,
2)establish a new radical right wing party,
3)get Britain out of the EU
4)and THEN quit politics.

I assumed you, being such a straightforward and honest person, would have one where he said that he didn't plan to do steps 1 and 2.

Or are you still assuming that we're all as thick as pigshit like you?

[Filo]

Go on Mick. Give us a link.

Are you that stupid you can't even work out how to use Google?

You've been told before, when you copy and paste to provide the link to other peoples work that you've stolen to pass them off as your own

[IC1967]

I assume you're talking to Billy. If it's me I'd be grateful if you could show where you think I've copied and pasted on this thread as I can assure you that I haven't.

[IC1967]

Oh I've found one Mick. It's the one where Farage says his ambition is to
1) destroy the Tory party,
2)establish a new radical right wing party,
3)get Britain out of the EU
4)and THEN quit politics.

I assumed you, being such a straightforward and honest person, would have one where he said that he didn't plan to do steps 1 and 2.

Or are you still assuming that we're all as thick as pigshit like you?

You are unbelievably thick. UKIP's main reason for existence is to get Britain out of the EU as I've said all along. This won't just happen without a strategy. At the moment the strategy Nige is adopting is damaging the Tory party (I think you'll find he has already established a new radical right wing party, it's called UKIP). This is only the current strategy and is proving to be successful.

If the Tories immediately offered an In Out referendum, I think you'd find that this strategy would change. All UKIP is bothered about is getting us out of the EU. They will do whatever it takes. If that means even dealing with red Ed then this would happen. Have you got it yet?

Just to get Filo off your back I'll post the link you should have in your last post.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html

[BillyStubbsTears]

From the very link you posted.

"Rampant Nigel Farage aims to destroy the Tory Party, take over a new Right-wing British political party, get Britain out of the EU - and then quit politics."

I swore not to get dragged down into your morass again Mick, but there's something about your deliberate lying that really, really gets my f***ing goat. You are an utterly obnoxious man who treats the truth as a passing inconvenience. You lie so often, I'm not even sure you realise that you are doing it any more. It's second nature to you.

No wonder you support a party run by an unashamed liar. You're two peas from the same rotten pod.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Another swivel-eyed Tory far-righter is reported to be joining UKIP imminently by the way.

Great int it? Every one of the defections shows UKIP for exactly what it is - a party of the right. Far, far to the right of the Tories. Any Labour supporter thinking if dabbling with them, think on. You'd be voting for a party far to the right of Tebbit and Thatcher.

[IC1967]

From the very link you posted.

"Rampant Nigel Farage aims to destroy the Tory Party, take over a new Right-wing British political party, get Britain out of the EU - and then quit politics."

I swore not to get dragged down into your morass again Mick, but there's something about your deliberate lying that really, really gets my f***ing goat. You are an utterly obnoxious man who treats the truth as a passing inconvenience. You lie so often, I'm not even sure you realise that you are doing it any more. It's second nature to you.

No wonder you support a party run by an unashamed liar. You're two peas from the same rotten pod.

Where have I lied? Let me go through your points one by one even though I've already done this as it seems you need things explaining many times before it eventually sinks in.

Rampant Nigel Farage aims to destroy the Tory party. Your point is? Its obvious he's damaging them. Nothing earth shattering there.
take over a new Right-wing British political party Where have you been? He's already done this. The party is called UKIP.
get Britain out of the EU Thats what I keep saying. What don't you understand?
and then quit politics Your point is? This is what I said. What planet are you on?

Now as for calling me a liar, you are entitled to your view. It is my contention that you are the worst of liars. You are so economical with the truth and tell such bare faced lies it is unbelievable. You rely on people's ignorance and peddle so much bullshit that eventually some of it gets through to those of a lesser intelligence than myself. You should be ashamed of yourself.

If you want me to prove where you've lied in the past I am up for the challenge. You only have to ask.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Mick.

"take over a new Right-wing British political party Where have you been? He's already done this. The party is called UKIP."

Read the article that YOU posted you utter imbecile. Farage clearly and unambigiously discusses the example of Canada, where a populist right wing party first hobbled the ruling Conservative party at a General Election, then merged with it to form a new party well to the right of the previous Conservative party. Farage is discussing this as an example and and aim for UKIP.

You posted the f***ing article. Read it you clown. And stop insulting everyone else's intelligence with your combination of bone-headed stupidity and lies.

It's not about your opinions. Your opinions are worthless - they are a combination of lies, half-truths and fantasies. Time after time after time.

I find it incomprehensible that you can go through this so many times - you utterly, utterly ignore facts that are there in front of your eyes. Even in links that you yourself post. You see something that disagrees with what you want to say so you simply ignore it and pretend it isn't there. Read the f***ing article. Farage says that what happened in Canada can happen here. That is what his aim is you numbskull. It's there in his own f***ing words, so why give us your opinion on it?

[IC1967]

There you go again being economical with the truth. There are 2 ways to take the article. One is to believe the headline and peddle this misinformation as fact. This is what you have done.  The other approach is to take the headline with a pinch of salt (it is the Mail after all) and read the article to see if Nige actually said what the headline claims. He didn't. 

Nowhere in the article does he claim he wants to lead a new right wing party. He already does this. Again you are peddling sensationalist journalism as fact.

Given your low opinion of the Mail this beggars belief. The reason for you believing the Mail is because it fits your anti UKIP agenda. Why let a good story get in the way of the facts eh?

Now issue an abject apology and I promise I won't dig up more examples of your deceit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Jesus f**king Christ Mick. Where is the entrance door that allows facts into your brain!

We are talking about what Farage himself is actually quoted as saying.

In an interview with this newspaper earlier in the campaign, Mr Farage said a Canadian-style Tory meltdown ‘could happen’ here – and compared attacks on him to those on Reform Party leader Preston Manning and Reform’s first Canadian MP, schoolteacher Deborah Grey.

‘They called him a Right-wing extremist, a nutter, away with the fairies, he’ll never get anywhere and what happens? They won one by-election, a schoolmistress way out West, who resisted every bribe and temptation to rejoin the Conservative Party.

‘Now you have a Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, who was first elected on a Reform ticket, as were half the Cabinet.

‘Don’t think this can’t happen here. The public want something different. We are catalysing a big change in British politics on fundamental issues (note Mick: Farage's own words: plural, not singular you cretin) that have been brushed under the carpet and ignored by a completely out-of-touch career political class for too long.’

Now, I don't give a shot about what Farage's personal ambitions are. I don't care if HE will stand up, stand down, or stand on his head with his cock in a pumpkin. I raised the issue about what the aim of the entire party is. And this is clear. The leader of UKIP is raising the exame if what happened in Canada and saying that it can happen here.

Clear enough dipshit?

Now, I do not give a f**k what you want to post about times when I have supposedly lied on here. We've been through this before and you were unable to differentiate between mistakes, and typos, rapidly corrected, and your modus operandi of simply lying. Repeatedly. So post what the f**k you want if it amuses you. Once again you will not be able to find anything I have ever written that comes remotely close to your continual spouting if lies and stupidity.

[IC1967]

Oh I've found one Mick. It's the one where Farage says his ambition is to
1) destroy the Tory party,
2)establish a new radical right wing party,
3)get Britain out of the EU
4)and THEN quit politics.

I assumed you, being such a straightforward and honest person, would have one where he said that he didn't plan to do steps 1 and 2.

Or are you still assuming that we're all as thick as pigshit like you?

Let's go back to this post as a clear example of you being economical with the truth and peddling misinformation. Nowhere can you show where Nige said he wanted to destroy the Tory party or establish a new right wing party that he wanted to lead.

You are peddling journalistic licence as fact. You should know that journalists tend to exaggerate and make things up to sell newspapers. I think you'd make a very good journalist.

[IC1967]

Jesus f***ing Christ Mick. Where is the entrance door that allows facts into your brain!

We are talking about what Farage himself is actually quoted as saying.

In an interview with this newspaper earlier in the campaign, Mr Farage said a Canadian-style Tory meltdown ‘could happen’ here – and compared attacks on him to those on Reform Party leader Preston Manning and Reform’s first Canadian MP, schoolteacher Deborah Grey.

‘They called him a Right-wing extremist, a nutter, away with the fairies, he’ll never get anywhere and what happens? They won one by-election, a schoolmistress way out West, who resisted every bribe and temptation to rejoin the Conservative Party.

‘Now you have a Canadian Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, who was first elected on a Reform ticket, as were half the Cabinet.

‘Don’t think this can’t happen here. The public want something different. We are catalysing a big change in British politics on fundamental issues (note Mick: Farage's own words: plural, not singular you cretin) that have been brushed under the carpet and ignored by a completely out-of-touch career political class for too long.’

Now, I don't give a shot about what Farage's personal ambitions are. I don't care if HE will stand up, stand down, or stand on his head with his cock in a pumpkin. I raised the issue about what the aim of the entire party is. And this is clear. The leader of UKIP is raising the exame if what happened in Canada and saying that it can happen here.

Clear enough dipshit?

Now, I do not give a f*** what you want to post about times when I have supposedly lied on here. We've been through this before and you were unable to differentiate between mistakes, and typos, rapidly corrected, and your modus operandi of simply lying. Repeatedly. So post what the f*** you want if it amuses you. Once again you will not be able to find anything I have ever written that comes remotely close to your continual spouting if lies and stupidity.

So where does it say he wants to destroy the Tory party? All I can see him saying is that a Tory meltdown could happen here. Where does it say that he wants to run a new right wing party? All he says is that it is possible that one could be formed.

You sir are way off the mark. You are using sensationalist journalism for your own ends. You'd have more respect around here if you were more honest like what I  am.

To avoid causing you further embarrassment I won't point out your many other 'lies'.  On two conditions. You must agree to mend your ways and issue an immediate abject apology.

[IC1967]

Still waiting.

[IC1967]

Right. You've had your chance. In the absence of an abject apology and promise to mend your ways I'm going to start taking you apart and show you up for the peddler of misinformation and liar that you are.

Question for Farage.

Over the past few years, you have claimed that if we left the EU, we could still trade with the EU, like Switzerland does. But you also want us to unilaterally withdraw from EU agreements on freedom of movement, so that we can limit EU immigration.

What do you make of the case of Switzerland then? They voted in February to abrogate the agreement that they had with the EU on freedom of movement. The EU, as a direct result, is currently withdrawing or re-evaluating a whole host of trade agreements with Switzerland. From Switzerland being included in a pan-European energy market, to the involvement of Swiss academic institutions (which are some of the very best in the world) in the Euro 80billion pot of pan-European research funding.

You reckon we can leave the EU, stop immigration and there will be no consequences except that we'll be richer? Give us a shout when you finally join us on Planet Earth.

I think I can speak for Nige and say that Switzerland is a totally different case to the UK so trying to make out that what happens to Switzerland is what awaits the UK should it pull out of the EU is a load of cobblers and is a case of you indulging in scaremongering again. You are totally wrong. For starters we are a much bigger trading partner. The Swiss have a trade surplus, we have a trade deficit. We are the EU's biggest trading partner. We are Germany's biggest trading partner. The EU gets the best of the deal by trading with the UK. Switzerland gets the best of the deal by trading with the EU.

So let's get one thing straight. We have got a lot of power when it comes to negotiating a new deal should we pull out of the EU. It is in their interests not to piss us off. Trust me they won't.

Another point. UKIP don't want to stop immigration. Another one of your lies. UKIP want to control immigration. Two completely different things.

Until we get that abject apology there will be more to come.

[coventryrover]

Oh please give us more

[knockers]

IC1967, do you live on your own? Or in your mums box room?

[jonrover]

Jonrover I don't know what you are on about as I'm sure don't other readers of this forum. So I'll say it again. UKIP exist to get us out of Europe. Their other policies won't get implemented. They come up with other policies because they are expected to by the media. The other 'policies' they come up with aren't worth too much scrutiny as they are just produced to play the politics game.

It just so happens that I agree with a lot of what they have come up with. Hopefully Labour or the Tories will nick some of their ideas and they may see the light of day.

Hmmm, lets see, first you say UKIP are a one issue party, next you say you agree with most of their policies. And now their a one issue party but have to have other policies because the media expect them to. You will make your mouth say owt!

Which one is it you thick turd? Filled your moist flannel yet?

Oh & PS. Isn't it funny all these Tory defectors crawling into the sewer to join Farage. Massive own goal with regard to winning Labour votes...vote UKIP, get a TORY! And what must the UKIP party faithful think. I'd be livid dragging in all these outsiders in.

Farage is allowing Labour to sail home in 2015 with his daft antics. GET IN!!

Did you see the reaction of the UKIP faithful when Mr Reckless walked on the stage at their conference? Obviously not. The crowd went wild. Jucyberry saw it and disapproved of the crowd's reaction. It was like a football crowd after a goal has been scored. It went on for 5 minutes. Now given the evidence, I'd be grateful if you could explain your comment 'And what must the UKIP party faithful think. I'd be livid dragging in all these outsiders in'.

You really do make yourself look daft. Don't bother replying because you won't be able to justify your outlandish, unsubstantiated, ridiculous comment.

Now, I know you are as thick as pig shit but I thought even you would have been able to work out it was a personal opinion, hence " I'd be livid dragging in all these outsiders in." If a few hundred people in an auditorium went "wild for 5 mins" because Reckless was rolled in on a fanfare then whoopy f**kin doo! Does that automatically reflect the opinion of the majority of  UKIP members? It still doesn't alter the fact that if I was a UKIP activist with desire to stand as a candidate I would be pretty cheesed off. In fact after the demo on Saturday we followed 4 delegates walking into town who were overheard saying that they might as well rejoin the Tories if any more Tories join.