Brexit deal

[Glyn_Wigley]

Go on then BS.

How do we proceed from here?

Not "what do you want to happen?" "What, practically CAN happen?"

Renegotiate with the EU (probably won't happen) or persuade MPs it's the only deal we will get .

And when they inevitably fail? What will you do then?

Wait and see. It's not failed yet

Wow, what a plan. Forgive for being underwhelmed. As useless as May is, even she knows the value of having a contingency plan. But not you, apparently.

It's not failed yet? Yes it has - the EU aren't going to renegotiate and the Commons aren't going to vote for the deal. Now what?

[drfchound]

I see that the opinion on here is now 53.7% in favour of a second referendum to possibly overturn the Brexit vote.

[Filo]

The Tories are running scared, they have issued a 3 line whip all week

[The Red Baron]

The Tories are running scared, they have issued a 3 line whip all week

I dare say they are worried about being ambushed by a No-Confidence vote. Although Corbyn seems loathe to push that particular button. Tactically I can see his point- if there's one thing that will unite the Tories it's a No-Confidence motion. On the other hand, the country is crying out for some leadership.

[Filo]

The Tories are running scared, they have issued a 3 line whip all week

I dare say they are worried about being ambushed by a No-Confidence vote. Although Corbyn seems loathe to push that particular button. Tactically I can see his point- if there's one thing that will unite the Tories it's a No-Confidence motion. On the other hand, the country is crying out for some leadership.

Timing is everything, and at the minute no one is sure where the DUP lie

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

The Tories are running scared, they have issued a 3 line whip all week

I dare say they are worried about being ambushed by a No-Confidence vote. Although Corbyn seems loathe to push that particular button. Tactically I can see his point- if there's one thing that will unite the Tories it's a No-Confidence motion. On the other hand, the country is crying out for some leadership.

Timing is everything, and at the minute no one is sure where the DUP lie

Wherever is best for them as always.

I'm not really sure where any party lies.  Tories are a mess, labour critical but what policy? He lib dems are probably most clear but easy to say when you have zero power.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

By the way she's done the right thing cancelling the vote.  She had no chance to win it so why bother? Equally nobody will know why she accepted a deal nobody wanted.

[Filo]

By the way she's done the right thing cancelling the vote.  She had no chance to win it so why bother? Equally nobody will know why she accepted a deal nobody wanted.

Totally un democratic, cancelling the vote, 4 days of debating down the pan, plus the £100k of public money spent on social media in the last week

[Donnywolf]

The Tories are running scared, they have issued a 3 line whip all week

I dare say they are worried about being ambushed by a No-Confidence vote. Although Corbyn seems loathe to push that particular button. Tactically I can see his point- if there's one thing that will unite the Tories it's a No-Confidence motion. On the other hand, the country is crying out for some leadership.

Timing is everything, and at the minute no one is sure where the DUP lie

Wherever is best for them as always.

I'm not really sure where any party lies.  Tories are a mess, labour critical but what policy? He lib dems are probably most clear but easy to say when you have zero power.

.... and they have Zero power because they got Votes totalling 2,415,916 (7.9% of the total Votes and got 8 Seats or 1.2% of the Seats in Parliament)

Contrast that with Labour who got 9,347,273 Votes (30.4% of the total votes just about 4 times as many as Libs - but got 232 Seats or 35% of the Seats in Parliament)

... and worst of all The DUP who have T May over a barrel - and screwed massive comcessions out of her to prop up this shambles of a Govt ?

Votes 184,260 just 0.6% of the popular vote which gave them 8 Seats same as the Libs - for the same 1.2% of the Seats available, Enough to prop up Maybot

PR needs to come and I hope it comes soon after this omnishambles

[wilts rover]

I'm not really sure where any party lies.  Tories are a mess, labour critical but what policy? He lib dems are probably most clear but easy to say when you have zero power.

Ahem. Did you miss the fact that the party that has consistently stated that it wanted to remain in Europe lost 10% of its MP's last week when one of them resigned the whip so as to be able to vote for May's Brexit deal? How sick must he be today at destroying his political career over something that wont now happen!

[wilts rover]

The Tories are running scared, they have issued a 3 line whip all week

I dare say they are worried about being ambushed by a No-Confidence vote. Although Corbyn seems loathe to push that particular button. Tactically I can see his point- if there's one thing that will unite the Tories it's a No-Confidence motion. On the other hand, the country is crying out for some leadership.

Timing is everything, and at the minute no one is sure where the DUP lie

Wherever is best for them as always.

I'm not really sure where any party lies.  Tories are a mess, labour critical but what policy? He lib dems are probably most clear but easy to say when you have zero power.

.... and they have Zero power because they got Votes totalling 2,415,916 (7.9% of the total Votes and got 8 Seats or 1.2% of the Seats in Parliament)

Contrast that with Labour who got 9,347,273 Votes (30.4% of the total votes just about 4 times as many as Libs - but got 232 Seats or 35% of the Seats in Parliament)

... and worst of all The DUP who have T May over a barrel - and screwed massive comcessions out of her to prop up this shambles of a Govt ?

Votes 184,260 just 0.6% of the popular vote which gave them 8 Seats same as the Libs - for the same 1.2% of the Seats available, Enough to prop up Maybot

PR needs to come and I hope it comes soon after this omnishambles

Be very careful what you wish for Wolfie. In the 2015 GE UKIP won 12.5% of the vote. Under PR that would have given them about 70 MP's.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Wilts

And so they should have had.

Our electoral system is an outrage against democratic principles in a non-binary system and cannot be defended by anyone who isn't happy with the fact that a party can win effectively unfettered power with the votes of no more than 37-38% of those cast and 25% of the electorate.

It is particularly outrageous for a party which stands a lot going way from the political centre of gravity to win power like that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm not really sure where any party lies.  Tories are a mess, labour critical but what policy? He lib dems are probably most clear but easy to say when you have zero power.

Ahem. Did you miss the fact that the party that has consistently stated that it wanted to remain in Europe lost 10% of its MP's last week when one of them resigned the whip so as to be able to vote for May's Brexit deal? How sick must he be today at destroying his political career over something that wont now happen!

In the case of Labour Wilts, I think you're confusing "Leadership" with "Party". Or even "Leader's Office" with "Pretty much everyone else in the party".

I understand your confusion though, given that Corbyn has spent a lifetime saying the membership should determine policy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JasonCowleyNS/status/1072189546211753984

Amen to that.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I'm not really sure where any party lies.  Tories are a mess, labour critical but what policy? He lib dems are probably most clear but easy to say when you have zero power.

Ahem. Did you miss the fact that the party that has consistently stated that it wanted to remain in Europe lost 10% of its MP's last week when one of them resigned the whip so as to be able to vote for May's Brexit deal? How sick must he be today at destroying his political career over something that wont now happen!

Yes, I don't see every single speck of news and right now there's lots of it.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JasonCowleyNS/status/1072189546211753984

Amen to that.

Indeed, of any potential leader he's the worst of them.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

That bas**rd, more than anyone, tipped us into this hole.

He was the most dangerous of politicians.  A brilliant communicator who could whip up fervour, but who believed in nothing but his own ego and ambitions. He is the sort of politician who shows up all the weaknesses of democracy. How people who don't really engage in the topics can be misled by a Kitson who comes across as a bit of a lad.

And when push came to shove, he wasn't even capable of clinching the deal that was the whole point of his manoeuvring: getting himself to be PM. So he's f**ked the country and not even got what he wanted.

I hope the bas**rd spends all eternity being buggered by the three headed hound of Hell.

[IDM]

Snapping on your rubber gloves already, are you, BST.?

[SydneyRover]

Great resources these two brexit threads although there is no reason not to combine them, thanks for all the informed comments it takes a lot of the hard work out of catching up if I'm too busy to read the press.

[Boomstick]

Go on then BS.

How do we proceed from here?

Not "what do you want to happen?" "What, practically CAN happen?"

Renegotiate with the EU (probably won't happen) or persuade MPs it's the only deal we will get .

And when they inevitably fail? What will you do then?

Wait and see. It's not failed yet

Wow, what a plan. Forgive for being underwhelmed. As useless as May is, even she knows the value of having a contingency plan. But not you, apparently.

It's not failed yet? Yes it has - the EU aren't going to renegotiate and the Commons aren't going to vote for the deal. Now what?

The EU will negotiate on certain issuee, and the commons can be persuaded. Because if that doesn't happen, it's a hard brexit.

To me it's the EU that are failing in keeping the 6th largest economy in their flawed political union.

[IDM]

b*llocks..

It’s the UK wanting to leave their club, so why shouldn’t we have to respect their terms.??

I can’t see a hard brexit, the government will delay article 50 until they can wrangle a better leave deal or if not there will eventually be another referendum, which remain will win because there is likely to be no realistic brexit outcome, so the government can turn wash their hands of the own thing..

[SydneyRover]

Go on then BS.

How do we proceed from here?

Not "what do you want to happen?" "What, practically CAN happen?"

Renegotiate with the EU (probably won't happen) or persuade MPs it's the only deal we will get .

And when they inevitably fail? What will you do then?

Wait and see. It's not failed yet

Wow, what a plan. Forgive for being underwhelmed. As useless as May is, even she knows the value of having a contingency plan. But not you, apparently.

It's not failed yet? Yes it has - the EU aren't going to renegotiate and the Commons aren't going to vote for the deal. Now what?

The EU will negotiate on certain issuee, and the commons can be persuaded. Because if that doesn't happen, it's a hard brexit.

To me it's the EU that are failing in keeping the 6th largest economy in their flawed political union.

If the EU improve the deal they will make more problems for themselves as they will upset the remaining 27 nations plus there may be some nation that also have uninformed people that may start to make brexit noises.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Go on then BS.

How do we proceed from here?

Not "what do you want to happen?" "What, practically CAN happen?"

Renegotiate with the EU (probably won't happen) or persuade MPs it's the only deal we will get .

And when they inevitably fail? What will you do then?

Wait and see. It's not failed yet

Wow, what a plan. Forgive for being underwhelmed. As useless as May is, even she knows the value of having a contingency plan. But not you, apparently.

It's not failed yet? Yes it has - the EU aren't going to renegotiate and the Commons aren't going to vote for the deal. Now what?

The EU will negotiate on certain issuee, and the commons can be persuaded. Because if that doesn't happen, it's a hard brexit.

To me it's the EU that are failing in keeping the 6th largest economy in their flawed political union.

Ah, the old 'ignore reality and cross my fingers and hope' plan, eh?

The EU have already said they are not renegotiating, and May knows the Commons can't be persuaded hence postponing the vote whilst crossing her fingers and hoping.

And the Commons as it is will revoke Article 50 rather than have a no deal Brexit.

As for the EU, it's us that's stuck two fingers up to them, not the other way round. They also know we ain't going to be the 6th largest economy for very long after Brexit!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BS

Again.

WHAT issues do you want us to renegotiate with the EU?

You don't want the PM to go to Brussels and say, "Let's have a chat about stuff and see what we can change that nobody's thought of in the past 2 years" do you?

[MachoMadness]

Leadsom today openly questioning the impartiality of the Speaker of the House. Do any of these Brexiters have any concept of hypocrisy at all? You say you want to take back control, and then you attack Parliament, the Speaker, and the Lords when they don't let you run roughshod over British institutions.

[Donnywolf]

.... and they forget the irony of The (then) Speaker Betty Boothroyd (who was Labout MP for West Brom - and had to give that up as she became Speaker) had to use her Casting Vote when a crucial part of the Maastricht Vote in 1993 was tied.

That must have been a real gut wrencher for her as she had to Vote "against" her own Party and lots of minor Parties and thus Vote with the Tories.

All I see is them making The Speaker a "scapegoat" for their own inadequacies

[foxbat]

more groundless claims from Brexit fans.
what evidence is there that he EU is a 'flawed' political union ?
I think the UK fits that description better at the moment.

WhenBrexit is cancelled, the sensible majority will pretend, with relief, that the entire embarrassing spectacle never happened. And the minority can have their "treachery" narrative which, frankly, is all they ever really wanted anyway.
The delusion, exceptionalism and outright stupidity just never ends #r4today

[bobjimwilly]

Leadsom today openly questioning the impartiality of the Speaker of the House.

another sign of desperation by the government. No doubt "someone" from May's office discussed this with "someone" from Leadsom's office, which has lead to this being mentioned in an interview.

[Glyn_Wigley]

.... and they forget the irony of The (then) Speaker Betty Boothroyd (who was Labout MP for West Brom - and had to give that up as she became Speaker) had to use her Casting Vote when a crucial part of the Maastricht Vote in 1993 was tied.

And you've forget I've already told you once she didn't use her casting vote in that way - it is the convention for ANY Speaker to cast a vote to pass something - whatever it is - to progress so that MPs aren't denied the opportunity to debate it and vote on it further. It's part of Parliamentary procedure.

EDIT: What's ironic, exactly?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

more groundless claims from Brexit fans.
what evidence is there that he EU is a 'flawed' political union ?

I suspect the forthcoming treatment of France may well answer that - we will see!

The EU is nothing close to perfect and has many flaws.  Just because Brexit is not smooth it doesn't mean the EU is now perfect.

Interesting that the SNP may now call the no confidence vote - I suspect that's what Corbyn wants - lose (which they most likely will) it wasn't him, win he may well gain!