Brexit deal

[bpoolrover]

As it's blindingly obvious that agreement cannot be found by the politicians then a second vote with options should be had or we stay.

 6,044,432 signatures

6 million signatures or 17 million in a real vote Sydney?

[bpoolrover]

Do you think it would do any good donny? We could well be in exactly the same position as now

[DonnyOsmond]

Do you think it would do any good donny? We could well be in exactly the same position as now

Then what do we do? Just leave with no deal. Anyone who wants no deal either doesn't understand what the impacts are or is selfish, xenophobic and rich so it won't affect them.

[The Red Baron]

General election incoming?

That's one option and the Cabinet will discuss it tomorrow. But that will need an extension and I'm not sure the EU will grant it.

I'm not a betting man, but I think  "No Deal By Default" is now favourite. Unless MPs swallow hard and say they will accept May's Deal as a less worse alternative. Personally I can't see that.

PS. Having seen Anna Soubry on TV it seems that the TIG/ Tinge lot didn't vote for either the CU or CM 2.0. Talk about Hard Remain. Then she had the gall to express sympathy for Boles, who seems an honourable man. Hypocrite.

[scawsby steve]

No Deal or General Election.

Nothing else stands a chance now.

[DonnyOsmond]

General election incoming?

That's one option and the Cabinet will discuss it tomorrow. But that will need an extension and I'm not sure the EU will grant it.

I'm not a betting man, but I think  "No Deal By Default" is now favourite. Unless MPs swallow hard and say they will accept May's Deal as a less worse alternative. Personally I can't see that.

PS. Having seen Anna Soubry on TV it seems that the TIG/ Tinge lot didn't vote for either the CU or CM 2.0. Talk about Hard Remain. Then she had the gall to express sympathy for Boles, who seems an honourable man. Hypocrite.

Yeah, quite daft of TIG. They're so pro-Peoples Vote they'd rather not vote for CU and we end up with no deal.

[The Red Baron]

General election incoming?

That's one option and the Cabinet will discuss it tomorrow. But that will need an extension and I'm not sure the EU will grant it.

I'm not a betting man, but I think  "No Deal By Default" is now favourite. Unless MPs swallow hard and say they will accept May's Deal as a less worse alternative. Personally I can't see that.

PS. Having seen Anna Soubry on TV it seems that the TIG/ Tinge lot didn't vote for either the CU or CM 2.0. Talk about Hard Remain. Then she had the gall to express sympathy for Boles, who seems an honourable man. Hypocrite.

Yeah, quite daft of TIG. They're so pro-Peoples Vote they'd rather not vote for CU and we end up with no deal.

You are quite right there.

PS. Boles won't be sitting with them. He goes up even further in my estimation. A bunch of shallow opportunists.

[Filo]

How close are we to Civil unrest?

Everyone is sick to the back teeth of this

[The Red Baron]

How close are we to Civil unrest?

Everyone is sick to the back teeth of this

Don't forget this is not France, this is the UK.

As Mark E. Smith put it  "start the revolution when the pubs shut."

Being serious, it won't happen unless we either leave with no deal or Article 50 is revoked. More likely we'll go through another 1-2 years of the nonsense.

[The Red Baron]

I can kinda agree with this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1112844097033732098?p=v

[SydneyRover]

Syd that is 11 million short

Thanks Selby for providing another opportunity to show that 6,045,385 signatures is  6,045,385 signatures more than the Conbrexit team have, and not only but also according to the rules where the last vote taken counts which I assume you are a signaTORY to then this is the last vote.

There is a rumor of an idea where people will be allowed a vote that will split the country, make us 180 billion poorer within 3 years and cause absolute chaos and where a huge slice of the finance sector and the last of the manufacturing industry goes to the Europe. But I said NO, no one would be that stupid, would they?

[selby]

  Leave with a properly negotiated deal would be my preferred option, but no deal is what we probably deserve.
  And the sun will shine the day after, you will all still have to go to work, and a few days after everyone will be thinking what was all the fuss about.
  The only certain thing will be that the market makers in the city of London will have made a killing, and will be looking at the EU and if there is any weakness in its make up, probably the Mediterranean countries they will go after their scalps like a pack of Hyenas, and sod anyone else, there's money to be made.

[albie]

Just a staging post tonight.

The real action starts with the Cabinet resignations.
Likely this week, unavoidable next IMHO.

Might start after May has her 6 hour session tomorrow......6 hours with her would break most!

If May knows that division in the Cabinet is imminent, how does she plan for the breakdown in predictable outcomes that will follow on?

I reckon she will try to put her deal again, fail again, and then call a GE to break the impasse and hope the party will re-group around a new leader.

Assumes BoJo can be kept off the showdown list, clearly!

[SydneyRover]

I can kinda agree with this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1112844097033732098?p=v

It's tempting to blame both sides TRB but the only reason people want a second vote option is because everyone knows the first vote result was corrupt and all options except staying will inevitably put UK citizens in a worse position in every way. It's only the die-hards that are still screaming leave means leave, and they can't tell us what leave means.

[SydneyRover]

The SNP’s priority is to stop the Brexit chaos and the catastrophic consequences it will have on Scotland and the UK’s economy, jobs and living standards.

The public vote motion received the biggest number of votes in favour in Parliament and it is now clear that the only way to break the Brexit impasse is by bringing this back to the people – with remain on the ballot paper.

It is also welcome to see growing support across the parties for the SNP’s motion to revoke article 50 to avoid a no-deal Brexit outcome. However, the decision of the Labour leadership not to support the motion is unforgivable and a damning indictment of the party.

Given everything we now know, the best way forward to break the Brexit impasse is to put the decision back to the people in a second EU referendum – and both a referendum and revoking Article 50 must be part of the next steps in this process.

People in Scotland have been ignored throughout the Brexit process. Any pretence that Scotland is treated as an equal partner in the UK has gone out the window. Whatever happens now it is clear that the only way to properly protect Scotland’s interests is with independence.

If this means Corbyn will have go then so be it.

[SydneyRover]

  Leave with a properly negotiated deal would be my preferred option, but no deal is what we probably deserve.
  And the sun will shine the day after, you will all still have to go to work, and a few days after everyone will be thinking what was all the fuss about.
  The only certain thing will be that the market makers in the city of London will have made a killing, and will be looking at the EU and if there is any weakness in its make up, probably the Mediterranean countries they will go after their scalps like a pack of Hyenas, and sod anyone else, there's money to be made.

It would be good for the debate to expand on this Selby and tell us why your view of a rosy future should be believed over a clear majority of heads of industry and financial experts who are telling us the exact opposite.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Interesting observation from Vince cable.

TIG and several LDs voted against CU and CM2.0. Because they want Ref2.

So, had there been an option for either of those PLUS Ref2, TIG and LD would have flipped and those votes would have gone the other way.

Is that the way out?

EDIT. Scrap that. Head not screwed on. If they tagged a Ref onto the CU or CM2.0 options, a dozen or two Tory MPs would vote against it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So. To summarise.

May's deal is a non-starter.

Parliament can't agree on any alternative.

No Deal is the default, but is supported only by about 1/3rd of MPs and 1/3rd of the public and was never seriously discussed in 2016.

So there's nothing that has a democratic mandate in the House or in the Country.

Reight f**king mess young Dave tipped us into before f**king off, eh?

[SydneyRover]

So. To summarise.

May's deal is a non-starter.

Parliament can't agree on any alternative.

No Deal is the default, but is supported only by about 1/3rd of MPs and 1/3rd of the public and was never seriously discussed in 2016.

So there's nothing that has a democratic mandate in the House or in the Country.

Reight f**king mess young Dave tipped us into before f**king off, eh?

I've been reticent to put this into the mixing pot but losing 180 billion in less than three years (established fact) if this is extended out and the UK does become a financial basket case in the short term but just plain poorer in the long term it will of course hit all sectors including football.

Where will that put the lower leagues that are struggling for money now? PL teams will want more European comps to keep the money coming in but I can see a time where L1 and L2 become irrelevant to mainstream UK football and fall back into regional comps.

 6,046,003 signatures

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MShepheard/status/1112833986680840193/photo/1

Every single vote tonight would have gone through (or at least tied) if not for Labour MPs who abstained.

Shame on them.

And 10 times that shame on the ones who voted against CM2.0 and Ref2. They are tipping us perilously close to a No Deal outcome that will devastate their constituencies.

[roversdude]

Please excuse my ignorance on this but does no deal make the ‘divorce settlement’ null and void?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MShepheard/status/1112833986680840193/photo/1

Every single vote tonight would have gone through (or at least tied) if not for Labour MPs who abstained.

Shame on them.

And 10 times that shame on the ones who voted against CM2.0 and Ref2. They are tipping us perilously close to a No Deal outcome that will devastate their constituencies.

Would we not just say the same of the Tories that voted against may?

The obvious solution is perhaps a general election but the big issue is what happens if the same mps are returned?  Or what would the party policies be and would people vote purely on Brexit?

[SydneyRover]

Please excuse my ignorance on this but does no deal make the ‘divorce settlement’ null and void?

I don't think so, but we could do an Iceland and just not pay it, though things and the economic front will be so bad we'll hardly notice a mere 39 billion.

[SydneyRover]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MShepheard/status/1112833986680840193/photo/1

Every single vote tonight would have gone through (or at least tied) if not for Labour MPs who abstained.

Shame on them.

And 10 times that shame on the ones who voted against CM2.0 and Ref2. They are tipping us perilously close to a No Deal outcome that will devastate their constituencies.

Would we not just say the same of the Tories that voted against may?

The obvious solution is perhaps a general election but the big issue is what happens if the same mps are returned?  Or what would the party policies be and would people vote purely on Brexit?

If a GE fails to resolve the issues then I'm thinking the future of UK politics lies in lots of smaller parties and a coalition will run the country, the larger parties are spread to wide to cover all the bases and cannot possibly be everything to everyone.

[DonnyOsmond]

Please excuse my ignorance on this but does no deal make the ‘divorce settlement’ null and void?

We wouldn't have to pay it but if we want a future relationship with the biggest trading block in the world then not paying it's a bad idea.

[The Red Baron]

Interesting observation from Vince cable.

TIG and several LDs voted against CU and CM2.0. Because they want Ref2.

So, had there been an option for either of those PLUS Ref2, TIG and LD would have flipped and those votes would have gone the other way.

Is that the way out?

EDIT. Scrap that. Head not screwed on. If they tagged a Ref onto the CU or CM2.0 options, a dozen or two Tory MPs would vote against it.

To me, this is where they are getting it wrong. Voting for a CU doesn't rule out a Second Referendum. You should only vote against something you really don't want, eg No Deal.

[albie]

John Mann voted no to all 4.
Flint voted in favour of CU.

[DonnyOsmond]

John Mann is a w**ker.

[Not Now Kato]

And people wonder why we are where we are....
 
https://youtu.be/SmqKvuyNPA8
 

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Interesting observation from Vince cable.

TIG and several LDs voted against CU and CM2.0. Because they want Ref2.

So, had there been an option for either of those PLUS Ref2, TIG and LD would have flipped and those votes would have gone the other way.

Is that the way out?

EDIT. Scrap that. Head not screwed on. If they tagged a Ref onto the CU or CM2.0 options, a dozen or two Tory MPs would vote against it.

To me, this is where they are getting it wrong. Voting for a CU doesn't rule out a Second Referendum. You should only vote against something you really don't want, eg No Deal.

Voting for Theresa May's deal rules nothing out in future either. But it is May's deal so they wont vote for it.....

Let's be honest it May's deal goes through we likely do end up in a paralysis until a new election convenes. If anything that takes no deal off the table and not a lot more.