Brexit deal

[SydneyRover]

FoM, all these people taking jobs and annoying locals, something has to be done.

Brits abroad: how many people from the UK live in other EU countries?

1.3 million people born in the UK live in other EU countries, according to 2017 estimates from the United Nations (UN). Around 900,000 UK citizens were long-term residents in other EU countries in 2010 and 2011, according to census data across the EU collated by the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

And your point is?

But they aren't immigrants, they're "ex pats"!

[IDM]

This reminds me of the episode of Auf Wiedersehen Pet, where the hut residents voted to redecorate their spartan accommodation..

Try all had a vote and chose their preferred colour and a second choice..  they ended up with yellow, which was no one’s preference but was the largest economy choice.. so no one was happy..

And that’s in a sitcom from about 35 years ago, how the hell can’t we do it right asa country now.??

[BillyStubbsTears]

Worth a read.
https://m.facebook.com/1498276767163730/posts/2228185460839520/

If anyone in Govt is seriously suggesting to May that she go to Brussels and threaten them with a No Deal walkout, that shows how far detached from reality they are, and how they are putting the priority of limping  May's career on for another few weeks above the good of the nation.

Last 3 paragraphs though sum up the f**king shambles of this past 2.5 years.

[Filo]

Anyone with an ounce of honour would have resigned a long time agao

[Bentley Bullet]

FoM, all these people taking jobs and annoying locals, something has to be done.

Brits abroad: how many people from the UK live in other EU countries?

1.3 million people born in the UK live in other EU countries, according to 2017 estimates from the United Nations (UN). Around 900,000 UK citizens were long-term residents in other EU countries in 2010 and 2011, according to census data across the EU collated by the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

But they aren't immigrants, they're "ex pats"!

Those UK citizens living abroad were spread over Europe, mainly France, Spain and Germany. The UK had THREE TIMES that number of European foreigners solely living here!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
Stop and have a think about what you just said. There's a really, really important sub-conscious tell in there.

[Bentley Bullet]

Go on then Billy. Tell me what a really racist bas**rd I am. I'm sure some of your fans will agree with you.

[Filo]

Go on then Billy. Tell me what a really racist bas**rd I am. I'm sure some of your fans will agree with you.

I don’t believe you’re racist, in fact I agree with your opinion that a large percentage voted leave because of immigration (including me) without even thinking about any other effects of brexit

[BillyStubbsTears]

Not at all what I meant BB. Not at all. Why on earth would I call you racist when I don't think you are?

But the whole of our national discussion about Europe is shot through with this this Us and Them thing about our attitude to the rest of the EU. Like it's UK vs this monolith that is the EU. Not us trying to rub along with 27 other independent countries.

So, you compared the total number of British ex-pats living throughout the whole of the EU with the number of ex-pats of the other 27 EU states SOLELY (your word) living here.

Do you see?

I do also think that language is vitally important in discussions like this. And I note that you described British ex-pats as "citizens" while EU ex-pats were "foreigners". I'm not calling that "racist" but it does to some extent reflect the standarx of the debate in the UK. It's subtle and sub-conscious and I'm sure not deliberate. But it's something we should all be aware of.

At base, all the people we are talking about are people.

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. Do you seriously think we are any different to any other EU Country regarding an 'us and them' attitude?

I used the term UK citizens because that's what they are. They might be UK foreigners to other countries but they are UK citizens to me living abroad! Just like other countries have their citizens living abroad and EU foreigners living in their country!

Is that me being unknowingly racist then?

I gave the figures regarding the massive difference in EU foreigners living here compared to UK citizens living abroad to put some perspective on a previous post that suggested it was somewhat of a tit for tat exchange in numbers.

[Bentley Bullet]

PS. When i say 'tit for tat' I'm not referring to foreigners as 'tits' and us as 'tats'. Nor the other way round.

[BillyStubbsTears]

No BB. I don't think it's you being unknowingly racist. I thought I'd made that clear. I think it IS a subject where we need to think very carefully about how we approach it.

I guess I would though. My mother's family were economic immigrants from Ireland who came over to dig coal. My wife's father was an immigrant from Italy who came over in search of work.

So it's an issue that is close to home for me.

I entirely accept your comment on the relative numbers of ex-pats living on either side and I probably was too sensitive on that one. That's a feature of the fact that our economy is significantly stronger than the EU average. That's part of the deal and it's one that I, for one, am prepared to accept because the overall impact of our membership of the EU is net positive. And  I work in a sector that has a far higher than average number of non-UK born EU employees. They make us a stronger, richer and more resilient economy.

[DonnyOsmond]

So just to confirm you do not respect the result of REF1 and would only vote in REF2 if it allows you to get your own way regardless of what was voted for earlier.
Very interesting take on democracy you have. So despite the winning side of REF1 offering you a choice in the final outcome it is still not good enough for you. You want it all your own way or no way. How do you react when Donny get beaten, do you demand a replay every time?
In life you win some and you lose some, but then you just have to get on with it.

Well if you're comparing it to football it's 2006, you're a Juventus fan and your teams just won the league.

... But wait a minute, it turns out your campaign wasn't as honest as it first looked.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And no, I don't think we are different to other EU countries. That's kind of the point.

Issue is though, the other countries don't seem to build this up to the extent that we do.

[Bentley Bullet]

"It is a subject where we need to think very carefully about how we approach it".

BST. That's my point. Assuming the obvious and by "it" you are referring to the subject of racism, there has to be a reason why we have to be more careful of what we say these days. So much so that even the slightest twist or misinterpretation can get us in trouble. What is more sickening is the use of the race card in a totally mischievous way to the point of deformation of character in order to win political points.

Remainers have done that to death.

[BillyStubbsTears]

No BB. I'm not talking about racism. I'm talking about how we discuss immigration.

I don't by any stretch of the imagination think that everyone who has concerns about immigration is racist. I do think that the level of discussion in this country is generally neither pleasant not well-informed.

[Donnywolf]

Looks like VOTE PULLED - even after days of denying it !

[Glyn_Wigley]

This is just taking the piss now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If she's pulled the deal, the clock is ticking on her career.

If she's pulled the deal, it's because she was going to lose the vote by an amount that meant she couldn't possibly go on as PM.

If she'd lost the vote by 30-40, perversely that would have strengthened her. She'd have been able to go to Brussels and say, "just give me SOMETHING" and I'll be able to convince enough rebels to get this deal over the line.

Pulling the vote means she was expecting to lose spectacularly. Like 100+ votes. That NEVER happens to a PM on any vote, nevermind one as crucial as this.

But there's nothing the EU can cede that can possibly pull round that many rebels AND be acceptable to the other 27 EU Govts.

We're finally at the point that everyone knew we were going to get to. The situation where what the Tory party wants doesn't fit with what Europe can give. And the time has run out.

May's just playing out the last few days of her time and hoping something miraculous happens. If it does, she's gone.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oh yeah. And note.

There's nothing about what is good for the country in all this. The whole shitshow has been about sorting out the psychosis in the Tory party, and trying to eke out May's career.

An utter, unmitigated f**king shambles. They should never be allowed near power for a generation after what they have done to the country.

[Glyn_Wigley]

If I was the EU I'd tell her to feck off and stop wasting our time.

[IDM]

According to the European court this morning, the uk can revoke article 50 without needing approval from the rest of the EU..

[MachoMadness]

Should've known this was coming after they started denying it tbh.

[IDM]

And so the goat f**k keeps on rolling..  bbc reporting the £ down about half a percent to 2018 lows against € and $, due to today’s uncertainty..

[Filo]

If this was a movie, the critics would be saying it was far from reality

[Filo]

Nicked this from twitter



May-day May-day, abort abort #BrexitVote

[Boomstick]

Looking like a hard brexit is more likely by the day

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fortunately not BS. There are still grown ups in charge who will protect you from that stupidity.

[GazLaz]

Looking like a hard brexit is more likely by the day

There will be a second referendum before that happens and we all know what will happen then.

[Boomstick]

Simply will not be a second referendum.....