Brexit deal

[SydneyRover]

So it's a bit like saying last July that more Rovers' season tickets would have been sold had it not been for the likelihood of a disastrous season brought on by the appointment of Grant McCann.

Had season tickets been undersold as a result McCann's appointment it would have been merely because of his appointment and not his actual effect on the team.

Who knows, with the extra backing of the doubters perhaps the extra season ticket sales would have made him even more successful.

I believe many remainers want Britain to fail so they can say 'I told you so'. If people had started from a position of wanting Britain to succeed rather than rubbishing the nation at every verse end, and telling us how much we need the EU things may have been better. The EU have sensed the weakness and division in Britain and used it to their advantage.
The result should have been accepted and everyone should have pulled together, instead of the treacherous sabotage of the likes of the vile Gina Miller and her big business cronies. Such people do not care a jot about the British working class.

NAIL ON HEAD .

Remoaners bleet on about treason. But I say it's THEM that's being treasonous by trying to derail brexit. Much more damaging.

I said along time ago, this is a time when we should all pull in the same direction for the good of our country.

Good of the country?

Every single economic forecast says that Brexit will damage the country.

Surely if we're pulling together for the good of the country, then we should all be pulling for Remaining in the EU.

No, we voted to LEAVE. it's HAPPENING.
the sooner remainers accept this, then we can all pull in the same direction for the good of our country.

So tell what you know bs, when, how and why or have you been in negotiations with Axeholm?

[Glyn_Wigley]

BB

Are you suggesting that an organisation of nearly 500 million should make fundamental changes because of the attitudes of 17 million people, many of whom don't actually seem to know what it does?

Don't take this the wrong way, but who are the likes of Malta, Luxembourg, Lithuania and the rest to dictate too us?
Some pay in and some take out...

I got the impression you thought every country was equally under the jackboot of the fascist bullyboys that are the EU?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
What changes would you like the EU to make?

[IDM]

So it's a bit like saying last July that more Rovers' season tickets would have been sold had it not been for the likelihood of a disastrous season brought on by the appointment of Grant McCann.

Had season tickets been undersold as a result McCann's appointment it would have been merely because of his appointment and not his actual effect on the team.

Who knows, with the extra backing of the doubters perhaps the extra season ticket sales would have made him even more successful.

I believe many remainers want Britain to fail so they can say 'I told you so'. If people had started from a position of wanting Britain to succeed rather than rubbishing the nation at every verse end, and telling us how much we need the EU things may have been better. The EU have sensed the weakness and division in Britain and used it to their advantage.
The result should have been accepted and everyone should have pulled together, instead of the treacherous sabotage of the likes of the vile Gina Miller and her big business cronies. Such people do not care a jot about the British working class.

NAIL ON HEAD .

Remoaners bleet on about treason. But I say it's THEM that's being treasonous by trying to derail brexit. Much more damaging.

I said along time ago, this is a time when we should all pull in the same direction for the good of our country.

Good of the country?

Every single economic forecast says that Brexit will damage the country.

Surely if we're pulling together for the good of the country, then we should all be pulling for Remaining in the EU.

No, we voted to LEAVE. it's HAPPENING.
the sooner remainers accept this, then we can all pull in the same direction for the good of our country.

This debate here isn’t about “we voted to leave - end of” though, it’s about how we make the leaving actually work..

It’s not about the overal principle of leaving the EU, but all the arrangements for practical issues..

Staying in the EU would have retained order, clearly not to just enough of the electorate’s dislike, but order and an understanding of where we are at..

Leaving, as it is now, is chaos..  did the leave voters want chaos? 

We already lost one PM to this debacle and in all honesty we should lose another..

Don’t get me wrong, I like anarchy in the uk, but only the song.!

[Filo]

Imagine if the French Government had behaved like our Government over the last two years, it would n’t be just Paris rioting

[Bentley Bullet]

BST. I'd like an Australian style points system where we prioritise people who benefit us most.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So you want the EU to do away with freedom of movement?

[Axholme Lion]

An interesting read:https://briefingsforbrexit.com/a-letter-to-remainers-by-dr-graham-gudgin/

[Bentley Bullet]

So you want the EU to do away with freedom of movement?

Do I? Read my post again.

[Axholme Lion]

Heard this on radio 4 this morning, unfortunately did not catch the name of the chap speaking but he suggested a way forward which would maybe be acceptable to all and break through the current stalemate
He suggested a second referendum, but only a referendum on how we leave.
The first referendum result stands and we still leave, however the second one is a decision between no deal, deal, etc. Maybe a way forward, as at the moment no-one is happy, at least this way everyone thinks they are gaining something?
Stands back and prepares for verbal assault.

[Boomstick]

Heard this on radio 4 this morning, unfortunately did not catch the name of the chap speaking but he suggested a way forward which would maybe be acceptable to all and break through the current stalemate
He suggested a second referendum, but only a referendum on how we leave.
The first referendum result stands and we still leave, however the second one is a decision between no deal, deal, etc. Maybe a way forward, as at the moment no-one is happy, at least this way everyone thinks they are gaining something?
Stands back and prepares for verbal assault.

Cracking idea, let's see the remainers moan about that

[Axholme Lion]

Heard this on radio 4 this morning, unfortunately did not catch the name of the chap speaking but he suggested a way forward which would maybe be acceptable to all and break through the current stalemate
He suggested a second referendum, but only a referendum on how we leave.
The first referendum result stands and we still leave, however the second one is a decision between no deal, deal, etc. Maybe a way forward, as at the moment no-one is happy, at least this way everyone thinks they are gaining something?
Stands back and prepares for verbal assault.

Cracking idea, let's see the remainers moan about that

They will...

[Glyn_Wigley]

Heard this on radio 4 this morning, unfortunately did not catch the name of the chap speaking but he suggested a way forward which would maybe be acceptable to all and break through the current stalemate
He suggested a second referendum, but only a referendum on how we leave.
The first referendum result stands and we still leave, however the second one is a decision between no deal, deal, etc. Maybe a way forward, as at the moment no-one is happy, at least this way everyone thinks they are gaining something?
Stands back and prepares for verbal assault.

Cracking idea, let's see the remainers moan about that

Will you still call it the 'will of the people' when the number of spoilt ballot papers outweighs the non-spoilt ones?

[Axholme Lion]

So just to confirm you do not respect the result of REF1 and would only vote in REF2 if it allows you to get your own way regardless of what was voted for earlier.
Very interesting take on democracy you have. So despite the winning side of REF1 offering you a choice in the final outcome it is still not good enough for you. You want it all your own way or no way. How do you react when Donny get beaten, do you demand a replay every time?
In life you win some and you lose some, but then you just have to get on with it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's hard work BB.

If you want controls in immigration from the EU then yes, you want an end to freedom of movement.

[Glyn_Wigley]

So just to confirm you do not respect the result of REF1 and would only vote in REF2 if it allows you to get your own way regardless of what was voted for earlier.
Very interesting take on democracy you have. So despite the winning side of REF1 offering you a choice in the final outcome it is still not good enough for you. You want it all your own way or no way. How do you react when Donny get beaten, do you demand a replay every time?
In life you win some and you lose some, but then you just have to get on with it.

I respect the result of any vote. Until it gets superceded. Just like every other vote we hold in this country.

Having said that, as the Tories 'won' the last General Election, would you respect the next General Election result if the only options then allowed on the ballot paper were Conservative and the DUP?

[Axholme Lion]

So just to confirm you do not respect the result of REF1 and would only vote in REF2 if it allows you to get your own way regardless of what was voted for earlier.
Very interesting take on democracy you have. So despite the winning side of REF1 offering you a choice in the final outcome it is still not good enough for you. You want it all your own way or no way. How do you react when Donny get beaten, do you demand a replay every time?
In life you win some and you lose some, but then you just have to get on with it.

I respect the result of any vote. Until it gets superceded. Just like every other vote we hold in this country.

Having said that, as the Tories 'won' the last General Election, would you respect the next General Election result if the only options then allowed on the ballot paper were Conservative and the DUP?

I thought your lot said it was a once in a lifetime vote?

[Donnywolf]

I would say count the Votes of the 1975 Referendum first where 66% voted to Remain and only 33% voted to Leave (including me). Only those still living would count

That result has not been respected by (mainly) Conservative MPS - but even though I lost on that occassion I respected the fact that 66% to 33% was indeed a huge majority

However times change - people die - new Voters come along - in fact new Voters have come along since the 2016 Vote - and of course Tory Leavers have never respected the 1975 Result and eventually got their way and got a Second Referendum

For me - I dont give a s**t what happens now but the one thing I do despair at is people like May and Rudd and Lidington and lots of ordinary people just like me chorusing the line "we must respect the Result of the Referendum" or saying "you lost get over it" without a trace of irony about 1975 *

* I voted the wrong way then but it still rankles me because it is still just brushed aside as though it was so far back in history like the Domesday Book or Magna Carta or the Wars of the Roses that it has no validity whatsoever - when in fact it was just over 40 years since

[Glyn_Wigley]

So just to confirm you do not respect the result of REF1 and would only vote in REF2 if it allows you to get your own way regardless of what was voted for earlier.
Very interesting take on democracy you have. So despite the winning side of REF1 offering you a choice in the final outcome it is still not good enough for you. You want it all your own way or no way. How do you react when Donny get beaten, do you demand a replay every time?
In life you win some and you lose some, but then you just have to get on with it.

I respect the result of any vote. Until it gets superceded. Just like every other vote we hold in this country.

Having said that, as the Tories 'won' the last General Election, would you respect the next General Election result if the only options then allowed on the ballot paper were Conservative and the DUP?

I thought your lot said it was a once in a lifetime vote?

'My lot'? I never said that. Perhaps if that statement had been the subject of a referendum that it won then it might have some validity! But then, I know that any vote only lasts until it's superceded.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I would say count the Votes of the 1975 Referendum first where 66% voted to Remain and only 33% voted to Leave (including me). Only those still living would count

That result has not been respected by (mainly) Conservative MPS - but even though I lost on that occassion I respected the fact that 66% to 33% was indeed a huge majority

However times change - people die - new Voters come along - in fact new Voters have come along since the 2016 Vote - and of course Tory Leavers have never respected the 1975 Result and eventually got their way and got a Second Referendum

For me - I dont give a s**t what happens now but the one thing I do despair at is people like May and Rudd and Lidington and lots of ordinary people just like me chorusing the line "we must respect the Result of the Referendum" or saying "you lost get over it" without a trace of irony about 1975 *

* I voted the wrong way then but it still rankles me because it is still just brushed aside as though it was so far back in history like the Domesday Book or Magna Carta or the Wars of the Roses that it has no validity whatsoever - when in fact it was just over 40 years since

I thought that vote was a 'once in a lifetime' vote though? I remember it and I'm still alive.

[BillyStubbsTears]

AL

YOUR lot said repeatedly during the campaign that Brexit would mean we'd be like Norway and Switzerland. And that we'd be £350m/week better off. And that we held all the cards in negotiations. And that 80 million Turks were about to descend on the UK.

Here's a thought. Why don't we put to one side what anyone said in 2016 and start thinking like grown ups about where we are now?

[Bentley Bullet]

It's hard work BB.

If you want controls in immigration from the EU then yes, you want an end to freedom of movement.

I want controls In the freedom of movement. Don't you?

[Glyn_Wigley]

It's hard work BB.

If you want controls in immigration from the EU then yes, you want an end to freedom of movement.

I want controls In the freedom of movement. Don't you?

In the same way women can be slightly pregnant, no doubt.

'You can have Freedom Of Movement, but only the Freedom to do what you're told.'

[Axholme Lion]

AL

YOUR lot said repeatedly during the campaign that Brexit would mean we'd be like Norway and Switzerland. And that we'd be £350m/week better off. And that we held all the cards in negotiations. And that 80 million Turks were about to descend on the UK.

Here's a thought. Why don't we put to one side what anyone said in 2016 and start thinking like grown ups about where we are now?

Look, I know I come over over the top on here, but i'm only taking the wee wee (most of the time ), but I think brushing aside a referendum held just two years ago is a bit strong, and in my opinion comes over as 'We'll keep voting until we get the right result'. It's all a bit banana republic.
The result of REF1 must be upheld or millions such as myself would not bother taking part in the democratic process any longer. Is that really what we want? In all votes there are winners and losers, I believe the idea on REF2 being about how we leave would help bring together both sides of the argument and help heal the rift in the country. There you have it, AL the voice of reconciliation. Both sides give something, both sides get something. You can't say fairer than that. Next problem please? I ought to be in government except i'm not bent enough.

[Bentley Bullet]

Do you mean as opposed to heavily pregnant?

[Glyn_Wigley]

AL

YOUR lot said repeatedly during the campaign that Brexit would mean we'd be like Norway and Switzerland. And that we'd be £350m/week better off. And that we held all the cards in negotiations. And that 80 million Turks were about to descend on the UK.

Here's a thought. Why don't we put to one side what anyone said in 2016 and start thinking like grown ups about where we are now?

Look, I know I come over over the top on here, but i'm only taking the wee wee (most of the time ), but I think brushing aside a referendum held just two years ago is a bit strong, and in my opinion comes over as 'We'll keep voting until we get the right result'. It's all a bit banana republic.
The result of REF1 must be upheld or millions such as myself would not bother taking part in the democratic process any longer. Is that really what we want? In all votes there are winners and losers, I believe the idea on REF2 being about how we leave would help bring together both sides of the argument and help heal the rift in the country. There you have it, AL the voice of reconciliation. Both sides give something, both sides get something. You can't say fairer than that. Next problem please? I ought to be in government except i'm not bent enough.

If a Parliament composed of MPs elected in 2017 - AFTER the referendum - vote down Brexit, shouldn't the 2017 General Election result be 'respected' more than a vote that took place before it?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Do you mean as opposed to heavily pregnant?

You tell me, you're the one that thinks mutually exclusive things can co-exist.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
Then you want the EU to remove one of the key pillars of the Single Market, right?

[Axholme Lion]

AL

YOUR lot said repeatedly during the campaign that Brexit would mean we'd be like Norway and Switzerland. And that we'd be £350m/week better off. And that we held all the cards in negotiations. And that 80 million Turks were about to descend on the UK.

Here's a thought. Why don't we put to one side what anyone said in 2016 and start thinking like grown ups about where we are now?

Look, I know I come over over the top on here, but i'm only taking the wee wee (most of the time ), but I think brushing aside a referendum held just two years ago is a bit strong, and in my opinion comes over as 'We'll keep voting until we get the right result'. It's all a bit banana republic.
The result of REF1 must be upheld or millions such as myself would not bother taking part in the democratic process any longer. Is that really what we want? In all votes there are winners and losers, I believe the idea on REF2 being about how we leave would help bring together both sides of the argument and help heal the rift in the country. There you have it, AL the voice of reconciliation. Both sides give something, both sides get something. You can't say fairer than that. Next problem please? I ought to be in government except i'm not bent enough.

If a Parliament composed of MPs elected in 2017 - AFTER the referendum - vote down Brexit, shouldn't the 2017 General Election result be 'respected' more than a vote that took place before it?

But that's two different votes on two different things.
You may have had labour voters who voted leave in the referendum but also voted for JC in the election because of his social policies etc. I can't see how you can connect the two votes.

[Bentley Bullet]

BB
Then you want the EU to remove one of the key pillars of the Single Market, right?

I think the lack of control of immigration was the main reason why the majority voted to leave.

Don't you want any sort of control on immigration?