Brexit deal

[The Red Baron]

I don't know if anyone else thinks this way, but it strikes me that a lot of momentum has gone out of the campaign for a second vote this week. There just don't seem enough MPs, Remain or Leave, prepared to get behind it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

Like I've said all along. It'll happen when there's no alternative. We're done way from that because May is still in head-up-arse la-la-la, "My deal is the only possible way forward" mode. Once it's clear that her deal is NOT going to pass and No Deal is taken off the table by Parliament, and it's clear that the Tory  party and DUP won't allow a GE, what possiible outcome is there but Ref2?

[Mr1Croft]

TRB

Like I've said all along. It'll happen when there's no alternative. We're done way from that because May is still in head-up-arse la-la-la, "My deal is the only possible way forward" mode. Once it's clear that her deal is NOT going to pass and No Deal is taken off the table by Parliament, and it's clear that the Tory  party and DUP won't allow a GE, what possiible outcome is there but Ref2?

I think many expected this to be the week Corbyn gets behind it after his motion of no confidence failed but given that hasn't happened, and any chance of a second referendum being passed in the commons would require the support of JC or TM it's no surprise it's fizzled outz for now.

I think JC is still holding his cards close to his chase and banking on a snap election. If/when May's deal fails to get through Parliament again but the margin of defeat is slimmer, she may be warmer towards the idea of a GE to try to bring in the number of Tory MPs to get the deal across the line.

Under normal precedents she would not even entertain the idea after she burnt her fingers calling a GE to increase her majority in 2017 but we live in unprecedented times and nothing Theresa May does now will surprise me.

I'm just taking solace in the fact that the phrase Theresa May coined in an attempt to win over the heats of Brexiteers - "No Deal is better than a Bad Deal" will be the actual scenario that will lead to Brexit not meaning Brexit after all.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The big problem is that May has turned 'creative paralysis' into a doctrine. And you know how hard it can be to make someone indoctrinated to change their mind.

[Copps is Magic]

Liam Fox must be one of the most dangerous people to our country at the moment. Fuelling the hard-brexit nationalistic rhetoric on the one hand, and doing back door preliminary trade deals that will progressively and systematically erode any form of national democratic sovereignty. And he'll gladly take a no-deal brexit to get there.

If you want post-EU Britain that just acts as a fleeting staging post for global capital and large corporations, here's your man.

https://www.indy100.com/article/jacob-rees-mogg-no-deal-brexit-eu-suspending-commons-government-sovereignty-twitter-8744311

Any another one who talks about taking back parliamentary control and then wants to suspend parliament.

[Glyn_Wigley]

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-tv-should-not-be-used-as-a-platform-for-untruths-11617815

[Filo]

We’re on the path to dictatorship

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-planners-could-use-martial-law-against-civil-disobedience-11619088

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo

Damn good job that we'll not have a No Deal Brexit-supporting then.

I wrote in here a few weeks ago that if you're going to understand the shenanigans over No Deal, it's crucial that you see it for what it is. It's about what happens to the Tory party when the grown ups in Parliament finally take control and sort the whole clusterf**k out.

The ones who will inherit the Tory party are the ones who can tell the Europhobic Tory membership, "We KNOW you wanted a clean break with Europe and we were willing to give you that. We were prepared to go with No Deal. It's THEM bas**rds over there that stopped that happening, not us. We're on your side. You and us, we'll sort out this party if we stick together and don't let them bas**rds take it over."

See it like that and it all makes sense. Don't get upset about a No Deal Brexit-supporting. It's not going to happen. Get upset about being used by these Kitsons in their power games.

[The Red Baron]

TRB

Like I've said all along. It'll happen when there's no alternative. We're done way from that because May is still in head-up-arse la-la-la, "My deal is the only possible way forward" mode. Once it's clear that her deal is NOT going to pass and No Deal is taken off the table by Parliament, and it's clear that the Tory  party and DUP won't allow a GE, what possiible outcome is there but Ref2?

I did think that having failed to get a GE that last week Corbyn might have thrown his weight behind a referendum. For me, unless the Labour leadership openly back a referendum, it isn't going to happen.

It will be interesting to see if any of the amendments to the meaningful vote take two get passed.

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

If you've accept that No Deal is a non-starter, and there is no way that May can tweak her deal to turn round a 230 vote deficit in the House, then think about where we are.

We are 61 days from Brexit Day. 32 working days in the Commons.

There is no possibile way that any alternative deal is going to be negotiated with the EU, ratified by 27 EU Govts, voted on and passed in Parliament and then the dozen or so enabling Bills put through Parliament to allow us an orderly exist on 29 March.

So we now have no option but to ask the EU for an extension of the A50 deadline (of course we won't do that immediately because the Tory party is still playing its games of chicken about who is going to get the blame for killing off No Deal, but we'll be asking for that extension before the end of next month).

But, here's where it gets interesting. The EU have said that they are open to extending the deadline, but (quite rightly) they have said they are not giving us an extension that just allows the f**king about of the past 2 years to carry on. They want a clear and unambiguous plan on what we plan to do to bring the process quickly and unambiguously to a close.

There's only one possible answer to that. We agree to Ref2.

[Not Now Kato]

Looks like some of the areas of the UK, including ours, are going to get exactly what they voted for....
 
https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-wales-cornwall-regional-funding-eu/
 

This funding loss will be most keenly felt in two regions: Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, and West Wales and the Welsh Valleys.

These are classed as ‘less developed regions’, and currently receive most of the UK’s regional funding.

Three additional areas would have been able to join them in the post-2020 period: South Yorkshire, Tees Valley & Durham, and Lincolnshire.

All five of these regions stood to receive EU support in excess of €500 or £440 per capita per year for the seven-year period.

[Sprotyrover]

I am sick of reading the posts of defeatist quislinngs on this thread. Some of you were rubbishing the Uk Fishing Industry with great gusto. A distrusting shower is what you are! The French Government has just realised the crisis i it is about to face with a no deal hard Brexit. total exclusion from Uk waters which account for nearly half of the Eu fishing grounds. Yes we do only have 12,500 fishermen but Eu fleets plunder 8 x the UK catch from our waters, 65,000 fishermen in France alone not to mention Belgium Netherlands, Denmark, Spain, now we have all seen how the French can kick off so will the Spanish and The Dutch and Belgians. It’s time to rattle a few sabres. I think Somebody quoted our fishing Industry was only worth £3.5 billion a year well when we kick some ass it will be worth £30billion a year. But in reality it is worth hundreds of billions more because we can hold The Macron Government to ransom,quickly followed by Spain ,Netherlands and Belgium the Stupid self serving euro crats from tiny states such as Luxembourg and Poland will be getting their P 45’s. within a week if we let them know what they will be in for.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Dam Busters Theme anyone...?

[hoolahoop]

Christ now I remember why I stopped visiting Off Topic - see you still have your resident lunatic  from Sprotborough with you then. Feck me he sounds like a Scottish Tory.
Quislings indeed - I suppose we are all the Norway option !

[Bentley Bullet]

I take it Sprotyrover isn't a supporter of the Britain Surrendering Together party!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Looks like some of the areas of the UK, including ours, are going to get exactly what they voted for....
 
https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-wales-cornwall-regional-funding-eu/
 

This funding loss will be most keenly felt in two regions: Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, and West Wales and the Welsh Valleys.

These are classed as ‘less developed regions’, and currently receive most of the UK’s regional funding.

Three additional areas would have been able to join them in the post-2020 period: South Yorkshire, Tees Valley & Durham, and Lincolnshire.

All five of these regions stood to receive EU support in excess of €500 or £440 per capita per year for the seven-year period.

Ni mind eh? That's £3000 per person in South Yorkshire, paid for by EU tax payers that we won't be getting. On top of the £70bn that a report today says we'd already lost by mid-2018 due to depressed economic performance since the 2016 vote.

But at least we took back control eh? And gave BB plenty of opportunities to show how witty he is. So it's not all bad.

[selby]

  Seeing as how both major political parties stated in their manifestos that they would respect the referendum result.
   If you voted in the general election for any of those parties, Did you know what you were voting for? and would you like another vote?

[selby]

  Billy stop the spin, we are net contributors to the EU, therefore you could argue we put some money in and they give us a little bit back to spend of our own British tax payers money.
  It is like asking for a fiver off a mate, buying him a pint for three quid, and keeping the change, and him thinking your doing him a favour.

[RedJ]

  Seeing as how both major political parties stated in their manifestos that they would respect the referendum result.
   If you voted in the general election for any of those parties, Did you know what you were voting for? and would you like another vote?

Oddly enough, you get a chance to vote out a party that doesn't deliver on its manifesto every five years... so should there be a vote to stop a process where we won't get what we were promised we'd be able to have by the people campaigning for it? or does that logic only work when it fits your argument.

[selby]

  Red, the question was, did you know what you were voting for in the last election?  And if not would you want to re run that election.

[RedJ]

So yes it does only apply when you feel like it, thanks for answering.

[selby]

Red, I expected better.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby

Aye. And the question is, if the UK stops paying into the EU, how much of that benefit will be spent in South Yorkshire?

The EU was planning to invest £3bn in SY over the next 7 years.

Because, under the Tories, SY has slipped back to being where it was under the previous Tory administration 20 years ago - one of the poorest regions in the EU.

You reckon this Tory Govt would invest what it saves on EU budget contributions in SY? Really? Honestly?

Turkeys and chuffing Xmas comes to mind.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh aye. And that's before you take into account that our shocking economic performance in the first 2 years since the Brexit-supporting vote has already cost us nearly NINE YEARS worth of our annual net EU budget contribution. So anything we save on the EU budget is massively outweighed by what we are already losing through depressed economic performance.

Still. Took back control, eh?

[Glyn_Wigley]

I am sick of reading the posts of defeatist quislinngs on this thread. Some of you were rubbishing the Uk Fishing Industry with great gusto. A distrusting shower is what you are! The French Government has just realised the crisis i it is about to face with a no deal hard Brexit. total exclusion from Uk waters which account for nearly half of the Eu fishing grounds. Yes we do only have 12,500 fishermen but Eu fleets plunder 8 x the UK catch from our waters, 65,000 fishermen in France alone not to mention Belgium Netherlands, Denmark, Spain, now we have all seen how the French can kick off so will the Spanish and The Dutch and Belgians. It’s time to rattle a few sabres. I think Somebody quoted our fishing Industry was only worth £3.5 billion a year well when we kick some ass it will be worth £30billion a year. But in reality it is worth hundreds of billions more because we can hold The Macron Government to ransom,quickly followed by Spain ,Netherlands and Belgium the Stupid self serving euro crats from tiny states such as Luxembourg and Poland will be getting their P 45’s. within a week if we let them know what they will be in for.

That's what happens when the UK sells their fishing quotas to foreigners instead of UK fishermen. 'Plundered'? They're only taking what they've paid for - but that doesn't sound as melodramatic or jingoistic, does it?

[selby]

  Billy where I think any money is spent by anybody is neither here or there, I am pointing out it is a myth the EU invest in projects in this country with anything other than money that we have  already contributed to the EU. Do we or do we not pay more into the Eu than we get back?
   Those blue plaques are the most expensive things we have ever bought.
   You are peddling spin.
   As for the last election, I think by the lack of answers to the Question by the serial posters, I can take it you didn't know what you were voting for.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It isn't just money we get back from the EU. It also buys us the membership of the Customs Union and Single Market too, which earns this country a lot more than the purely monetary deficit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Selby

Look at it another way.

The net EU budget contribution comes to about £150 person per year in the UK.

Had we stayed in the EU, the funding coming to South Yorkshire would have been £440 per person per year for the next 7 years.

Still, we took back control, eh?

It's truly heartbreaking that you're so insistent on not getting this.

Let me spell it out really simply.

Yes, the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget.

But we in SY are not.

We are among the poorest people in the EU.

One of the absolute priorities of the EU is to see investment going into poorer areas to bring them up to something more dignified.

Areas that get f**ked on by the market economy, and ignored by their own Governments.

That means taking net money from richer areas (like London and Barcelona and Paris and Bavaria and Milan) and giving it to poorer areas (like Doncaster).

It's precisely the opposite of what our Westminster Govt has done for 9 years, where they have sucked money out of our economy and given tax cuts to top rate tax payers. A Govt which, in it's very first month in power slashed the council budgets across the North and gave increases to places like Dorset.

It is breathtakingly self-harming for people in SY to have voted to turn this down. The fact that you've been played into doing so by people who are using you as a pawn in their power games in the Tory party, and you refuse to see it, just adds pathos to the tragedy.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Businessman: "Setting up a factory will cost me £250K a year. It will earn me £5mill a year. But I'm not going to set up a factory because I will be £250K out of pocket."

Good business?

[SydneyRover]

''Britons don’t grasp the EU’s essential motivation – a quest for the quiet life''

Maybe a little oversimplified but there is sound reasoning in the main thrust.


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