Brexit deal

[The Red Baron]

   He shouldn't resign simply because of the turmoil that would create in the short term above it is now...Let the people decide if they trust him to run the Country.These calls for him to resign are equally about opportunity for the Scots,Welsh and Labour.

   We can have a g/e in a matter of weeks and put an end to this one way or another..I'm tired of the lot of them,remainers smugly sitting in the house of commons claiming they are ready to get back to work with selfies..Oh Really we've had nothing but squabbling,back stabbing,treachery from the lot of them for 3 years..They've achieved absolutely nothing so the week that they have had off has made no difference...

I appreciate most of you are remainers and every little opportunity to disrupt brexit you are seizing upon to cry foul..i'm tired of every party and both sides of the brexit..So lets get it to the vote

I'm not sure that we'll get a General Election within weeks. If the hardline Remainers are able to bank an extension, especially one for more than three months, I expect they'll push for a Second Referendum before a GE. It could mean we are stuck with a zombie Parliament for up to a year.

[IDM]

   He shouldn't resign simply because of the turmoil that would create in the short term above it is now...Let the people decide if they trust him to run the Country.These calls for him to resign are equally about opportunity for the Scots,Welsh and Labour.

   We can have a g/e in a matter of weeks and put an end to this one way or another..I'm tired of the lot of them,remainers smugly sitting in the house of commons claiming they are ready to get back to work with selfies..Oh Really we've had nothing but squabbling,back stabbing,treachery from the lot of them for 3 years..They've achieved absolutely nothing so the week that they have had off has made no difference...

I appreciate most of you are remainers and every little opportunity to disrupt brexit you are seizing upon to cry foul..i'm tired of every party and both sides of the brexit..So lets get it to the vote

No it’s not about Brexit. It’s about the PM acting unlawfully.

Of course Brexit is the background, but the issue for BJ is about parliamentary procedures where he can’t be trusted..

[Not Now Kato]

This interview typifies the mess we've got ourselves into
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdHXJT_AGx4
 
And is a real world example of why important decisions should not be handed down to 'the people'.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Boris wont resign nor should he..He should call a general election and maybe this time the opposition partys might go for it..Boris/tory's v Corbyn/labour with the lib dems thrown in...That's the first vote the people should decide....

Just do a thought experiment.

Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn was PM and he'd just been found guilty by a unanimous decision in the Supreme Court of deliberately lying to the Queen in order to prevent the elected Sovereign body of the country from holding him to task while he manoeuvred to make the biggest constitutional change for more than a century (arguably 3 centuries) having himself only been elected by a vote of a bunch of extreme left activists, who constituted 1 in 350 of the entire electorate.

Just stop and ponder for 5 minutes.

Then ask yourself if you'd just shrug your shoulders and say, "Aye. No problem. He can remain as PM."

This is MASSIVE. Until very, very recently, things that weren't a fraction as serious as this would immediately end political careers. You CANNOT just turn a blind eye. The fact that we are even discussing it is terrifying in its implications for the health of our democracy.

[Not Now Kato]

Boris wont resign nor should he..He should call a general election and maybe this time the opposition partys might go for it..Boris/tory's v Corbyn/labour with the lib dems thrown in...That's the first vote the people should decide....

Just do a thought experiment.

Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn was PM and he'd just been found guilty by a unanimous decision in the Supreme Court of deliberately lying to the Queen in order to prevent the elected Sovereign body of the country from holding him to task while he manoeuvred to make the biggest constitutional change for more than a century (arguably 3 centuries) having himself only been elected by a vote of a bunch of extreme left activists, who constituted 1 in 350 of the entire electorate.

Just stop and ponder for 5 minutes.

Then ask yourself if you'd just shrug your shoulders and say, "Aye. No problem. He can remain as PM."

This is MASSIVE. Until very, very recently, things that weren't a fraction as serious as this would immediately end political careers. You CANNOT just turn a blind eye. The fact that we are even discussing it is terrifying in its implications for the health of our democracy.

I strongly suspect that, to many people, that will all depend on how the right wing media paint it tomorrow morning.

[drfchound]

Boris wont resign nor should he..He should call a general election and maybe this time the opposition partys might go for it..Boris/tory's v Corbyn/labour with the lib dems thrown in...That's the first vote the people should decide....

Just do a thought experiment.

Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn was PM and he'd just been found guilty by a unanimous decision in the Supreme Court of deliberately lying to the Queen in order to prevent the elected Sovereign body of the country from holding him to task while he manoeuvred to make the biggest constitutional change for more than a century (arguably 3 centuries) having himself only been elected by a vote of a bunch of extreme left activists, who constituted 1 in 350 of the entire electorate.

Just stop and ponder for 5 minutes.

Then ask yourself if you'd just shrug your shoulders and say, "Aye. No problem. He can remain as PM."

This is MASSIVE. Until very, very recently, things that weren't a fraction as serious as this would immediately end political careers. You CANNOT just turn a blind eye. The fact that we are even discussing it is terrifying in its implications for the health of our democracy.

BST, I am sure you will know the answer to my question.....
BJ has broken the law so what punishment will be bestowed upon him or does he walk away from this without anything being done about it?
Genuine question.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound.

He hasn't broken the criminal law so there is no legal punishment to be had.

What he has done, egged on by that maniac Cummings, is to realise how paper-thin our Constitution is, and to set about tearing it up.

Our Constitution depends on people being prepared to be reasonable. We now have someone who has contempt for that. The SC has ruled that he wasn't legally able to do what he did, but they have no power to further censure him by imposing a punishment.

It is up to US, the electorate, to pass judgement on that when the time comes.

Anyone, ANYONE who votes Tory at the next election is effectively saying that this action is OK and they approve of it.

This is WAY beyond Brexit. It is WAY beyond party politics.

Time to decide which side you are on.

[IDM]

I disagree a little there BST - yes, if the Tories don’t change and BJ is still the leader going into an election - but if they have a new leader and a clear manifesto then that’s not necessarily approving the current regime.?

[drfchound]

I disagree a little there BST - yes, if the Tories don’t change and BJ is still the leader going into an election - but if they have a new leader and a clear manifesto then that’s not necessarily approving the current regime.?

IDM, you just beat me to it.
I was going to post something similar.


BST, thanks for your response.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound/IDM

Yes of course. I should have made that clear.

[IDM]

I would label myself as a-political and I distrust most of them regardless of what party they represent.

Next election however I will probably look closely at their manifestos and see who is the best option. 

[Glyn_Wigley]

Boris wont resign nor should he..He should call a general election and maybe this time the opposition partys might go for it..Boris/tory's v Corbyn/labour with the lib dems thrown in...That's the first vote the people should decide....

Just do a thought experiment.

Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn was PM and he'd just been found guilty by a unanimous decision in the Supreme Court of deliberately lying to the Queen in order to prevent the elected Sovereign body of the country from holding him to task while he manoeuvred to make the biggest constitutional change for more than a century (arguably 3 centuries) having himself only been elected by a vote of a bunch of extreme left activists, who constituted 1 in 350 of the entire electorate.

Just stop and ponder for 5 minutes.

Then ask yourself if you'd just shrug your shoulders and say, "Aye. No problem. He can remain as PM."

This is MASSIVE. Until very, very recently, things that weren't a fraction as serious as this would immediately end political careers. You CANNOT just turn a blind eye. The fact that we are even discussing it is terrifying in its implications for the health of our democracy.

I strongly suspect that, to many people, that will all depend on how the right wing media paint it tomorrow morning.

Two column inches, column four, page 15.

[wilts rover]

30% of the population think the Supreme Court was wrong.

I wonder how many of them also think that we should be leaving the EU to regain sovereignty so that we can 'take back control'. Clearly the wrong type of sovereignty and the wrong type of control...

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1176503707741097985

[BillyStubbsTears]

I wonder if YouVov should have a vote on whether Newton's Laws of Motion apply at sub-relativistic velocities? Maybe folk know better than the experts on that an all.

We've gone haven't we. There's a massive chunk of the population who don't care about anything else but their side winning. Decency, honesty, integrity, respect for the law. None of it matters so long as you win.

I wonder what the correlation is between that 30% and the proportion of the population who think it's ok to dive to win a penalty if it helps you win the match?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Was the Supreme Court ruling effectively a VAR decision?

[Glyn_Wigley]

30% of the population think the Supreme Court was wrong.

I wonder how many of them also think that we should be leaving the EU to regain sovereignty so that we can 'take back control'. Clearly the wrong type of sovereignty and the wrong type of control...

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1176503707741097985

It's depressing how few people in this country have any idea how the Constitution they live under actually works, and apparently no interest in finding out. There's even been a few of them in this forum today.

[BigH]

The supreme irony in all this is that Corbyn is held up by Johnson (of all people) as 'the bogeyman'.

Now, I have no time for Corbyn - I think he's useless - but let's be clear, there is only one 'bogeyman' who is p**sing all over this country's rulebook and going all Venezuelan on us and that is Johnson.

It really is like the end of a whodunit when the penny drops that the real crook was the guy who was so awfully charming in the opening scene.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'd be fascinated to know what Cummings is thinking tonight.

Behind that exterior look of a man who is taking on far more than he can handle and is stressed to breaking point, I suspect he's shitting himself that he's taken on more than he can handle and he's stressed to breaking point.

[Bentley Bullet]

Yep, we want someone calm and collected like Jezza in power!

[SydneyRover]

I'd be fascinated to know what Cummings is thinking tonight.

Behind that exterior look of a man who is taking on far more than he can handle and is stressed to breaking point, I suspect he's shitting himself that he's taken on more than he can handle and he's stressed to breaking point.

I can see Cummings now as he dusts off his hands thinking well that went well, what's next.

[SydneyRover]

Remember brexit?

''The BBC’s Europe editor, Katya Adler, has posted a good thread on Twitter about the latest thinking within the EU as to what will happen with Brexit. She says EU sources think the chances of a deal at the October summit are now “pretty much nil”. Here are the first two tweets, but it is worth reading the whole thing (which you can do by clicking on the first post).

    katya adler (@BBCkatyaadler)

    As EU watches open-mouthed the scenes in Westminster.. in Paris, Berlin, Dublin, Brussels and the rest - leaders are asking: What Next?? And since no one knows for sure, there’s some contingency planning going on /1
    September 26, 2019

    katya adler (@BBCkatyaadler)

    Chances of getting a deal with UK by the EU leaders’ mid Oct summit were never seen here to be high. Now contacts describe the likelihood as « pretty much nil ». Remember EU governments would need to see the text of a legally operable alternative to the backstop b4 the summit /2
    September 26, 2019''

https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1177145687114440704?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[DonnyOsmond]

Our countries f*cked.

[scawsby steve]

Our countries f*cked.

You've only just found out? It's been f*cked for 30 years.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

We should plainly name this the Brexit non deal, there is never going to be one.

[wilts rover]

I actually think the chances of a deal have gone up in the past couple of weeks, even if that is from 0% to 10%.

There is going to be a GE in the next few months. Old 'die in a ditch' Johnson has staked his reputation and chance of 5 years of power on leaving the EU by 31st October. Farage is waiting with a shovel at the side of the ditch if he doesn't do it. The only possibilty he has of leaving on 31st October is with a deal.

Therefore the chances of a deal have gone up.

[Donnywolf]

Is it time for the Poll in OP to be done again so we can see now how the discussions on here have impacted on people ?

Would it still be roughly the same or a radical change in one or either way
Come on Branton Rover - "hit" us again please

[Bentley Bullet]

The original vote says 106 members voted, but if you add up the numbers they total 108. Dodgy dealings?!!

[albie]

I actually think the chances of a deal have gone up in the past couple of weeks, even if that is from 0% to 10%.

There is going to be a GE in the next few months. Old 'die in a ditch' Johnson has staked his reputation and chance of 5 years of power on leaving the EU by 31st October. Farage is waiting with a shovel at the side of the ditch if he doesn't do it. The only possibilty he has of leaving on 31st October is with a deal.

Therefore the chances of a deal have gone up.

Yes, I think that's right.

Johnson will pivot back to the May deal if prevented from defaulting to a no deal exit.
This is why he is desperate for a new session of parliament...it can then be re-introduced.

He will need to tempt Labour rightists to support him, people like Kinnock and Flint, so the focus if on whether Labour will whip to policy or allow a free vote.

Any subsequent GE will then be badged up as the "keeping his word" project, despite the May deal being unsatisfactory to many.

[foxbat]

Bloody hell - even Rachel Johnson just now on R4 actually saying BJ under pressure from individuals who have invested billions
in shorting the £ on assumption of no deal - she actually said that, out and proud
#failedstate

[i_ateallthepies]

The original vote says 106 members voted, but if you add up the numbers they total 108. Dodgy dealings?!!

I think we can account for at least one of those, BB.  First you voted Remain, then got titty on and voted Leave.