Flare

[Glyn_Wigley]

But while ever you talk about it on here or other social media sites you are fueling the fire.

No, it's the berks setting them off that are doing that.

[i_ateallthepies]

And the berks that are defending it.

[wesisback]

I was there today and the bell end got nothing of the treatment I would have liked to have seen him get.  He resisted restraint all the way and to say he had his neck kneeled on, I didn't see any such treatment and the steward who was trying to restrain him had plenty of girth on him yet when he was brought to his feet to be apprehended by the police he set off again with his flailing arms doing his best to keep the spectacle going.  Anybody who had his neck kneeled on by that steward wouldn't have got up asking for more.
Anyway Wesco, how do YOU know anybody kneeled on his neck? he was on the floor right under the perimeter wall where those of us who stayed in our seats couldn't possibly have seen what you describe.  Or was you the knob trying to make a name for yourself protesting at the time?

I wasn't the guy who stood up for someone being subjected to excessive force but it was thoroughly justified. I dont know what name you think he was attempting to make for himself? No doubt the same name for himself that attempting to call someone a knob on a forum would be attempting to do.
 What you would have liked to have happened is irrelevent. I'd like to see every child rapist get their genitalia removed but the laws of the land prohibit it.
The steward had no power to use such extreme force through his training nor would he have the law on his side under any other circumstance. I know what move he was operating. I've seen it used where it's needed to be used and it is always a last resort. It wasn't implemented very well, otherwise as you've mentioned, he wouldn't be getting up in a hurry. The point remains though that the situation was nowhere near at the point where it was required.

[Alickismyhero]

I don't think you are getting much support for your views Lee!!!!!!

[i_ateallthepies]

He chose to act in a way that inevitably would be met with the use of restraint techniques.  HIS CHOICE.  So, why do you choose to try to deflect the criticism to others only doing their job?  It isn't as if they just walked into the crowd and singled him out for some rough treatment is it now!

[The Red Baron]

I have to say I fail to see what fining clubs does to address the problem. There might be a case for fining the home club as they failed to prevent the flare from being brought into the ground. Though of course that would just encourage intrusive searching of all supporters, which is hardly going to improve the match day experience.

The FA would be better employed encouraging the Government and the courts to take a zero-tolerance approach. Let off a pyro in a football ground and you WILL go to jail. And you'll be banned from every ground in the country for five years. That might do something. Fining the clubs will just fill the FA's coffers.

[wesisback]

If you'd read the full thread you would know that I am in no way condoning his actions. I have no sympathy if he gets banned or faces a reprimand he deserves to face. If the flare offender gets caught I fully back anything they get also. He absolutely had to be ejected - I concur!
However kneeling on someone is not making an attempt to eject them. The lad was at no point where he needed an attempt at stopping his oxygen flow was he?
If at the point where that steward got involved, if they couldn't have ejected in the fashion they are trained to (assuming they were SIA trained) I'd suggest they were in the wrong job.
I'm not deflecting blame for what the lad has done. However the actions of that particular steward today were wrong. Very wrong.
I don't know if I'm more dismayed now by the actions or the responses from football fans on here that they think the crime matched the response.

[derbyrover]

If you'd read the full thread you would know that I am in no way condoning his actions. I have no sympathy if he gets banned or faces a reprimand he deserves to face. If the flare offender gets caught I fully back anything they get also. He absolutely had to be ejected - I concur!
However kneeling on someone is not making an attempt to eject them. The lad was at no point where he needed an attempt at stopping his oxygen flow was he?
If at the point where that steward got involved, if they couldn't have ejected in the fashion they are trained to (assuming they were SIA trained) I'd suggest they were in the wrong job.
I'm not deflecting blame for what the lad has done. However the actions of that particular steward today were wrong. Very wrong.
I don't know if I'm more dismayed now by the actions or the responses from football fans on here that they think the crime matched the response.

where's the proof the steward knelt on 'Bell end 2's neck blocking his oxygen?

Video proof?

anything really apart from his group of f**kwits crying injustice.

[Iberian Red]

I was there today and the bell end got nothing of the treatment I would have liked to have seen him get.  He resisted restraint all the way and to say he had his neck kneeled on, I didn't see any such treatment and the steward who was trying to restrain him had plenty of girth on him yet when he was brought to his feet to be apprehended by the police he set off again with his flailing arms doing his best to keep the spectacle going.  Anybody who had his neck kneeled on by that steward wouldn't have got up asking for more.
Anyway Wesco, how do YOU know anybody kneeled on his neck? he was on the floor right under the perimeter wall where those of us who stayed in our seats couldn't possibly have seen what you describe.  Or was you the knob trying to make a name for yourself protesting at the time?

I dont know what name you think he was attempting to make for himself?
 

Was it silly c@*t?

[RedRover45]

I might be putting myself out on a limb here but I am getting sick to death of hearing about these idiots smuggling in illegal flares and costing my club tens of thousands of pounds of unnecessary fines. If you want to do that much damage to my club and I presume your club, then you are not a supporter and I don't want you there.
If I see the person responsible smuggling or letting off flares at a game I will not hesitate to point you out to the nearest supervisor or police and I would urge every other right minded fan to do the same. If we stick together we can stop what it appears the authorities can't. It's our club, don't let these dicks ruin it.

[roversontheup]

I might be putting myself out on a limb here but I am getting sick to death of hearing about these idiots smuggling in illegal flares and costing my club tens of thousands of pounds of unnecessary fines. If you want to do that much damage to my club and I presume your club, then you are not a supporter and I don't want you there.
If I see the person responsible smuggling or letting off flares at a game I will not hesitate to point you out to the nearest supervisor or police and I would urge every other right minded fan to do the same. If we stick together we can stop what it appears the authorities can't. It's our club, don't let these dicks ruin it.

 

[Dagenham Rover]

I might be putting myself out on a limb here but I am getting sick to death of hearing about these idiots smuggling in illegal flares and costing my club tens of thousands of pounds of unnecessary fines. If you want to do that much damage to my club and I presume your club, then you are not a supporter and I don't want you there.
If I see the person responsible smuggling or letting off flares at a game I will not hesitate to point you out to the nearest supervisor or police and I would urge every other right minded fan to do the same. If we stick together we can stop what it appears the authorities can't. It's our club, don't let these dicks ruin it.

   again

[Rosso Rover]

I might be putting myself out on a limb here but I am getting sick to death of hearing about these idiots smuggling in illegal flares and costing my club tens of thousands of pounds of unnecessary fines. If you want to do that much damage to my club and I presume your club, then you are not a supporter and I don't want you there.
If I see the person responsible smuggling or letting off flares at a game I will not hesitate to point you out to the nearest supervisor or police and I would urge every other right minded fan to do the same. If we stick together we can stop what it appears the authorities can't. It's our club, don't let these dicks ruin it.

  yet again.

[TheFunk]

I bet it's these mindless morons who are bemoaning the lack of investment from the board as they see it.

[bpoolrover]

I thought there was 1 flare today

[Dagenham Rover]

I bet it's these mindless morons who are bemoaning the lack of investment from the board as they see it.

yep the boards to busy paying fines to the FA but I suppose that doesn't count

[POD]

This has been shown before on the forum, but It is a reminder of how dangerous flares can be.  Watch the guy on the left of the screen with the red circle round him.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CCxpGot6i1g

[Glyn_Wigley]

If you'd read the full thread you would know that I am in no way condoning his actions. I have no sympathy if he gets banned or faces a reprimand he deserves to face. If the flare offender gets caught I fully back anything they get also. He absolutely had to be ejected - I concur!
However kneeling on someone is not making an attempt to eject them. The lad was at no point where he needed an attempt at stopping his oxygen flow was he?
If at the point where that steward got involved, if they couldn't have ejected in the fashion they are trained to (assuming they were SIA trained) I'd suggest they were in the wrong job.
I'm not deflecting blame for what the lad has done. However the actions of that particular steward today were wrong. Very wrong.
I don't know if I'm more dismayed now by the actions or the responses from football fans on here that they think the crime matched the response.

If you're wanting to make proper formal representations, unfortunately you've already prejudiced your case by telling your prospective witnesses what you believe happened.

You should have asked people what they saw without planting the idea of the steward kneeling on the person concerned, and also without your verdict of what level of restraint it represented, in the minds of the people you're asking.

You don't form an opinion and get witnesses that fit to back it up, you ask witnesses what they saw and then form an opinion based on they say they saw, not the other way round. All you have done is ask for people who saw what you think you saw, which will distort the perception of witnesses. Anyone who saw the incident and genuinely didn't see anything untoward will not come forward because they will assume that they missed something and that therefore their statements would not be worth anything. That skews the evidence gathered and would be ripped to shreds by any half-decent lawyer.

[Not Now Kato]

Out if interest if anyone witnessed the apprehension or the ejection of the pitch invader, if you could drop me a PM it'd be much appreciated.

@wesco1986  I was at the game



and saw what happened.  A pillock who resisted all attempts at aprehension by the stewards and police.  I did not see anyone kneeling on his neck, all I saw was said pillock flailing his arms and legs around in an attempt to hit/kick anyone in authority.

With regards to the subject of my photograph, if anyone thinks that that sort of thing is 'clever' or 'adds atmosphere' then you're as thick as the pillock who threw it and the pillock, (same child maybe?), who ran on the pitch.

This sort of stupidity only strengthens the belief by many that football supporters are nothing but hooligans, and will almost certainly lead to tighter sanctions against us.  Us 'normal' supporters can now look forward to a stronger police presence and more thorough searches every game we go to.  All thanks to a bunch of morons who think it's big.   

[Filo]

Out if interest if anyone witnessed the apprehension or the ejection of the pitch invader, if you could drop me a PM it'd be much appreciated.

@wesco1986  I was at the game



and saw what happened.  A pillock who resisted all attempts at aprehension by the stewards and police.  I did not see anyone kneeling on his neck, all I saw was said pillock flailing his arms and legs around in an attempt to hit/kick anyone in authority.

With regards to the subject of my photograph, if anyone thinks that that sort of thing is 'clever' or 'adds atmosphere' then you're as thick as the pillock who threw it and the pillock, (same child maybe?), who ran on the pitch.

This sort of stupidity only strengthens the belief by many that football supporters are nothing but hooligans, and will almost certainly lead to tighter sanctions against us.  Us 'normal' supporters can now look forward to a stronger police presence and more thorough searches every game we go to.  All thanks to a bunch of morons who think it's big.   

It's a decent throw to get it that far onto the pitch from the stands!

[Dagenham Rover]

It didn't but  if it had hit a player/official the nutter who threw it could have been facing a murder or manslaughter charge

[Alickismyhero]

If you'd read the full thread you would know that I am in no way condoning his actions. I have no sympathy if he gets banned or faces a reprimand he deserves to face. If the flare offender gets caught I fully back anything they get also. He absolutely had to be ejected - I concur!
However kneeling on someone is not making an attempt to eject them. The lad was at no point where he needed an attempt at stopping his oxygen flow was he?
If at the point where that steward got involved, if they couldn't have ejected in the fashion they are trained to (assuming they were SIA trained) I'd suggest they were in the wrong job.
I'm not deflecting blame for what the lad has done. However the actions of that particular steward today were wrong. Very wrong.
I don't know if I'm more dismayed now by the actions or the responses from football fans on here that they think the crime matched the response.

If you're wanting to make proper formal representations, unfortunately you've already prejudiced your case by telling your prospective witnesses what you believe happened.

You should have asked people what they saw without planting the idea of the steward kneeling on the person concerned, and also without your verdict of what level of restraint it represented, in the minds of the people you're asking.

You don't form an opinion and get witnesses that fit to back it up, you ask witnesses what they saw and then form an opinion based on they say they saw, not the other way round. All you have done is ask for people who saw what you think you saw, which will distort the perception of witnesses. Anyone who saw the incident and genuinely didn't see anything untoward will not come forward because they will assume that they missed something and that therefore their statements would not be worth anything. That skews the evidence gathered and would be ripped to shreds by any half-decent lawyer.

Glynn,
I take it that your knowledge/experience of the legal system is gained from the right side of the law! I certainly wouldn't take issue with anything you said.

[graingrover]

I can't believe that nobody knows who the flare thrower  is ... do everybody a favour and denounce the criminal thoughtless idiot.

[wesisback]

If you'd read the full thread you would know that I am in no way condoning his actions. I have no sympathy if he gets banned or faces a reprimand he deserves to face. If the flare offender gets caught I fully back anything they get also. He absolutely had to be ejected - I concur!
However kneeling on someone is not making an attempt to eject them. The lad was at no point where he needed an attempt at stopping his oxygen flow was he?
If at the point where that steward got involved, if they couldn't have ejected in the fashion they are trained to (assuming they were SIA trained) I'd suggest they were in the wrong job.
I'm not deflecting blame for what the lad has done. However the actions of that particular steward today were wrong. Very wrong.
I don't know if I'm more dismayed now by the actions or the responses from football fans on here that they think the crime matched the response.

If you're wanting to make proper formal representations, unfortunately you've already prejudiced your case by telling your prospective witnesses what you believe happened.

You should have asked people what they saw without planting the idea of the steward kneeling on the person concerned, and also without your verdict of what level of restraint it represented, in the minds of the people you're asking.

You don't form an opinion and get witnesses that fit to back it up, you ask witnesses what they saw and then form an opinion based on they say they saw, not the other way round. All you have done is ask for people who saw what you think you saw, which will distort the perception of witnesses. Anyone who saw the incident and genuinely didn't see anything untoward will not come forward because they will assume that they missed something and that therefore their statements would not be worth anything. That skews the evidence gathered and would be ripped to shreds by any half-decent lawyer.

You are of course correct, Glyn. At the point where I put it on here it wasn't me directly trying to collate the information. As it stands there doesn't appear to be enough witnesses to the event, certainly no video evidence yet so as far as any formal complaint it's looking pretty thin. We all know which side of the fence the local constabulary will sit on regardless of what happened without some form of video evidence.

[Donnywolf]

... before long if this kind of thing does not STOP we will all be the other side of the fence again - with all its attendant risks i.e. Hillsborough for one.

FFS just STOP this mindless ILLEGAL act

[Glyn_Wigley]

If you'd read the full thread you would know that I am in no way condoning his actions. I have no sympathy if he gets banned or faces a reprimand he deserves to face. If the flare offender gets caught I fully back anything they get also. He absolutely had to be ejected - I concur!
However kneeling on someone is not making an attempt to eject them. The lad was at no point where he needed an attempt at stopping his oxygen flow was he?
If at the point where that steward got involved, if they couldn't have ejected in the fashion they are trained to (assuming they were SIA trained) I'd suggest they were in the wrong job.
I'm not deflecting blame for what the lad has done. However the actions of that particular steward today were wrong. Very wrong.
I don't know if I'm more dismayed now by the actions or the responses from football fans on here that they think the crime matched the response.

If you're wanting to make proper formal representations, unfortunately you've already prejudiced your case by telling your prospective witnesses what you believe happened.

You should have asked people what they saw without planting the idea of the steward kneeling on the person concerned, and also without your verdict of what level of restraint it represented, in the minds of the people you're asking.

You don't form an opinion and get witnesses that fit to back it up, you ask witnesses what they saw and then form an opinion based on they say they saw, not the other way round. All you have done is ask for people who saw what you think you saw, which will distort the perception of witnesses. Anyone who saw the incident and genuinely didn't see anything untoward will not come forward because they will assume that they missed something and that therefore their statements would not be worth anything. That skews the evidence gathered and would be ripped to shreds by any half-decent lawyer.

Glynn,
I take it that your knowledge/experience of the legal system is gained from the right side of the law! I certainly wouldn't take issue with anything you said.

While I wasn't in the police, I did at one time have power of arrest and have conducted interviews under caution, so I did have to know about PACE.

[wing commander]

If you want to play Billy big b*llocks you deserve what you get..if they hadn't been acting like tossers they wouldn't have got hurt..they had no consideration for anybody else's safety...I've none for them

[bobjimwilly]

Why are fans throwing flares and going crazy when we equalise with a scrappy goal against bottom of League 1?
I understand when people can go crazy like that with what happened at Brentford, but equalising against Crewe mid-season? Not worth getting a ban for IMO 

[Glyn_Wigley]

If you want to play Billy big b*llocks you deserve what you get..if they hadn't been acting like tossers they wouldn't have got hurt..they had no consideration for anybody else's safety...I've none for them

Or as I put it...if you want to act like a t**t, expect to get t**tted.

[Colin C No.3]

I can't believe that nobody knows who the flare thrower  is ... do everybody a favour and denounce the criminal thoughtless idiot.

If he was ejected from the ground with the aid of the police, you'd hope his 'true' identity would have been obtained before he was released. If this could be passed onto, or indeed requested by DRFC, then I've no doubt the club will be able to hand out the necessary banning order.

My money's on one of the spotty nerds who 'gather' in the far side of the West Stand, who travel away wearing Burberry as their 'club colours', whose anthem is "We're Donny Rovers & we'll do what we want...". Well you're not Donny Rovers & as Saturday showed you won't do 'what you want' without (hopefully) consequences.