Peter Shore Oxford Union 1975

[tyke1962]

2 days before the 1975 referendum .

Absolutely unbelievable speech , defiantly worth 20 minutes of your time .

https://youtu.be/wd7NzQgHLn8

[Branton Red]

"It is the power of deciding your own laws which is the very heart of your own democracy."

Amen to that.

A great speech indeed.

[tyke1962]

"It is the power of deciding your own laws which is the very heart of your own democracy."

Amen to that.

A great speech indeed.

The Project Fear fraternity existed even back then too Branton from that speech along with the anti democratic make up of the then Common Market .

He could also see the path that was getting led  beyond the Common Market and what it evolved in to .

Amazing stuff .

[Glyn_Wigley]

It's a convincing argument for the break-up of the UK!

[tyke1962]

It's a convincing argument for the break-up of the UK!

Nowt to do with New Labour and devolution then ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Peter Shore went on an idiosyncratic political journey throughout his career from left wing firebrand, to imperialist  tub thumper who became a Labour friend of the nationalist strain of Tories. If you're going to sanctify the man, be aware of the big picture.

[SydneyRover]

"It is the power of deciding your own laws which is the very heart of your own democracy."

Amen to that.

A great speech indeed.

If you could reconcile your comment above with support for a government that has shown zero regard for any law period, and is prepared to trash everything in it's quest to reign over us without the use of irony Branton ...............

[drfchound]

"It is the power of deciding your own laws which is the very heart of your own democracy."

Amen to that.

A great speech indeed.

If you could reconcile your comment above with support for a government that has shown zero regard for any law period, and is prepared to trash everything in it's quest to reign over us without the use of irony Branton ...............

“Us”.   LoL.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It's a convincing argument for the break-up of the UK!

Nowt to do with New Labour and devolution then ?

What have they got to do with the philosophy that a nation has to decide all of it's own laws in order to be a democracy.

[SydneyRover]

"It is the power of deciding your own laws which is the very heart of your own democracy."

Amen to that.

A great speech indeed.

If you could reconcile your comment above with support for a government that has shown zero regard for any law period, and is prepared to trash everything in it's quest to reign over us without the use of irony Branton ...............

“Us”.   LoL.

Oh hound 3 opportunities for a rebuttal today missed, dot cotton's spirit lives on.

[tyke1962]

It's a convincing argument for the break-up of the UK!

Nowt to do with New Labour and devolution then ?

What have they got to do with the philosophy that a nation has to decide all of it's own laws in order to be a democracy.

You'd be better asking Tony Blair that question .

Clearly handing more power to Scotland , Wales and NI tends to suggest he thought along those lines .

[SydneyRover]

It's a convincing argument for the break-up of the UK!

Nowt to do with New Labour and devolution then ?

What have they got to do with the philosophy that a nation has to decide all of it's own laws in order to be a democracy.

You'd be better asking Tony Blair that question .

Clearly handing more power to Scotland , Wales and NI tends to suggest he thought along those lines .

I would have thought someone that voted to give away billions each year for the foreseeable future for some mythical freedoms would support countries that actually want real freedom and the opportunity to join the EU?

[Glyn_Wigley]

It's a convincing argument for the break-up of the UK!

Nowt to do with New Labour and devolution then ?

What have they got to do with the philosophy that a nation has to decide all of it's own laws in order to be a democracy.

You'd be better asking Tony Blair that question .

Clearly handing more power to Scotland , Wales and NI tends to suggest he thought along those lines .

That was devolution, not independence. Mind you, I'm not surprised you don't know the difference.

[Branton Red]

"It is the power of deciding your own laws which is the very heart of your own democracy."

Amen to that.

A great speech indeed.

If you could reconcile your comment above with support for a government that has shown zero regard for any law period, and is prepared to trash everything in it's quest to reign over us without the use of irony Branton ...............

I don't support the current government

[tyke1962]

It's a convincing argument for the break-up of the UK!

Nowt to do with New Labour and devolution then ?

What have they got to do with the philosophy that a nation has to decide all of it's own laws in order to be a democracy.

You'd be better asking Tony Blair that question .

Clearly handing more power to Scotland , Wales and NI tends to suggest he thought along those lines .

That was devolution, not independence. Mind you, I'm not surprised you don't know the difference.

Why's that then ?

Go on say it , I know you want to .

[SydneyRover]

"It is the power of deciding your own laws which is the very heart of your own democracy."

Amen to that.

A great speech indeed.

If you could reconcile your comment above with support for a government that has shown zero regard for any law period, and is prepared to trash everything in it's quest to reign over us without the use of irony Branton ...............

I don't support the current government

If you voted to allow johnson into power you would have known chaos came as part of the bargain and the genie will take quite some wasted years to get back in the bottle.

[Branton Red]

"It is the power of deciding your own laws which is the very heart of your own democracy."

Amen to that.

A great speech indeed.

If you could reconcile your comment above with support for a government that has shown zero regard for any law period, and is prepared to trash everything in it's quest to reign over us without the use of irony Branton ...............

I don't support the current government

If you voted to allow johnson into power you would have known chaos came as part of the bargain and the genie will take quite some wasted years to get back in the bottle.

Go back to the passage of the speech I quoted. Consider my clear opinion (not yours). Have some respect for that opinion even if you disagree with it. Then have a think as to why I couldn't possible have voted Labour in the 2019 GE.

[SydneyRover]

It's a convincing argument for the break-up of the UK!

Nowt to do with New Labour and devolution then ?

What have they got to do with the philosophy that a nation has to decide all of it's own laws in order to be a democracy.

You'd be better asking Tony Blair that question .

Clearly handing more power to Scotland , Wales and NI tends to suggest he thought along those lines .

That was devolution, not independence. Mind you, I'm not surprised you don't know the difference.

"It is the power of deciding your own laws which is the very heart of your own democracy."

Amen to that.

A great speech indeed.

If you could reconcile your comment above with support for a government that has shown zero regard for any law period, and is prepared to trash everything in it's quest to reign over us without the use of irony Branton ...............

I don't support the current government

If you voted to allow johnson into power you would have known chaos came as part of the bargain and the genie will take quite some wasted years to get back in the bottle.

Go back to the passage of the speech I quoted. Consider my clear opinion (not yours). Have some respect for that opinion even if you disagree with it. Then have a think as to why I couldn't possible have voted Labour in the 2019 GE.

"It is the power of deciding your own laws which is the very heart of your own democracy."

But you haven't got that, you have chaos, the laws that are being trashed and will be trashed are the laws preventing johnson and his party from running the UK as a fiefdom where people such as mogg rule by feeding johnson's addiction. johnson is a puppet.

These laws that you want changed, abolished or written, can you tell me what they are so I have an idea how far you are willing to go, you must have an idea if they are so abhorrent that you would  impoverish the UK 'to get it done' show me your list Branton, surely you had an idea when you voted for something so central to your belief in brexit.

https://bylinetimes.com/2022/06/22/boris-johnsons-telegraph-meetings-leave-no-paper-trail/