Brexit deal

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Are you two Russian bots?

No. Just normal voters who would like to see the traitors in parliament carry out the will of the people rather than fulfil their own agenda.

How do we know the will of the people hasn't changed in two years? MPs changed their minds in the space of a few weeks, so who says that 4% lead hasn't changed in over 2 years? And before you say do we keep just having vote after vote, Theresa has had vote after vote and it'll break the impasse. There is a majority against No Deal and we will see it tonight. No sensible person wants us to actually leave with no deal, they just want it on the table as a bargaining chip.

It interesting that on this forum which most of it's members are based in a very pro Brexit area are mainly remainers, however most of my mates in London which was a remain area are the polar opposite and are very much staunch Brexit.
What this situation clearly shows is that many MPs are totally out of touch with their constituents and come the day of the next election supporters of all parties/Brexit or remain opinion should remember if their MP acted in their interests.

There's a correlation between intelligence and whether you voted Brexit. People on here who can string two sentences together more than likely voted/want to remain. The people that can't spell their own name and aren't on here more than likely voted to leave. The education in our area had clearly let us down over the years.

I fundamentally disagree with this really poor generic statement, which is half the reason we're in the bloody mess we're in....

[The Red Baron]

The way I see it, the EU will allow a short extension, up to 3 months, to allow tidying up. Or they will allow a long extension, 18 months to 2 years, to allow a General Election and/or a Second Referendum. They won't move on the Withdrawal Agreement, but they might on the Political Declaration. The latter presents Labour with an opportunity to push their BINO plan.

One thing is certain: No-one, Leave or Remain, will ever trust a politician again.

[The Red Baron]

It looks like one of the amendments tabled for tonight's extension vote will call for another Referendum. I hope the Speaker accepts it because it will show how little support there is in the HoC for another public vote.

[DonnyOsmond]

The way I see it, the EU will allow a short extension, up to 3 months, to allow tidying up. Or they will allow a long extension, 18 months to 2 years, to allow a General Election and/or a Second Referendum. They won't move on the Withdrawal Agreement, but they might on the Political Declaration. The latter presents Labour with an opportunity to push their BINO plan.

One thing is certain: No-one, Leave or Remain, will ever trust a politician again.

Surely if it was only 3 month we'd be in the same position as we are now? Nothing would get through.

[The Red Baron]

The way I see it, the EU will allow a short extension, up to 3 months, to allow tidying up. Or they will allow a long extension, 18 months to 2 years, to allow a General Election and/or a Second Referendum. They won't move on the Withdrawal Agreement, but they might on the Political Declaration. The latter presents Labour with an opportunity to push their BINO plan.

One thing is certain: No-one, Leave or Remain, will ever trust a politician again.

Surely if it was only 3 month we'd be in the same position as we are now? Nothing would get through.

I think you're right. A 3-month extension without a Deal being in place is merely more can-kicking. I can't see the EU wearing it. They will offer a lengthy extension on the condition of a General Election and/ or a Referendum.

[The Red Baron]

The Peoples' Vote campaign has called for the Referendum amendment to be pulled. Labour is whipping MPs to abstain. So we won't find out how strong (or not) the feeling in the HoC is for another public vote.

[RedJ]

Why've they done this then? In case it dies on its arse and kills the campaign?

[The Red Baron]

Interesting from Billy Bragg.

https://mobile.twitter.com/billybragg/status/1106201400961314816?p=v

[The Red Baron]

Why've they done this then? In case it dies on its arse and kills the campaign?

Pretty much yes, I think they would get 200 MPs to back it. From Labour's point of view if they allowed their MPs a vote it would show they were all over the place.

[Boomstick]

Wow, do people still actually think there will be a second peoples vote?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

They don't want one, Corbyn never has and never will.

[foxbat]

Labour  members want one - so Corbyn is going to get one whether likes it or not.

[The Red Baron]

334 votes against the Referendum Amendment. That's more than half the HoC.

[foxbat]

Nevertheless, the Brexit lies are undeliverable and the People's Vote is coming.

[Boomstick]

The EU won't agree to an extension.
I think no deal is still a very real possibility.

[Ldr]

We will leave with Mays deal on  29th. Watch the news

[wilts rover]

More Labour MP's than Tory MP's voted for the govs' own motion tonight! And more Tories voted against it than for it. Wow!

[Filo]

This to me is just madness

Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay voted against the government's motion on delaying Brexit tonight, despite having commended it to MPs less than an hour-and-a-half earlier.

At the end of the debate, preceding tonight's votes, Barclay told MPs: "It is time for this House to act in the national interest. It is time to put forward an extension that is realistic. I commend the government motion to the House."

He then voted against it.

[The Red Baron]

We will leave with Mays deal on  29th. Watch the news

Highly likely, I think. It will be last minute stuff though.

[albie]

Flint and Mann were also among six Labour MPs who voted against the Benn amendment that would have given parliament further control of the Brexit process.

This is the amendment which was lost by 2 votes.

Why are they in the Labour Party?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Flint and Mann were also among six Labour MPs who voted against the Benn amendment that would have given parliament further control of the Brexit process.

This is the amendment which was lost by 2 votes.

Why are they in the Labour Party?

Because it's a broad church allowing all variety of rules (when it suits them like every party).

[BillyStubbsTears]

It is indeed a broad church.

And a forgiving one.

Jeremy Corbyn, for example, voted against the Labour whip 617 times between 1983 and 2015.

[Donnywolf]

More Labour MP's than Tory MP's voted for the govs' own motion tonight! And more Tories voted against it than for it. Wow!

I am sure I am not the only person who has lost track of the twists and turns. A couple of nights ago Tory MPs were queuing up to slate "the Deal" saying how bad it was , how it would be detrimental to x,y and z BUT how they would vote for it to to get B****t over the line in any way shape or form.

The DUP are"taking their time" to come to a conclusion - maybe to allow another Billion quid to drop their way - but how can they look at themselves in the mirror having been VEHEMENT opponents of "the Deal"
for as long as it was mooted

In fact I have been an avid viewer for the past few months but I now give it a miss - Parliament is a laughing stock imo and what irks is that when we Leave I expect it will be such a relief that nobody will hold them to account for the outrageous behaviour of both camps in the past 3 years

Government of the people, by the people and for the people ? Dont make me laugh

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

DW, part of that is the choice between deal or no deal.

I don't think the deal goes through as there are enough Tories to prevent it and with the opposition all saying no TM needs all of her party to back it.  Even if some move, enough won't.

BST, I have no real issue with members opposing the party line, that takes more guts than doing what you're told as much as it is against political convention.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP.

To some extent I agree with you. But without a degree of party discipline, Parliament becomes unmanageable and dysfunctional, as we've seen (predominantly from the Tories) for the past two months.

My point is that Corbyn has made a career out of putting his own opinion above that of the collective party decision. He has zero moral authority to criticise anyone who does not follow the whip.

[Filo]

Talking of moral’s, has anyone in the HoC got any?

[Donnywolf]

Id guess at about 10% of the MPs have

[albie]

I have no problem with people voting against the whip on a matter of conscience.

The issue here is that the Benn amendment aimed to take control from the failing May government and give it to Parliament.
By doing so, it hoped to move the debate forward on a cross party basis.

In opposing the amendment, the likes of Mann and Flint and the other 4 are saying that they support the May  government in their approach.
They presumably believe that forcing a last minute showdown between no deal and the May proposal is in the national interest.

If  you  believe the executive should be accountable to the HoC, and that Parliament should be able to over-ride poor decision making and inertia, that needs to be asserted.

If you don't believe that, then what is the point of being an opposition MP?

[Donnywolf]

... and now it looks like the DUP are going to be offered even more Money to support the "deal"

They already got a load to support the Tories to form and stay in a minority Givt but despite their outrage at the Backstop and the Border in the Irish Sea AND the possibility of return of the troubles it seems that they will take the money *

* That could have been mending potholes - recruiting more Police - funding the NHS to provide Drugs Nurses and Doctors but NO . Austerity ? Dont get me started

[DonnyOsmond]

Theresa to go down as the worst PM ever?