Chaka Khan Trophy

[IDM]

Don't forget that many of that team haven't played much recently both as individuals and that set as a team.. I view this competition as a source of practice matches this season, so if the performance isn't great it can only get better..

[RedRover45]

Whether we like this competition or not what tonight showed. That We do not have one player in midfield who is anywhere near the first team four.
Keegan is going backwards Middleton strolls about in midfield he can't tackle as no pace his passing is poor.
Calder should be allowed to go back in the window and get a better player.
Beestin and Longbottom are not ready for the first team bench.

Then Evina and Garrett showed tonight that Mason a fill in left back as no pressure on his postion.

Therefore looking at the team tonight we have Williams or Mandeville to come off the bench and make a the difference.

Marosi was poor tonight and he should never be our first team keeper.

Let's see what happens in the January window.

Marosi was poor ?? Were we at the same match. Marosi was the reason we were only one down at half time and still in with a chance. He made three excellent saves and one world class one reminiscent of Banks. Add an excellent penalty save in the shoot out and he was voted a worthy man of the match in my opinion.

[Jersey Rover]

Been fantastic for the development of the younger players who now need to go out on loan  in January. As for strengthening, we need a couple for cover but would try and stick with what we have, look where we are and dare I say strengthen at the end of the season for the new league 1 campaign

[The Red Baron]

My mate, who was at the game, said Marosi was outstanding and kept us in it.

We definitely need a couple in for January. Hopefully we can keep Houghton and Mason. Calder can go back and we need a LB and midfielder on loan. We can then send Garratt, Beestin and Longbottom out on loan.

[Alan Southstand]

We have a very good 10 outfield players that have got us to the summit of div 2, but let's not kid ourselves, our squad is paper thin when it comes to having players capable of stepping in. Anyone who was there tonight would, hand on heart, have to admit it as it was so obvious.

The first half was as poor a performance from any Rovers team I can remember and I have witnessed some dross over the years. We can forgive the youngsters, but Keegan and Middleton are nowhere near a first team return. We simply do not have viable alternatives for any of the 4 current crop of midfielders and that is a worry going into a tough run of matches.

On the positive side, we have 2 from 3 strikers and, at a push, Wright could step in for an injury to Butler or Baudry. After that, I'm struggling to think of anyone capable. Beestin and Longbottom struggled all night and Calder was errrr Calder. We do need strengthening for the run-in and we should not underestimate that there is work to do to keep our foot on the peddle. There are no distractions now, so no excuses.

Keeper wise, I would go for an experienced (more vocal) replacement for Marosi. He has done ok but we have to be ruthless and this is a position where we can improve by having someone who is more commanding of his area. I think it would have a positive impact on the 4 defenders in front of him.

We definitely need another, for me, left sided solid midfield player, which gives us the opportunity to have Wroey and  Copps that can do the attacking cm role.

So, for me, 2 or 3 good signings in January will have us cementing our position in the top 3.

[wing commander]

Words fail me Alan...A replacement for Marosi?? Just what does he have to do?? I'm not sure what budget you think we operate but this is div2 not the championship...We are top of the league,and some players needed a run out obviously...We don't need much for me...

[Draytonian III]

Marosi was our man of the match

[roversontheup]

Marks I my MOM. Thought he made some fantastic saves.

[Alan Southstand]

Words fail me Alan...A replacement for Marosi?? Just what does he have to do?

As I said, he has to be more commanding and more vocal. Yes, I openly admit he can make some excellent saves, but he can equally drop some b0ll0cks. The goal Blackpool scored last night went right through him, for example. The lad is OK, I've already said that and you're making more of what I am saying that needs be, but the defense has come in for a right slagging so far this season and yet, Marosi is the last line of that defense. I think a bit of experience in goal will benefit the whole team, that's all I'm saying.

I'm not sure what budget you think we operate

You might ask the same question of Blackpool, then! They made 10 changes last night. Surely, we have a better budget than Blackpool, ffs!! (Did you actually go last night?) All I went for was to see, with my own eyes, just how much strength in depth we really have and, I have to say, we look weak.
I was under the impression, before last night's game, that we had a more than able replacement for Houghton, in case his loan wasn't extended. How wrong was I? Keegan was woeful last night and, alongside him, Middleton was better, but only marginally. Like I said, the young 'uns are what they are - young lads with still a lot to learn, but what was more worrying was seeing the likes of Evina hauled off at half time. He  is rapidly going backwards and that 3 year deal he was handed is now looking a bit hasty. Garrett was, dare I say it, even worse! and he too was hauled off by the manager. (I'll bet the dressing room was colourful at half time.)
These are things we need to address in January and we shouldn't be sitting on our laurels just because we're in top spot. I seem to remember, we got complacent not so long ago. IF we want to ensure that we are in one of those top 3 places in May, we need to act in January as I'll bet that 2 or 3 of the top 10 will be having a go and strengthening for the run-in. You can't stand still in football, otherwise you go backwards.

3 signings for me. You're welcome to your own opinions.

[wing commander]

Nope I didn't go last night,i've stated before I am totally against the changes made to this competition and wouldn't be attending any matches ...Although I'm not sure how that's relevant in this case....Just because Keegan and Middleton appear to have struggled last night it doesn't mean they are not good enough if required...It's not like they are young pro's who we have not seen play before..Weve all seen Keegan and Middleton play and what they can bring to the table..And whilst I have always believed Middleton was a bit overated by some, both are good enough for this league...
     For me this is were we pay for dropping the development team,as seasoned pro's out the side are not getting enough football,the idea was to arrange lots of friendly reserve games to balance this but unless they happen without our knowledge they seem to be few and far between....
   January is not the time to be buying players as clubs inflate prices or wont release players from contracts, and whilst I agree one or two would have to be moved on in the summer if we get promoted what we have is good enough to get the job done....Maybe Calder will be sent back and replaced with a young creative midfielder but that would be about it for me...
    As for Marosi,i've yet to see a league 1/2 goalkeeper who doesn't drop clangers but he has produced some big performances for us this season and is more than worth his no1 status and you've more to lose than gain if you go out and get someone else in....
   

[Bezza]

agree with your comments Alan,you have got it right for me.

[donnievic]

I also thought Marosi was outstanding last night and also though Middleton and Reston had good games,but deffo don't really Create anything when copps or Rowe doesn't play,great ball in by mason for the goal which helps when you play him in his correct position rather having to play him on the left so having to cut back in to cross

[NickDRFC]

I'm not sure how you can say that Keegan and Middleton aren't good enough going on last night's showing. If two of Coppinger, Rowe and Blair were playing last night, they'd have looked a lot better. Even if one of them was. You can't expect to sign players who are as good as Houghton and just have them sit on the bench.

If we failed to get Houghton's loan extended (I think it's until January) or had a couple of injuries to key players I'd think differently, but I'd rather see us get 1-2 better quality players who will challenge for a first team spot than shift out Evina, Keegan, Middleton and Garrett and get 4 more bodies in as replacements.

[The Red Baron]

I think people miss the point that if you take Coppinger and Rowe out of that team you take away a lot of the creativity. Keegan and Middleton are not going to substitute for that and Beestin and Longbottom are at early stages of their development.

I don't know if Middleton will kick on in the way that Mandeville has of late. He seems to have stayed in the  "promising" category for a long time. I'm sure he will have a role to play alongside the likes of Copps and Rowe this season, but I can see a time coming when the gaffer thinks he needs better.

[wing commander]

  That's why I suggested releasing Calder back to Villa and bringing in a younger creative central midfielder or even keeping Calder and bringing 1 extra body in (fairplay budget withstanding)...Keegan and Middleton are both defensive midfielders so wont be able to take up Rowe or Copps positions successfully if they get injured...However for me that's all we need..We have a good squad,good team spirit,top of the league and injury's are easing off...No need to do to much..

[IDM]

I didn't go last night but I can accept that those that did saw a poor performance from the team and some individuals, especially in the first half as echoed by DF in the DFP today.

However one poor game doesn't make a poor player.  Keegan and Middleton are probably out of form because they haven't played, Garratt too.  Evina is on and off but when in form is of value attacking, and Wright and Beestin haven't looked out of place when in the first team.  As for Marosi, he's doing well enough as our first choice IMHO.

Everyone can have a bad game or two..

Don't forget it is highly unlikely we would throw in all those players into the first 11 at the same time, so perhaps making one change to the current starting 11 isn't going to ruin our chances?  Playing Middleton or Keegan alongside the current first team would probably see a better performance than last night.  But we need to accept they won't be 100% sharp in a match immediately, as with Keegs last saturday.

For me, the left back position is a bit of a concern unless Mason stays here, Houghton must stay, and perhaps another attacking midfielder in the Rowe/Copps position - in case Gary MacSheffrey isn't ready for the team soon ish.

[Alan Southstand]

I'd go along with a lot of that IDM, but can I just clarify that my observations last night are not what I am solely making my judgements on - that would be ridiculous. For me, Calder has been utilised several times already this season and I just don't get it with him - we can and should do better in the market. So, we're not talking an additional player in the squad, rather a replacement, so no great damage to whatever the budget is (WC)?

I can accept your comment wrt Keegan and Middleton but, again, my views on both players are expressed taking that into account. I think Keegan was lucky to get another contract, as his injury record doesn't look good at all. Great if we could rely on him, but we simply can't. We do need Houghton to be retained. On Middleton, he's OK but he is not the kind of lad who is going to come off the bench in a match and change (or preferably improve) the team. For me, the jury is out on him. DF likes him and I suppose that's all that matters.

Evina is on borrowed time imho. Last night was his chance to show the manager that he really is up for it and he failed miserably on that score. Its no coincidence that things have improved since DF moved Mason over there but he's not left sided. I think he (Evina) may have a confidence issue but also, there is a definate problem with concentration and awareness - two basic commodities required of either a wing back or LB. Garratt we've hardly seen, so again, it was a chance for him last night also and all he showed the manager was that he's hardly ready to be anywhere near the first team, even at this level.

I'll re-iterate for those not getting the point - we have a good first team but when you look at the bench, that's when we start to hit the buffers. We have 1 striker option but no real (like-for-like) replacement for Marquis and we have a central defender who can cover in a match if needed. Who have we got in midfield who can and will turn a game for us? Answers on a postage stamp.

[IDM]

The frustration with players like Calder is that he can be excellent - as he was at Crewe away - but needs to play like that consistently..

[wing commander]

 

I'd go along with a lot of that IDM, but can I just clarify that my observations last night are not what I am solely making my judgements on - that would be ridiculous. For me, Calder has been utilised several times already this season and I just don't get it with him - we can and should do better in the market. So, we're not talking an additional player in the squad, rather a replacement, so no great damage to whatever the budget is (WC)

   No you are right on the midfield,Calder hasn't really kicked on and it wouldn't shock me if he was released back to Villa...So one in one out there...I'm not saying don't add a player to our current body's just not 3 or 4.....Of course that's dependent on us being able to extend the others loans...Houghton sounds positive but weve heard nothing about Mason...

[goalkick]

I'd go along with a lot of that IDM, but can I just clarify that my observations last night are not what I am solely making my judgements on - that would be ridiculous. For me, Calder has been utilised several times already this season and I just don't get it with him - we can and should do better in the market. So, we're not talking an additional player in the squad, rather a replacement, so no great damage to whatever the budget is (WC)?

I can accept your comment wrt Keegan and Middleton but, again, my views on both players are expressed taking that into account. I think Keegan was lucky to get another contract, as his injury record doesn't look good at all. Great if we could rely on him, but we simply can't. We do need Houghton to be retained. On Middleton, he's OK but he is not the kind of lad who is going to come off the bench in a match and change (or preferably improve) the team. For me, the jury is out on him. DF likes him and I suppose that's all that matters.

Evina is on borrowed time imho. Last night was his chance to show the manager that he really is up for it and he failed miserably on that score. Its no coincidence that things have improved since DF moved Mason over there but he's not left sided. I think he (Evina) may have a confidence issue but also, there is a definate problem with concentration and awareness - two basic commodities required of either a wing back or LB. Garratt we've hardly seen, so again, it was a chance for him last night also and all he showed the manager was that he's hardly ready to be anywhere near the first team, even at this level.

I'll re-iterate for those not getting the point - we have a good first team but when you look at the bench, that's when we start to hit the buffers. We have 1 striker option but no real (like-for-like) replacement for Marquis and we have a central defender who can cover in a match if needed. Who have we got in midfield who can and will turn a game for us? Answers on a postage stamp.

spot on Alan was at match last night.you have hit the nail on the head.

[Dutch Uncle]

Lund (Jan?) and McSheffrey (Feb?) should be good bench options when fit, plus McCullough (next season?)

Agree with most other comments on depth, with midfield the obvious area of concern. However we know the club can put up smokescreens, and if a pacy striker DF fancies becomes available (north of the border or elsewhere) it wouldn't surprise me if we added one.

[IDM]

We had that horrendous run of injuries going back to ATS at the last game of last season.  Yet we are top of the league.  We should, in most fixtures, be solid at the back with Alcock and Baudry now regulars.

Despite thoughts on individual players, I don't see a problem getting in one or two more - strengthen when on top etc...

[NickDRFC]

The frustration with players like Calder is that he can be excellent - as he was at Crewe away - but needs to play like that consistently..

I think every professional player is capable of an excellent game at some point - he has consistently shown he isn't good enough and he can head off for me.

Alan - I think you're being greedy. You talk about having a "like-for-like replacement for Marquis" - I'd rather Mandeville come in for him than some of the shit journeymen 6 foot 3 forwards that are knocking around in this division and would be happy/affordable to come and sit on our bench. Likewise you talk about "who have we got in midfield that can and will turn a game for us"? We've got 3, in Rowe, Coppinger and Blair, but fortunately the manager has found a way to fit all 3 in the starting line up. McSheffrey can undoubtedly do the same, if he gets fit. We are not going to get a player of their quality to come and sit on the bench. We might get some maverick who has had the odd decent game and can turn his man occasionally but is that really worth it?

I think the priorities are to get Houghton and Mason tied down for the rest of the season, make a decision on whether Garrett is good enough for now and if not get a reserve left back in, (likewise Etherdge) and get a left footed attacking player (winger/forward) to replace Calder. Other than that I would be happy (injuries between now and the end of January notwithstanding) to carry on with what we've got, although if the board did make money available to get some players who would challenge for first team spots I would hope that Fergie would spend it.

[Dutch Uncle]

I think the priorities are to get Houghton and Mason tied down for the rest of the season, make a decision on whether Garrett is good enough for now and if not get a reserve left back in, (likewise Etherdge) and get a left footed attacking player (winger/forward) to replace Calder. Other than that I would be happy (injuries between now and the end of January notwithstanding) to carry on with what we've got, although if the board did make money available to get some players who would challenge for first team spots I would hope that Fergie would spend it.

Completely agree with your assessment Nick, notwithstanding my comment on smokescreens above which would apply if the second part of your remark transpires. Given the new more restrictive loan rules, the board might just think about it - expectations are now set and potentially we have a lot to lose.

[Askern Rover]

Surely there will also be Frazer Richardson's wages freed up in January

[drfchound]

I also thought Marosi was outstanding last night and also though Middleton and Reston had good games,but deffo don't really Create anything when copps or Rowe doesn't play,great ball in by mason for the goal which helps when you play him in his correct position rather having to play him on the left so having to cut back in to cross

People need to watch Mason carefully.
He doesn't need to cut back inside to cross the ball.
He is a genuine two footed player and is more than happy to play the ball or cross it with his left foot.
As we are now our first choice back four is excellent.

[Alan Southstand]

As we are now our first choice back four is excellent.

Steady - why is the defense getting so much slagging, then? And why are we conceding so many goals. Perspective check!

Lund (Jan?) and McSheffrey (Feb?) should be good bench options when fit, plus McCullough (next season?)

Completely agree Dutch - but specifically not mentioned either as question marks remain over their respective recoveries from injury. We've already taken a risk on McSheffrey's fitness and look how that's turned out!

Alan - I think you're being greedy. You talk about having a "like-for-like replacement for Marquis"

Nick, I never said we need a like-for-like replacement for Marquis - just stating the obvious that we don't possess one. I am not being greedy at all. I just want most of our bases covered. We took our collective eyes off the ball, as it were, only last season. Are you really suggesting we do the same again? I think the Board are a bit more experienced and aware now, at least I hope they are.

[drfchound]

As we are now our first choice back four is excellent.

Steady - why is the defense getting so much slagging, then? And why are we conceding so many goals. Perspective check!






I did say "as we are now".
OK we conceded three at Stevenage but in the previous games with the current back four we conceded a goal at Exeter, a penalty against Hartlepool and a brilliant unsaveable free kick against Orient.
So just four goals in open play in four games.
Carlisle have conceded 8 in their last four games.
Plymouth 8 in their last four.

[IDM]

The goal Exeter scored was a penalty too??

[Al4475]

The thing for me re January is that I am sure that the board want to see success and will fund whatever they can with their own budgets! Personally I would like to see 4 new/resignings (which hopefully include extensions and possibly 'with a permanent option' on Mason and houghton - I've said before that I would go (if possible) for a 'better' clear number 1 to allow both etheridge and marosi to improve and another striking option! The problem is the balance and improvement of the squad so should we get promotion we really hit the ground running - I see no issue in improving on strength in depth but would prefer any signings to be of higher calibre than what's already there - ready for the next step so a whole rebuild doesn't have to occur in summer! As for who I'd go for - no idea really, I'm not paid to scout! Strengthening should mean where poss strengthening the starting XI hence strengthening the whole squad so our bench continually looks strong as well!